Is Diesel being rebranded at PTT stations?

[AndyAndyAndy]

Yesterday I was given this paper. It seems like a regular Diesel is being rebranded as Diesel B7. And Diesel B10 as Diesel? Is that it? That's confusing.

 

I have Toyota Hilux and I was always buying Diesel, so it means I will have to switch to Diesel B7 now?

 

 

 

[stouricks]

My Hilux Vigo seems OK on B10

 

[fredob43]

I for 1 will not be using PTT anymore. I put a post it the other week about the drop in power when using PTT Premium Ver Shell V power. Now I see that their premium is B7 Premium what's going on??? Question Have they changed the price.

[steve187]

 i am running b10 in my 2.4 triton, will be confusing unless all companies change to the same rebranded names, if so that means will have to ask for diesel,

I just found a link to the unmentionable newspaper from June 2019, that says all companies rebranding b10 as diesel from 22nd November when B7 will be phased out

[AndyAndyAndy]

Now I have to buy Diesel, B7 or B10??? ????????????

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, fredob43 said:

Question Have they changed the price.

I have been using the B10 - not sure why - that was what there was... and it seemed a good bit cheaper... fill up for 960 baht... performance still seems about the same... [50+ mg of viagra and I am fine] 

[BillyBobzTeeth]

I've been using B20

( 80% diesel 20% biodiesel from crude palm oil) 

slightly cheaper than B10 in my Nissan Navara for over a year and no problems. 

I like the saving too ????

[TPUBON]

I have been using B 20 from PT. It is now gone and replaced with B 10. I also noticed that PTT has also done away with B 20, at least in the Ubon area. My truck is rated B 20 is ok to use. Asked Toyota about using B 10 and was told don't do it. Can or will cause engine problems. It could void the warranty. He said use B 20. He didn't seem to realize that B 20 is disappearing.

 

This is from the European Automobile Manufactures Association. Toyota Motor Corporation: Apart from vehicles fitted with a specific ‘B10’ fuel identifier, all models from brands Toyota and Lexus are not compatible.

Edited September 21, 2020 by TPUBON
More information

[Deli]

Me no understand... Old Diesel engines now need B7 or B7 premium ? What about all the old and very old Diesel engines used for boats, once they will stop selling B7 ? World has gone totally insane now with theiur green rubbish thinking

[fredob43]

41 minutes ago, TPUBON said:

This is from the European Automobile Manufactures Association. Toyota Motor Corporation: Apart from vehicles fitted with a specific ‘B10’ fuel identifier, all models from brands Toyota and Lexus are not compatible

When I got my new Tuna from Toyota. They gave me a chitty (That they were paying for) for a full tank of fuel, told me to put in Premium diesel. Why would they tell me to put premium in if they didn't think the car would run better. Now I'm left with Buddha knows what??? Not put any fuel in for some time, then it was PTT premium. Think it'll have to be Shell V power. That's if they haven't changed that who knows.

[sangtip2]

30 minutes ago, Deli said:

Me no understand... Old Diesel engines now need B7 or B7 premium ? What about all the old and very old Diesel engines used for boats, once they will stop selling B7 ? World has gone totally insane now with theiur green rubbish thinking

Is all diesel "Bio" now ??    Does anybody stills have "Diesel" ??

[KhunBENQ]

 

1 hour ago, TPUBON said:

I have been using B 20 from PT. It is now gone and replaced with B 10. I also noticed that PTT has also done away with B 20, at least in the Ubon area. My truck is rated B 20 is ok to use. Asked Toyota about using B 10 and was told don't do it. Can or will cause engine problems. It could void the warranty. He said use B 20. He didn't seem to realize that B 20 is disappearing.

Extremely confusing and exactly against the flow.

Lost in translation or totally clueless Toyota staff?

The less "bio" (B) the less problems to be expected with older engines.

Since when have you been using B20? It's just a few months that it has been introduced and seems most owners are afraid to use it although it is the cheapest.

Done away? No, introduced.

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by KhunBENQ

[DUNROAMIN]

Read an article some time ago that plain old regular diesel was being phased out in the next couple of years, a new biodiesel (diesel blended with alternative oils) mix will replace the old diesel. A bit like how ULP went with Ethanol, now E20. Over time you will see premium fuels disappear as world fuel reserves dwindle away, maybe not in my lifetime. I had up until 2 months ago an old Toyota mighty X I used for hardware haulage, decided to sell now, as the new diesel fuels coming into the market may be a concern for older engines, however, I think any diesel motor built after 2000 should be OK with new fuels. I am not an expert here just saying. I am sure there are plenty of retired mechanics out there with the correct knowledge.

[KhunBENQ]

8 hours ago, AndyAndyAndy said:

Yesterday I was given this paper. It seems like a regular Diesel is being rebranded as Diesel B7. And Diesel B10 as Diesel? Is that it? That's confusing.

I understand the same. The simple term "Diesel" now always B10.

Seems they are confident that all engines that ran on B7 can now use this B10 stuff.

(I am not a Diesel expert)

[Mama Noodle]

Went through the same mess last week at PTT. I always religiously got their "Diesel" now its bio blends. 

 

Naturally the pump hands were trying to get me to get the premium blends but couldn't tell me why. 

 

If no other option, get B7. Id stay away from B10 unless the engine specifically states its ok, otherwise you may run into emissions control issues after a few years, especially if its a new vehicle with tight emissions controls. 

[Mama Noodle]

2 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

I understand the same. The simple term "Diesel" now always B10.

Seems they are confident that all engines that ran on B7 can now use this B10 stuff.

(I am not a Diesel expert)

 

I spent a few hours reading about this, and the consensus is that B7 is safe in all engines but B10 is not, and it largely depends on the age of the engine and the emissions control. 

 

But it really is deceptive the way they took the original "diesel" tag and made it "B10". 

 

B7 should have been "diesel" 

[Mama Noodle]

Quote

In that communication (https://www.acea.be/publications/article/vehicle-compatibility-with-new-fuel-standards) ACEA stated that B7 diesel fuel can be used in all diesel vehicles. That remains the case today and, in general, most diesel fuel (general diesel and proprietary diesel fuel offered by many fuel suppliers) that is sold in public filling stations for use in cars, vans and heavy-duty vehicles contains close to 7 %vol FAME (B7).

 

However, through a flexibility in the EU Fuel Quality Directive, France has decided to permit the sale of B10 diesel fuel in its territory and the French national fuel law has been changed to permit the sale of diesel fuel containing maximum 10 %vol FAME ('B10'). At the same time, France has made sensible changes to address concerns that higher FAME diesel fuel will result in vehicle operational concerns, especially in colder conditions.

 

While all ACEA members accept B7 diesel without question, the use of B10 diesel presents issues of compatibility with vehicles, especially the more modern ones with more sophisticated emission control equipment. Accordingly, ACEA has decided to issue this B10 compatibility list so that customers facing a choice at diesel pumps in France are aware if their vehicle can use B10 or not.

https://www.acea.be/publications/article/b10-diesel-fuel-vehicle-compatibility-list

[KhunBENQ]

Not sure how much sense it makes to look at European or other foreign markets.

There is a list from the Energy Departement.

In Thai only and not quite "elegant".

https://www.doeb.go.th/2017/WebB10/IndexB10.html

 

For a popular model like Toyota Hilux Vigo (2004 to 2015) there is unconditional OK.

For the motor numbers (1KD-FTV, 2KD-FTV) there are also statistics about the improvement of PM2.5 and "smoke" at another site.

 

Another list in Thai which I can't comment:

https://www.doeb.go.th/data/bio/total_B10_B20.pdf

There I see a remark regarding B20:

"If the temperature is below 16 ° C on a regular basis, seek further advice from a workshop".
Under 16 C? Not affecting many in Thailand

Edited September 21, 2020 by KhunBENQ

[Mama Noodle]

32 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Not sure how much sense it makes to look at European or other foreign markets.

 

In my opinion its more reliable to look at what the European markets say because most of the cars we all drive are also sold there and their studies are more reliable. 

 

There a push and pull going on between the palm oil lobby with environmentalists vs manufacturers and what they advise. Generally, B7 is acceptable in all conditions and in all road vehicles but manufacturers drop short of giving the "OK" to B10. This is my interpretation. 

 

Thailand is the worlds 3rd largest palm oil manufacturer so naturally they will want to boost that sector - obvious potential bias. 

 

Is B10 "safe" - debatable especially considering long term. Is B7 safe? By most accounts, yes. I filled up with B10 the other day, no issues but I was confused by new pump tags. Ill stick to B7 until there's no choice, then B10 if I have to. 

[KhunBENQ]

2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

In my opinion its more reliable to look at what the European markets say because most of the cars we all drive are also sold there and their studies are more reliable. 

Just look at the topic of climate/temperatures ("winter diesel") and you know what I mean.

And the Japanese manufactures (trucks assembled in Thailand) have a close look on the fuel market here.

[Mama Noodle]

2 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Just look at the topic of climate/temperatures ("winter diesel") and you know what I mean.

And the Japanese manufactures (trucks assembled in Thailand) have a close look on the fuel market here.

 

Toyota Thailand says this, but im still gonna stick as close as possible to what the engine was designed to run on. Ive got a 2017 TRD Fortuner but Ill give it a pass. If I was to buy a 2020 or later model, id probably go for B10 or B20

 

Quote

Mr. Vudhigorn added that “Toyota pays attention to environmental care and has been strongly determined to being part of the effort to reduce air pollution. As such, it has produced a number of products that are compatible with B20 Biodiesel with the following details. 
     
       1) Hilux REVO and Fortuner vehicles with the production years from 2015-present can accommodate the use of B20 Biodiesel. 

       2) For Hilux VIGO and Fortuner vehicles with the production years from 2011-2015, if there is the need for the consistent use of B20 Biodiesel in the areas with regular temperatures of lower than 16 degrees Celsius, please seek prior advice from Toyota service centers. 
     
       3) For Toyota Hilux and Toyota Fortuner that were produced before 2011, it is not recommended to use B20 Biodiesel. 

https://www.toyota.co.th/en/news/gOe91vOP

[thailand49]

I got a Toyota Hilux 2018 to be honest have no idea when I purchased it nothing was said just went in and told to pull up to the Diesel pump then one day pull up all there had was B10 since then I just thought they changed the name to B10 been using it since. Since first using B10 I've never noticed any problems or power difference so I be worried?

[rambling]

11 hours ago, fredob43 said:

I for 1 will not be using PTT anymore. I put a post it the other week about the drop in power when using PTT Premium Ver Shell V power. Now I see that their premium is B7 Premium what's going on??? Question Have they changed the price.

 

Does Shell not use any % of biodiesel in their VPower? I don't see any information about this on their website, so it's impossible to know if they're using B7 + additives and call it VPower Diesel as far as I can see.

 

 

[rwill]

bah, are they going to have different grades of electricity once most of the vehicles start going that way....

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, rambling said:

 

Does Shell not use any % of biodiesel in their VPower? I don't see any information about this on their website, so it's impossible to know if they're using B7 + additives and call it VPower Diesel as far as I can see.

 

 

I haven't a clue what Shell put in??? All I know is I always put premium Diesel in my lump. And V power gives a bit more get up and go than PTT premium. I'm waiting to give V/P another try, but I still have over 1/2 a tank of PTT left from the last fill up.  

[blackcab]

All diesel in Thailand sold for the purpose of transport has had a minimum of 3 per cent blend of biodiesel added for several years now. Biodiesel is manufactured from the fruit of the palm oil tree. The Ministry of Commerce has regularly changed the blending ratio to 5 per cent (B5) or 7 per cent (B7) biodiesel in previous years to respond to the palm oil stockpile in Thailand.

 

When there is little excess palm oil, the blending ratio was 3 per cent. When there was an over supply of palm oil, the blending ratio was 7 per cent. Essentially, the motorist subsidised the palm oil farmers by soaking up excess production of palm fruits.

 

Now, there are B10 and B20 products (with a 10 per cent and 20 per cent palm oil content). Again, it is the palm oil farmers that are being supported by ensuring an even higher usage of the oil that is crushed from their palm fruit bunches.

 

While the government might want an even higher blending ratio, they have to onboard the large vehicle manufacturers, who in turn have to guarantee the performance of their engines for years into the future. At the minute it would appear that B20 is the point of equilibrium between the vehicle manufacturers and the government.

[rambling]

8 hours ago, fredob43 said:

I haven't a clue what Shell put in??? All I know is I always put premium Diesel in my lump. And V power gives a bit more get up and go than PTT premium. I'm waiting to give V/P another try, but I still have over 1/2 a tank of PTT left from the last fill up.  

From the horse's mouth:

 

"Thank you for interesting in Shell products, According to your question,  We are  writing to let you know about shell v power information as follow  :  Shell V power Diesel – is shell's new oil formula. 
Contains components of Diesel Fuel 93% and Biodiesel(B100) 7% which can help to clean the ID valve and Oil nozzle which is the key components in the fuel supply system.
Shell V power Diesel is  the fuel that delivers the best performance from Shell , with dynaflex technology, restoring your vehicle's engine to its full estimation."

 

So V-Power Diesel is a B7 + additives as was suspected.

 

I used to put V-Power on alternate fill ups but not too long ago they canceled the normal B7 and they're consistently more expensive on the premium. I switched to Esso premium and Bangchak B7. The latter is surprisingly good in terms of mileage.

 

 

 

 

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, rambling said:

used to put V-Power on alternate fill ups but not too long ago they canceled the normal B7 and they're consistently more expensive on the premium. I switched to Esso premium and Bangchak B7. The latter is surprisingly good in terms of mileage.

Thanks for the info. I have always put premium in my lump. Regardless of what Shell put in I still get more sharpness from the engine. Never worry about economy as my 2.8 Tuna is great for that. On a run it's returning 6.1lt = 100km. Not bad for a tank. And miles better than my last 3lt Tuna that was around 11lt =100km. 

Cant get Esso where I live it's PTT or Shell.

As I have said I have loads of the PTT stuff in my tank once nearly empty I'll fill up again with Shell V and see if the sharpness comes back???

 

To give you an idea I have 3 setting on the gear box Eco/Normal/Sport. I always have it in Eco mode but to get the same sharpness as I get from V power I have to put it in normal mode. But it does rev more & use more fuel. Seems the extra cost levels out in the end. Might even be better.

Edited September 22, 2020 by fredob43

[Sam Lin]

On 9/21/2020 at 7:32 PM, rambling said:

Bangchak B7. The latter is surprisingly good in terms of mileage.

I've found the same, Bangchak diesel b7 seems to be noticably better for mileage.

[DavisH]

4 hours ago, Sam Lin said:

I've found the same, Bangchak diesel b7 seems to be noticably better for mileage.

The last time I checked, only bangchak and ptt premium diesel are designed for euro 5 spec vehicles.  I use ptt in my crv diesel as its emission system requires euro 5. The one time I used regular ptt I found the acceleration was more sluggish. Other companies diesels/premium diesels are designed for euro 4 vehicles or lower.