Extension of stay granted at Chonburi Immigration

[KhunFred]

My original visa was a Non Immigrant O visa, granted in 2015, based on retirement. I have less than a thousand baht in a Thai bank. I have no lump sum of 800 thousand baht. Nearly ALL my money is in a bank in the United States. My monthly income is close to 80 thousand baht. My 90 day report was due on the 20th of this month, but there is no indication that this was done for me. I suppose I can expect a fine of 2000 baht in December when I report.  I have no understanding of the process I just went through, unless it was "buying privilege" as one board member put it. The 15 thousand baht fee was advanced to me by the agent, who "financed" it through my girlfriend. I will pay her the fee in a couple of payments. How do these deals go through, despite all the protestations from Thai Immigration??  Everything declared as "impossible" by Thai Immigration and TVF just went through without a hitch. The stamp is official, the signature of the officer matches the previous ones in my passport. straightforward visa process of the Philippines is going to be a relief as soon as I can move.

[jackdd]

You did what immigration wants you to do, pay an agent so that they get a backhander, thus you got the VIP treatment.

The problem is that the more people give in to this, the more they will tighten the rules for legit applicants, to make even more money.

[tonray]

5 hours ago, KhunFred said:

straightforward visa process of the Philippines is going to be a relief as soon as I can move.

Skipping out before paying GF the 15 k ?

[KhunFred]

8 hours ago, tonray said:

Skipping out before paying GF the 15 k ?

Absolutely not. The 15 k was a loan. I always pay.

[KhunFred]

How is a 70 year old with an income of nearly 80 thousand baht a month, NOT an "honest" applicant? I don't have 800 k to sit around in a Thai bank. I LIVE off my monthly income. Since I showed up at Immigration, I appeared "in person". The "list price" of 1900 baht is not available unless you have an income letter. Americans and British don't get those anymore.  Bribery is the only option they leave many of us. They want the wealthy (who will never move here) rather than pensioners on a modest income. I am merely confused at their public statements, which contradict what they actually do.

Edited September 22, 2020 by ubonjoe
removed quote of a removed post

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, KhunFred said:

How is a 70 year old with an income of nearly 80 thousand baht a month, NOT an "honest" applicant? I don't have 800 k to sit around in a Thai bank. I LIVE off my monthly income. Since I showed up at Immigration, I appeared "in person". The "list price" of 1900 baht is not available unless you have an income letter. Americans and British don't get those anymore.  Bribery is the only option they leave many of us. They want the wealthy (who will never move here) rather than pensioners on a modest income. I am merely confused at their public statements, which contradict what they actually do.

Where has the option of showing 65,000 baht per month into a Thai bank gone?

[KhunFred]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Where has the option of showing 65,000 baht per month into a Thai bank gone?

ALL my money needs to be in my American bank account to pay the bills I owe. Credit card companies do not seem to accept payments from Bangkok Bank.

[zoza]

It has changed a lot i can remember when they just handed the money to the IM O, with every body just

carrying on with their stuff, and a girl would go to the bank and give the bankbook to the client, i suppose there was Agents then but i don't think you got the adds like ''15k baht and 2 photo's plus passport and any visa anywhere in Thailand '' all over facebook and other social media in Thailand, all since mobile phones became a must have. the only ''crack down'' i have ever seen is the ones to make

sure the Foreigner' pays via their Agent partner's.

[jacko45k]

23 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

ALL my money needs to be in my American bank account to pay the bills I owe. Credit card companies do not seem to accept payments from Bangkok Bank.

Then sadly you do not really have 80,000 baht of available income if you have to service debt back home. You may be honest but do not qualify.... and an agent to get a retirement extension would seem to be best for you until you can pay off the debts.

Edited September 22, 2020 by jacko45k

[KhunFred]

35 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Then sadly you do not really have 80,000 baht of available income if you have to service debt back home. You may be honest but do not qualify.... and an agent to get a retirement extension would seem to be best for you until you can pay off the debts.

I don't have 80 thousand baht of "available income", anyway, if I have to use my income to live on. Nowhere in the rules does it say anything about "availability". Money is used to live on, that includes paying any debts that you accrue.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I don't have 80 thousand baht of "available income", anyway, if I have to use my income to live on. Nowhere in the rules does it say anything about "availability". Money is used to live on, that includes paying any debts that you accrue.

The requirement is 800,000  in the bank or 65,000 money transferred into Thailand to live off (or combination)..... it would seem counter-productive to maintain debt where you do not even live. Is the interest rate high?.... I know UK credit cards usually take very high levels. 

You  actually said

3 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I LIVE off my monthly income.

and I interpreted that it was all spent over here in Thailand, my error.

[Bender Rodriguez]

20 hours ago, KhunFred said:

My monthly income is close to 80 thousand baht.

but you cannot even pay 15k for an agent ... strange story

[heist]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Where has the option of showing 65,000 baht per month into a Thai bank gone?

That's what I'd like to know. When I went to my local IO yesterday to get a 60 day extension I asked about the monthly income method and was told 'solly cannot, only 400k'

[KhunFred]

4 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

but you cannot even pay 15k for an agent ... strange story

While it is counterproductive to maintain debt (500 USD per month in my case). I had only a limited amount of time to get out of the United States. I was forced into retirement a year early and was about that far from being debt free. Not long after I got here in 2015, they decided that only wealthy farangs deserved to live here. That situation and sickness, compounded my problems. Bottom line: don't come here unless you are a millionaire. At least I will be able to buy medical insurance in the Philippines.

[JusticeGB]

The money has to actually be transferred to a Thai bank or it's not recognized as income for Immigration Visa purposes. Then your bank certifies the money has been transferred from abroad and that the monthly amounts exceeded 65,000 baht. If you draw money from an ATM machine directly from your home bank account you're also getting very poor exchange rates. Your only choice is to use an agent unless you want 800k earning 1% interest. 

[KhunFred]

37 minutes ago, JusticeGB said:

The money has to actually be transferred to a Thai bank or it's not recognized as income for Immigration Visa purposes. Then your bank certifies the money has been transferred from abroad and that the monthly amounts exceeded 65,000 baht. If you draw money from an ATM machine directly from your home bank account you're also getting very poor exchange rates. Your only choice is to use an agent unless you want 800k earning 1% interest. 

Supposedly, the agent transfers money into your account to satisfy requirements, but I checked daily. My balance did not change for the duration of the time my passport was at IO. So much for the mythology of money needing to be transferred to a Thai bank.  IO is not even consistent with its own rules. TIT.

[topt]

37 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Supposedly, the agent transfers money into your account to satisfy requirements, but I checked daily. My balance did not change for the duration of the time my passport was at IO. So much for the mythology of money needing to be transferred to a Thai bank.  IO is not even consistent with its own rules. TIT.

Sounds to me like you are being very naive or venting - if so fine.

However the "agent" facilitation has been talked about at some length in various threads for some time. 

Even people who have no interest in using them (like me) know it is all a sham.

[KhunFred]

9 minutes ago, topt said:

Sounds to me like you are being very naive or venting - if so fine.

However the "agent" facilitation has been talked about at some length in various threads for some time. 

Even people who have no interest in using them (like me) know it is all a sham.

If "naive" is trying to understand the process then put me down as the Nadir of Naivete. I read dire warnings on TVF about visas being "fraudulent" and agents being "illegal". My process was described as "dishonest" by one forum member and unlike those who "show up in person" and pay 1900 baht for a visa. I don't have that option because of a change in the rules, although I DID "show up in person". Some idiot at the American Embassy decided that they could not make themselves "liable" for lies on personal income told by expats. This, in spite of the fact that they have diplomatic immunity and cannot be held legally liable for anything. They are lazy and do not want to work anymore than they are required to. Trump's new Ambassador should immediately reopen the "income letter" issue and resume issuing them. He will never do that because it's easier to do nothing. If this is what you call "venting", so be it. There has not been one post which sheds light on the process or tells the obvious truth: the rules don't matter if you pay them off. 

 

[topt]

1 minute ago, KhunFred said:

or tells the obvious truth: the rules don't matter if you pay them off. 

How long have you been in Thailand - that's a rhetorical question. 

[Andy from Kent]

51 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

1 hour ago, topt said:

Sounds to me like you are being very naive or venting - if so fine.

However the "agent" facilitation has been talked about at some length in various threads for some time. 

Even people who have no interest in using them (like me) know it is all a sham.

If "naive" is trying to understand the process then put me down as the Nadir of Naivete. I read dire warnings on TVF about visas being "fraudulent" and agents being "illegal". My process was described as "dishonest" by one forum member and unlike those who "show up in person" and pay 1900 baht for a visa. I don't have that option because of a change in the rules, although I DID "show up in person". Some idiot at the American Embassy decided that they could not make themselves "liable" for lies on personal income told by expats. This, in spite of the fact that they have diplomatic immunity and cannot be held legally liable for anything. They are lazy and do not want to work anymore than they are required to. Trump's new Ambassador should immediately reopen the "income letter" issue and resume issuing them. He will never do that because it's easier to do nothing. If this is what you call "venting", so be it. There has not been one post which sheds light on the process or tells the obvious truth: the rules don't matter if you pay them off. 

 

KhunFred,

 

You have every right to vent on this forum if that's what you're doing.

 

Very few people understand the mindset and workings of TI other than experts such as Udon Joe.

 

I think the use of Agents is not illegal as long as you use them for assistance and not in a way of fraud as in  reporting you have money in the bank that is not there.

 

Not saying this applies to you, but my parents  always taught me if I  ever think everyone else  around me is wrong, it's time to take a closer look at myself.   Self examination?

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Andy from Kent

[Nout]

19 hours ago, jackdd said:

You did what immigration wants you to do, pay an agent so that they get a backhander, thus you got the VIP treatment.

The problem is that the more people give in to this, the more they will tighten the rules for legit applicants, to make even more money.

Long live agents and the agency system.

[Andy from Kent]

8 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I don't have 80 thousand baht of "available income", anyway, if I have to use my income to live on. Nowhere in the rules does it say anything about "availability". Money is used to live on, that includes paying any debts that you accrue.

 

 

KhunFred,

 

The immigration rules state there must be a transfer of 65K baht each month to a Thai bank.

 

If you  fail  to have that amount  "available to send" each month,  you'll likely be kicked back by the authorities.

 

Can you just pay off your credit card companies so you can send the monthly 65K requirement?

 

 

[Max69xl]

9 hours ago, KhunFred said:

ALL my money needs to be in my American bank account to pay the bills I owe. Credit card companies do not seem to accept payments from Bangkok Bank.

It seems you don't know how using an agent works. You don't meet the financial requirements if you don't have either 800k/400k in the bank or have at least 65k/40k monthly deposits from abroad verified by bank statements (you can't get an income letter anymore from your embassy). But, when using an agent the financial requirements disappear, that's what you pay for. 

[rott]

You don't meet the requirements.

It is as simple as that. 

What your income is at home is irrelevant, it is what comes here that counts. No cash, not enough income, you got the extension but you are still whingeing. 

[dlclark97]

4 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

The money has to actually be transferred to a Thai bank or it's not recognized as income for Immigration Visa purposes. Then your bank certifies the money has been transferred from abroad and that the monthly amounts exceeded 65,000 baht. If you draw money from an ATM machine directly from your home bank account you're also getting very poor exchange rates. Your only choice is to use an agent unless you want 800k earning 1% interest. 

That's 0.5% interest now in a fixed account.

[Jlop]

11 hours ago, KhunFred said:

ALL my money needs to be in my American bank account to pay the bills I owe. Credit card companies do not seem to accept payments from Bangkok Bank.

I just started using this incomemethod, and I will have to transfer some money back to America for bills after depositing it into the Thai bank account.  It's kind of stupid, but I think it will work because the immigration office I use only wanted to see the deposits - they didn't care about the withdrawals. 

[Bigz]

6 hours ago, heist said:

That's what I'd like to know. When I went to my local IO yesterday to get a 60 day extension I asked about the monthly income method and was told 'solly cannot, only 400k'

Same here a few weeks ago for a yearly extension...they just wouldn't accept the monthly method

[KhunFred]

5 hours ago, topt said:

How long have you been in Thailand - that's a rhetorical question. 

Five years.

[Peter Denis]

14 hours ago, Jlop said:

I just started using this income method, and I will have to transfer some money back to America for bills after depositing it into the Thai bank account.  It's kind of stupid, but I think it will work because the immigration office I use only wanted to see the deposits - they didn't care about the withdrawals. 

Be aware that when using the monthly income transfer method, the Imm officer handling your application can also request you to provide evidence of the SOURCE of that income (e.g. salary, rental income, pension, ...).  Some offices only accept a pension statement as proof of the SOURCE of that foreign monthly income.

So best to enquire at your local IO what specific additional requirements they impose when making use of the monthly income transfer method.