Thailand's sex workers petition to decriminalise prostitution

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Mental illness is suffered by millions of women, and men, around the world.

I'm thinking 'mental illness' in women as defined by us men, isn't 'mental illness' at all, it's just their normal behaviour.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

When I first came to Thailand, like many others, I made use of such ladies. I have no shame in it. Coming from where I did in America, with a shortage of available women, and the few remaining women having become extremely difficult, it was heaven. They got the support they needed, and so did I.

 

Arguably, I made friends with and had ongoing relations with some of them. I’m pretty sure much of the TVF has stories similar to this. I took one to a fancy hotel restaurant. The manager came over and talked to us. Turned out he was from my same hometown in America and we hit it off, reminiscing about our old days. He liked my companion as well, cute, good English, great personality, and some references she could use other than her main profession. He needed another a waitress, and I landed her the job. He told her to come in the next week with her papers. She never did.

 

Waitressing could be decent money. But not the other kind of money, for the latest phones, nice clothes, and who knows what other stuff, like drinking or gambling. Why run around bussing tables for a month, for the same money that could be made in a week? Simple math.

 

And there you have it, the argument against they’re “forced into it” and “have no other options”, yadda yadda.

Edited September 23, 2020 by CrunchWrapSupreme

[mrwebb8825]

Personally I hope they win. It might cut down on human trafficking if they all had to be registered, monitored, routinely sent for medicals, etc. Then the bib could focus on the non conformers and the rampant ladyboy gangs. Wouldn't hurt to add mobile blood screeners before accepting bar fines to help protect the girls from idiot tourists. Only takes 2-3 hrs to run an std test on blood. (I know because it's required every year for teachers). Positive girls get pulled from working while positive tourists get branded with some kind of detectable mark that takes 2 weeks to wear off like the dye pack on back notes to help identify thieves.

Edited September 23, 2020 by mrwebb8825

[Geoffggi]

As one of the worlds oldest professions, I wholeheartedly support this petition, with the exception of the abuse of under aged, for these people they should double the fine & prison sentencing ................!!!!

[ezzra]

You go girls.. and guys... lay down (no pun intended) your grievances...

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Personally I hope they win. It might cut down on human trafficking if they all had to be registered, monitored, routinely sent for medicals, etc. Then the bib could focus on the non conformers and the rampant ladyboy gangs. Wouldn't hurt to add mobile blood screeners before accepting bar fines to help protect the girls from idiot tourists. Only takes 2-3 hrs to run an std test on blood. (I know because it's required every year for teachers). Positive girls get pulled from working while positive tourists get branded with some kind of detectable mark that takes 2 weeks to wear off like the dye pack on back notes to help identify thieves.

Welcome to a brave new world of control.

I understand your proposal and see the positive points to it, but "branding" people who may return positive tests appears somewhat Orwellian. Remember some test results may also return false positives.

Also remember that some STIs take up to several days from infection to show positive results.

 

 

[PGSan]

50 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm fit, healthy, loving, caring, generous , a good father,

Modest too?  What a paragon of manly virtue!  I am surprised you only got through 3 acolytes so far.

[PGSan]

55 minutes ago, Crusader said:

Then when she starts talking - BANG - the low standard of Thai language says something else.

Please explain further, with examples of low and high standard of Thai.  

 

Such correlation of language standards and profession is not something that is observable in the languages I understand.  Why should Thai be an exception?  

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, animalmagic said:

The attached quote from the article would suggest you are wrong re the laws being enforced - 

'More than 24,000 people were arrested, prosecuted and fined for sex work-related offences in Thailand last year, according to the Royal Thai Police.'

The problem is the law is enforced selectively and gives others the leverage and power to force the sex workers to comply with their wishes.

To me it does not make any difference if the laws are enforced in the wrong way or not at all. To me that is same and equally worng.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Said from the side of a male supporter for female prostitution. A victimless crime? How do you figure that?

Do you think all the girls you see in the bars in Pattaya, Bangkok and many other places in Thailand that offer the possibility to go with them (sex included) had that on their list of wishes in life? Are you sure that it´s a victimless crime just because they can´t report it or that they do not have any physical scars or marks? Hoe do you define a crime? Is that a person breaking the law or a person that causes harm to a victim according to your definitions?

In many cases the girls that offer this kind of services are young and lured by other friends into this business, with the promise of riches and a great life. Many use drugs to cope with their situation in life. many are also mentally unstable and easily falls into deep depression, but still with a smile on their face to the next customer.

Why do you think so many bargirls that offer prostitution comes form poor areas in Isaan and have poor education? They are of course victims because they are basically forced into this line of work out of the feeling of need to support their families. I am not saying that there are not girls working with prostitution that actually likes it and see it as the good part outweighs the bad. However, most a not comfortable with what they are doing and therefore they are victims without a real choice in life.

Time to end the hypocrisy. It's the same argument as for drugs. Experience shows for both drugs and prostitution, in countries where they are decriminalized, the crime rate goes down significantly, because criminals can no longer profit from either.

The bar girls from Isaan could choose to stay in the rice fields, working for a subsistence wage. Everyone makes choices, many are made on the basis of money. Bar girls have the option of refusing a client if he is too drunk, sweaty or aggressive.

Some women are clearly unsuited for sex work. For some, it's just a job. Others take to it with enthusiasm. The ones that don't like it usually back out quickly.

Are you arguing prostitution should continue to be illegal? Who gains from that, except criminals and corrupt law enforcement?

 

[PGSan]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Almost all women worldwide have other boyfriends these days, it's just the way life has become.

I don't mind because now I've learned to have other girlfriends as well.

Agreed: exclusivity in relationships (especially those of a carnal or financial nature) is soooo 20th Century don’t you think?

[PGSan]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Bar girls have the option of refusing a client if he is too drunk, sweaty or aggressive.

On,y for those reasons?  Where are such rules of conduct codified?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I'm thinking 'mental illness' in women as defined by us men, isn't 'mental illness' at all, it's just their normal behaviour.

Men have a nice steady rise and decline of testosterone throughout their life, nothing to influence mood. Every month, women have estrogen fluctuations that can be as bad as a Richter 7 earthquake. Then there's post-partum depression, and the fluctuations of menopause.

I think if I had to put up with that much s##t, I'd be a bit doolally too.

[Matzzon]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Time to end the hypocrisy. It's the same argument as for drugs. Experience shows for both drugs and prostitution, in countries where they are decriminalized, the crime rate goes down significantly, because criminals can no longer profit from either.

The bar girls from Isaan could choose to stay in the rice fields, working for a subsistence wage. Everyone makes choices, many are made on the basis of money. Bar girls have the option of refusing a client if he is too drunk, sweaty or aggressive.

Some women are clearly unsuited for sex work. For some, it's just a job. Others take to it with enthusiasm. The ones that don't like it usually back out quickly.

Are you arguing prostitution should continue to be illegal? Who gains from that, except criminals and corrupt law enforcement?

 

No, if you do not chose to read my post in the wrong way, I never posted that prostitution should continue to be illegal. Where did you get that from?

What i wrote is that it´s is not a victimless crime as it is today. There are many many girls that force themselves into this line of work, only because of poor education and need of money to send home. The whole system is wrong from start. Where I grew up, and I assume that also goes for you, it´s the parents that works for their children so they can get a good start in life. That is just not a part of the culture here, and a very big underlying factor that creates and feed the prostitution.

 

So, what I am saying is that it is many times not a victimless crime, even if the customers feels like that and that all seems fine. I can not care less about if it continues to be illegal or if it is legalised. That was not my point.

As you say, of course crime rate will go down if prostitution is legalized. That speaks for itself. However, I wonder if it is the real significant crime rate you are talking about or if a big part of the down is form the fact that it just for example is no need to arrest the 24 000 no more.

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, PGSan said:

On,y for those reasons?  Where are such rules of conduct codified?

You want them in writing?

Bar girls support each other, and have good antennae for psychos and weirdos. I used to see a guy on Loi Kroh who got knocked back at every bar, he had acquired a reputation as rough.

[Matzzon]

18 minutes ago, PGSan said:

On,y for those reasons?  Where are such rules of conduct codified?

They do not have to be codified. The bar girl is working for the bar on a very low fixed salary. After that they earn extra by getting lady drinks as well as from customers that are paying for them. They have no obligation to go with men according to any rules. That gives them the freedom to also refuse or just say no.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Matzzon

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

No, if you do not chose to read my post in the wrong way, I never posted that prostitution should continue to be illegal. Where did you get that from?

What i wrote is that it´s is not a victimless crime as it is today. There are many many girls that force themselves into this line of work, only because of poor education and need of money to send home. The whole system is wrong from start. Where I grew up, and I assume that also goes for you, it´s the parents that works for their children so they can get a good start in life. That is just not a part of the culture here, and a very big underlying factor that creates and feed the prostitution.

 

So, what I am saying is that it is many times not a victimless crime, even if the customers feels like that and that all seems fine. I can not care less about if it continues to be illegal or if it is legalised. That was not my point.

As you say, of course crime rate will go down if prostitution is legalized. That speaks for itself. However, I wonder if it is the real significant crime rate you are talking about or if a big part of the down is form the fact that it just for example is no need to arrest the 24 000 no more.

A misunderstanding. Although you do say you don't care whether it remains illegal or not, which I would call fence-sitting.

[Matzzon]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

A misunderstanding. Although you do say you don't care whether it remains illegal or not, which I would call fence-sitting.

Ok, I will take that to me and correct myself to that I am okay with legal prostitution due to that it is already such a big business as well as it would take the pressure off the sex workers.

 

Never sit on a fence, you know me by now. ????

[BobinBKK]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Said from the side of a male supporter for female prostitution. A victimless crime? How do you figure that?

Do you think all the girls you see in the bars in Pattaya, Bangkok and many other places in Thailand that offer the possibility to go with them (sex included) had that on their list of wishes in life? Are you sure that it´s a victimless crime just because they can´t report it or that they do not have any physical scars or marks? Hoe do you define a crime? Is that a person breaking the law or a person that causes harm to a victim according to your definitions?

In many cases the girls that offer this kind of services are young and lured by other friends into this business, with the promise of riches and a great life. Many use drugs to cope with their situation in life. many are also mentally unstable and easily falls into deep depression, but still with a smile on their face to the next customer.

Why do you think so many bargirls that offer prostitution comes form poor areas in Isaan and have poor education? They are of course victims because they are basically forced into this line of work out of the feeling of need to support their families. I am not saying that there are not girls working with prostitution that actually likes it and see it as the good part outweighs the bad. However, most a not comfortable with what they are doing and therefore they are victims without a real choice in life.

Soooooo.... The real criminals are the culture, government, and economic model? Oddly enough I have never seen prostitues so readily available in western countries.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Personally I hope they win. It might cut down on human trafficking if they all had to be registered, monitored, routinely sent for medicals, etc. Then the bib could focus on the non conformers and the rampant ladyboy gangs. Wouldn't hurt to add mobile blood screeners before accepting bar fines to help protect the girls from idiot tourists. Only takes 2-3 hrs to run an std test on blood. (I know because it's required every year for teachers). Positive girls get pulled from working while positive tourists get branded with some kind of detectable mark that takes 2 weeks to wear off like the dye pack on back notes to help identify thieves.

Please enlighten me. What is the reason for requiring STD tests on teachers?

[TEZA2]

6 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

It's criminal to not decriminalize. A victimless crime... is not a crime. 

Its criminal because there is no tax ????  If they could effectively tax it, no problem - it would be legalized

[Gilltom]

12 hours ago, Brunolem said:

What prostitution... where??? 

There are no prostitutes in Thailand how dare they suggest otherwise ????????????

[Matzzon]

9 minutes ago, BobinBKK said:

Soooooo.... The real criminals are the culture, government, and economic model? Oddly enough I have never seen prostitues so readily available in western countries.

Never posted that, and it´s only you letting your own imagination play with you. If they are available in western countries are also irrelevant to the thread.

[hotchilli]

15 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Women and LGBT+ rights activists say the current law, which made prostitution illegal in 1960, does little to protect sex workers, while repeated arrests and fines for doing sex work has driven them further into poverty.

If prostitution is illegal how do places like Nana, Soi Cowboy and the rest stay open....

[apart from payments to look the other way]

It's illegal but tolerated, when was the last prostitute sentenced for selling?

[johnarth]

in most counties where it has been brought in before they were the same as Thailand and everybody said will not work but it seems it has, don't know about the tea money and the freebies though

[ChipButty]

The BIB couldn't find any in Pattaya

[BTB1977]

1,000 signatures, wow thats 1,000 great leads. That should keep them busy checking each and everyone one on the list. 

[djayz]

If legalized, does it mean they'll have to file their earnings with the revenue authorities and pay income tax? 

[2 is 1]

Many salesman is much more "hooker" than any prostitute woman! Here almost everybody know someone who sell sex, even kids know! It's not big deal and everybody else its ok but not in the name of law.

But one thing i don't understand, why here is ok , that even kid can be ladyboy! Kid's age 10 or even younger start to be ladyboy! And here that is ok to everybody, how can kid in young age already know hes/hers identity!

Sexual orientation is huge thing for people, so why let young kid's deside in early age what they "want"!

[Tounge Thaied]

2 minutes ago, 2 is 1 said:

Many salesman is much more "hooker" than any prostitute woman! Here almost everybody know someone who sell sex, even kids know! It's not big deal and everybody else its ok but not in the name of law.

But one thing i don't understand, why here is ok , that even kid can be ladyboy! Kid's age 10 or even younger start to be ladyboy! And here that is ok to everybody, how can kid in young age already know hes/hers identity!

Sexual orientation is huge thing for people, so why let young kid's deside in early age what they "want"!

The young boy, acting as the ladyboy, is simply seeking attention. They are not getting enough love and attention from their home, from their parents, from their family. There are many ways to seek out attention... this is just one of them.