7 days to leave if visa not extended?

[Fibonaqi]

6 hours ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

There used to be direct flights between Bangkok and the USA but not since 2012. 

Thought Thai Airways used to fly direct between BKK and LAX until COVID, isn't that right? They always used to cost more than other airlines though at the time.

[Captain Monday]

10 hours ago, Fibonaqi said:

Thought Thai Airways used to fly direct between BKK and LAX until COVID, isn't that right? They always used to cost more than other airlines though at the time.

The non-stop service from LAX-BKK was only when they had the A340-500.

A slow and aircraft with poor economics hard to almost give them away used now.

Thai Airways has not flown to North America in a few years.

The US carriers also pulled out of BKK. It is all codeshares now.

A350 or 787  nonstop capable but, Thailand isn't Singapore or India, with Business class cabins always full.

US-BKK is mostly a leisure market, hard eke out profits with China carriers dumping transpacific capacity.

 

[NanLaew]

I still like to use ita matrix for the basic flight availability search before going to the airline website to confirm and book.

 

Here's some current (real-time)  selections for a o/w to my regular UK and US destinations based on departing BKK 28 Sep +/- 2 days. You can apply filters to remove the flights with long layovers. The main search filter was to show only flights with seats available.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am aware that it shows Thai Airways but we already know that most TV travel denizens avoid then even if they were flying.

 

Good luck to those wherever their travels take them.

Edited September 25, 2020 by NanLaew

[TheFreqFlyer]

12 hours ago, Fibonaqi said:

Thought Thai Airways used to fly direct between BKK and LAX until COVID, isn't that right? They always used to cost more than other airlines though at the time.

They stopped flying to LAX in 2015, but the non-stop service ended way back in 2012. Between 2012 and 2015, they reduced frequency and stopped off in either Seoul or Osaka, making it a much less attractive service. You might as well have flown on EVA or Korean Air, same thing given you need a stopover on the way. 

[TheFreqFlyer]

2 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

The non-stop service from LAX-BKK was only when they had the A340-500.

A slow and aircraft with poor economics hard to almost give them away used now.

Thai Airways has not flown to North America in a few years.

The US carriers also pulled out of BKK. It is all codeshares now.

A350 or 787  nonstop capable but, Thailand isn't Singapore or India, with Business class cabins always full.

US-BKK is mostly a leisure market, hard eke out profits with China carriers dumping transpacific capacity.

 

Yes but do Americans really travel to Singapore much on business? Would have thought it's more about transit traffic, allowing one to use the SIA/Silkair/Scoot network to travel onward to Malaysia/Thailand/Indonesia/Vietnam countries which don't currently have direct service to the USA and Thailand aside, never have flown direct services (other than repatriation flights during the present crisis).

 

BKK is mostly leisure, but one would think there is some corporate travel too, mainly concerning manufacturing operations on the Eastern Seaboard, though I do contend that there are relatively few American companies based here compared to Japanese. Hence why Japan-Thailand routes see a mixture of business and leisure travel in both directions (used to be that Japan bound traffic was all Japanese travelers returning home and corporate traffic for foreigners, but with Japan's new tourism policy, most Japan bound Thais visit for leisure purposes, with the remainder working there). 

 

I hope one day there will be a return of Thailand-USA direct flights - don't forget the large Thai diaspora living in Los Angeles in particular. Wouldn't that be enough for a direct service? I can see a return of a once daily BKK-LAX, maybe BKK-SFO and possibly BKK-NYC (JFK) service. 

 

After all, there are Philippines-USA flights (however, these are only operated by Philippines Airlines) and the Philippines is almost 100% a leisure market given there is no manufacturing there to speak of and it's a very minor financial center. 

[Max69xl]

11 minutes ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

They stopped flying to LAX in 2015, but the non-stop service ended way back in 2012. Between 2012 and 2015, they reduced frequency and stopped off in either Seoul or Osaka, making it a much less attractive service. You might as well have flown on EVA or Korean Air, same thing given you need a stopover on the way. 

One reason they stopped was because of the A340. The annual losses started when they bought that airplane. 

[TheFreqFlyer]

And speaking of why THAI ended it's USA services after 35 years, it has more to do with it's financial situation and using the wrong aircraft type for the job, as well as pricing itself out of the market than anything else. The demand for USA bound travel was always there. 

 

There is certainly demand for a direct service again in the future, not just to connect the Thai diaspora with home and allow expats/those in relationships with Thais to commute between the two countries more easily, but also for American tourists and some corporate travel (including Thai investors heading to the USA) and government officials. Thai government officials would often be on board the BKK-JFK service.

 

As for US airlines, the best they could offer was a one stop service via an Asian gateway city, either Hong Kong or Tokyo (generally it was Tokyo).

The only service from an American airline offered in the last 15 or so years was the once daily United 747 service from Chicago via Tokyo to Bangkok. A separate service was offered from I think it was San Francisco via Hong Kong to Ho Chi Minh City. Both services were suspended at the same time in 2012, thus terminating in Tokyo/Hong Kong, respectively. Previously there was also a Northwest service, which was also one-stop, possibly via Tokyo, but I don't recall hearing of that service after around 2005 or 2007. 

 

I'm surprised any US carrier even flies to Singapore and India; I think there is only a singular service from SFO to Singapore on United competing with SIA, which also flies to several other US cities in addition to SFO.

 

Any future return to the USA from Thailand is almost certain to involve a Thai carrier, rather than expecting a US carrier to offer a service. Ditto for Vietnam-USA direct flights in the future, which will be operated by Vietnam Airlines and maybe Bamboo Air, but almost certainly not an American carrier. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by TheFreqFlyer

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

The only service from an American airline offered in the last 15 or so years was the once daily United 747 service from Chicago via Tokyo to Bangkok.

I flew a few times IAH-NRT-BKK on Continental/United. I think Continental started that route in 1999 and after they became United, started twice-daily non-stops to Narita around 2014. I haven't flown that route since the NRT-BKK sectors became a code share with ANA but some guys that did quickly switched to EVA as the ANA service was spotty with their dodgy 787's at the time combined with the worn-out United Jumbos and 777's.

 

I also recall IAH-SFO-NRT-BKK when it all became United. I much preferred the west coast stopover over Chicago if I had to go that route.

[checkered flag]

On 9/23/2020 at 6:06 PM, Peter Denis said:

Yes, but if there is no recurse possible against local Imm officers (and the officer in charge) denying your fully legit extension application or short-changing you on the days you need for your subsequent extension, the end result is the same.

And it's not 'just some' imm officers, but a systemic Immigration issue.

 

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for you. You know the game and frequently post so you should be able to navigate the system. You had 6 months to get your financials in order and now you'll probably have to leave. Your goose seems cooked. If you screw things up now they might not let you return at a future time.

[Fibonaqi]

14 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for you. You know the game and frequently post so you should be able to navigate the system. You had 6 months to get your financials in order and now you'll probably have to leave. Your goose seems cooked. If you screw things up now they might not let you return at a future time.

You're missing the point of the thread here. Concluded by OP here (yours truly) in post #60. Please read.

[Fibonaqi]

This thread is concluded by OP in post #60 with the 7-day to leave scenario resolved. Could forum admin please relocate the ensuing discussions on flyertalk to another forum please?

[Peter Denis]

39 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for you. You know the game and frequently post so you should be able to navigate the system. You had 6 months to get your financials in order and now you'll probably have to leave. Your goose seems cooked. If you screw things up now they might not let you return at a future time.

Sure I know the game, and yes I am fully able to navigate the system.  And so I share some of the knowledge I have with those on the Forum that have queries or looking for advice.

And contrary to what you seem to think, I am not in any trouble whatsoever (so don't care about your lack of sympathy).  I am living in Thailand on my Non Imm O-A Visa of which the permission to stay only expires end of January 2021.  Time enough to prepare for my 1-year extension of stay, and finances being no issue at all.

But I refuse to stigmatize those experiencing problems with whimsical and often rogue IOs, and getting the full load of accusations from clueless posters about having 'six months to prepare their application'.  Instead I try to provide them with insight in the options they have and constructive advice on how to deal with often inconsistent and obnoxious IOs bending and making up the rules as they go along. 

Thank You.

[NanLaew]

47 minutes ago, Fibonaqi said:

This thread is concluded by OP in post #60 with the 7-day to leave scenario resolved. Could forum admin please relocate the ensuing discussions on flyertalk to another forum please?

Yes, some of us noticed that this thread had passed its use-by date a page or so ago. That's why we're talking about old aeroplanes and a growing nostalgia for the good old days now.

 

I'm just back from getting my 11th-hour extension at Udon Immigration. The pre-dawn adrenaline rush of riding the ragged edge of destiny was somewhat diminished at 6 a.m. when I went for my queue number and saw the new signs on their office gates advising that like Phuket and some other Immigration offices, they will be open tomorrow.

 

PS: If you don't like 'flyertalk' and happily ever after stories, you can also try and stop reading this thread.

Edited September 25, 2020 by NanLaew

[checkered flag]

7 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Sure I know the game, and yes I am fully able to navigate the system.  And so I share some of the knowledge I have with those on the Forum that have queries or looking for advice.

And contrary to what you seem to think, I am not in any trouble whatsoever (so don't care about your lack of sympathy).  I am living in Thailand on my Non Imm O-A Visa of which the permission to stay only expires end of January 2021.  Time enough to prepare for my 1-year extension of stay, and finances being no issue at all.

But I refuse to stigmatize those experiencing problems with whimsical and often rogue IOs, and getting the full load of accusations from clueless posters about having 'six months to prepare their application'.  Instead I try to provide them with insight in the options they have and constructive advice on how to deal with often inconsistent and obnoxious IOs bending and making up the rules as they go along. 

Thank You.

So why about the over the top negativity with TI and their systematic issues. I've always been treated honestly and fairly. I follow the rules and ask questions if I'm not sure. I never wait until the last minute, just to be sure. 

I just don't buy your negativity, but maybe that's because we come from different cultural backgrounds. Focus on what can be done and don't waste time complaining. 

[sallecc]

Back to the subject (for those who are interested)...

 

Went today to Phuket immigration to ask for my parents (tourists on amnesty): if they fly out Oct/2, can they get 7-days 'denied' stamp (to avoid paying overstay at the airport), Immigration officer said NO, they absolutely DO NOT stamp 7-days for tourists on amnesty, he advised:

 

1) Get embassy letter for 30 days (but their country has no embassy in Thailand);

 

2) Pay overstay fine at the airport;

 

3) Wait for the "news from the government about another amnesty today or tomorrow" (I totally doubt this, just saying what he told me).

 

So it's going to be overstay payment at the airport, not big deal, just wanted to share  info from Phuket I/O office if anybody is interested, cheers.

 

[Caldera]

37 minutes ago, sallecc said:

3) Wait for the "news from the government about another amnesty today or tomorrow" (I totally doubt this, just saying what he told me).

Seeing the mayhem at many immigration offices, prolonging the automatic extension by another 2-3 weeks would be the sensible last minute thing to do.

 

To be fair, some embassies have been very slow with "refining" their letter policy and/or with issuing letters, which isn't Thailand's fault.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post meant to deflect the topic has been removed.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, sallecc said:

Back to the subject (for those who are interested)...

 

Went today to Phuket immigration to ask for my parents (tourists on amnesty): if they fly out Oct/2, can they get 7-days 'denied' stamp (to avoid paying overstay at the airport), Immigration officer said NO, they absolutely DO NOT stamp 7-days for tourists on amnesty, he advised:

 

1) Get embassy letter for 30 days (but their country has no embassy in Thailand);

 

2) Pay overstay fine at the airport;

 

3) Wait for the "news from the government about another amnesty today or tomorrow" (I totally doubt this, just saying what he told me).

 

So it's going to be overstay payment at the airport, not big deal, just wanted to share  info from Phuket I/O office if anybody is interested, cheers.

 

With Phuket Immi's flagrant disregard for their own 'head office' rules that qualifying extensions should be post-dated from the date of amnesty expiration, as well as this story of just sticking a couple of big dry ones up a pair of tourists asses, I wonder if/when things reopen, people will forego wasting time in the suckhole that is Phuket?

Edited September 25, 2020 by NanLaew

[Fibonaqi]

4 hours ago, sallecc said:

Back to the subject (for those who are interested)...

 

Went today to Phuket immigration to ask for my parents (tourists on amnesty): if they fly out Oct/2, can they get 7-days 'denied' stamp (to avoid paying overstay at the airport), Immigration officer said NO, they absolutely DO NOT stamp 7-days for tourists on amnesty, he advised:

 

1) Get embassy letter for 30 days (but their country has no embassy in Thailand);

 

2) Pay overstay fine at the airport;

 

3) Wait for the "news from the government about another amnesty today or tomorrow" (I totally doubt this, just saying what he told me).

 

So it's going to be overstay payment at the airport, not big deal, just wanted to share  info from Phuket I/O office if anybody is interested, cheers.

 

Please do update us in case they waive the overstay fines - times are different now, not inconceivable that they would.

[Fibonaqi]

3 hours ago, Caldera said:

Seeing the mayhem at many immigration offices, prolonging the automatic extension by another 2-3 weeks would be the sensible last minute thing to do.

 

To be fair, some embassies have been very slow with "refining" their letter policy and/or with issuing letters, which isn't Thailand's fault.

They could simply waive overstay fines for people if they leave within 7 days of September 26, just this once. That way they won't need to extend the amnesty and perpetuate further expectations, while giving people a grace period to leave. It would also be some form of incentive for some people to leave if the Thai government wants to get rid of them.

[Banana7]

On 9/22/2020 at 8:15 PM, asiacurious said:

True!  And yet.....  Giving people 7 days actual notice to leave when there is a pandemic raging around the world is not only cruel, it's unreasonable and probably not possible.

 

Let's take the possible part first

In 2019 there were an average 683 international departures from Thailand every single day.  It was easy to book something and leave within 7 days and people who were here as a tourist and stayed for only 30 or 60 days wouldn't have had much stuff to deal with before leaving.  ("Stuff" includes practical things as well as the possible emotional attachments or issues with leaving/returning home.)

 

Today there are/were 40 international flights departing Bangkok.  So far 4 of them were canceled and about 1/2 are yet to depart.  These are the destinations:

• 5 to Europe (3 Netherlands, 1 France, 1 Austria)
• 4 to China
• 4 to South Korea
• 4 to HKG (but 1 are canceled)
• 4 to Japan (but 3 are canceled)
• 3 to Philippines
• 2 to each of the following: Taiwan, Maldives, Qatar, UAE
• 1 to each of the following: Bhutan, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Malaysia, Myanmar, New Zealand, Singapore

Many of those flights aren't open to transiting passengers.  Notably there were none to Australia, UK, Canada, US, Russia, anywhere in South America.

It is a simple fact that booking something to leave in the next 7 days is difficult, unreasonable, and likely impossible.

 

It's unreasonable...

We are talking about people.  These are tough times.  Lots of uncertainty, lots of stress.  People who arrived on a tourist visa expecting to spend a few weeks or a couple of months here have become much less "tourist" and much more traditional expat.  How would retirees or expats married to Thais feel if the government gave them 7 days to leave?  How must those expats stuck abroad away from their families here feel?

 

To order someone to pack up and leave within 7 days under normal circumstances... fine.  But under these circumstances, it's simply unbelievable and unconscionable.

 

Better would be to tell those people who they are denying further extensions to, "We have granted you a final 30 day extension.  You may not apply for further extensions and you must leave within 30 days."  That would be reasonable.  That would be humane.

Lots of flights to Canada, specifically to YYZ and YVR. Eva air transit through TPE. Air Canada using ANA to start, transit through HND and NRT. Philippine Air transit through MNL. Asiana and Air Canada and Korean Air transit through ICN. Cathay Pacific transit through HKG. I've had Canadian friends use all of these routes in the past 45 days. Air Canada, on some one-way flights, was only CAD$700 BKK to YYZ, very reasonable price.

 

The facts are that immigration clearly stated 45 days in advance, tourists must leave by 26 Sept. or get a long stay visa. Multiple additional warnings by Immigration, were issued through various news reporting agencies during the 45 days, tourist amnesty expires 26 Sept. make alter arrangements to stay longer by obtaining a different visa, or leave, do not wait to the last few weeks or days.

 

Thailand has been extremely flexible, kind, understanding and generous extending tourist visas up to 26 Sept.. 

 

 

[samsensam]

On 9/24/2020 at 3:38 PM, Fibonaqi said:

Hi everyone, OP here, just to bring the topic back in focus.

To all the naysayers, curmudgeons, karens, sourpusses, schadenfreuds, grumpy old whatevers, I got my embassy letter yesterday and visa extended today with an under consideration stamp for October 22. I'm happy with that. All sorted in less than 48 hours from contemplating and posting this what-if scenario.

 

As a seasoned traveller and nomad, I've learned that in these crazy uncertain times, there is no certainty that you can count on when it comes to making travel plans and stay or go decisions. The world has changed as you all know. There are often out-of-pocket consequences for planning ahead and committing too soon like old times. Rules change, borders close, flights cancelled, airlines go under at the drop of a hat. I totally stand by my wise decision to wait and see what happens before doing what I have to do. I don't believe I would have been able to get a UK Embassy letter 2 weeks ago or earlier. I did not qualify under their original terms. They only relented the last few days judging from reports. Until 2 days ago, there was a reasonable chance of some form of relief being announced. I also had an exit plan lined up if nothing came through. I was never stranded, stuck, desperate, up a creek without a paddle or in a pickle. Given the choice, I prefer to be in Thailand right now and am really enjoying being here and all the things I know I will miss about Thailand when I leave.

I'm very grateful to everyone who shared useful tips and info here, to the UK Embassy for doing the right thing and last but not least, to Thailand for letting us stay for months for "free" during these uncertain times! ????

Remember, you always have a choice.

 

good advice, people need to be in control of their lives; get organised, use common sense and be prepared, not sit around hoping things work out and then getting angry, bitter and blaming immigration or thailand when things don't go as they expected.

[EricTh]

On 9/22/2020 at 6:39 PM, jackdd said:

If your visa application is officially denied (you get a stamp in your passport) you will be given 7 days to leave the country. I don't know if this would start then from 27th or the day when you apply, this could also depend on the immigration office. They would keep the 1900THB.

 

Do they still fine 500 baht for each day of overstay within that 7 days period?

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Do they still fine 500 baht for each day of overstay within that 7 days period?

No

You get a valid permit to stay for the 7 days.

[ubonjoe]

Several off topic posts and a bickering session have been removed.

[checkered flag]

38 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I do not know what is behind their push to get all these amnesty tourists out, but it has come to an 'end' now... excepting those who get Embassy letters. A few weeks more is on top of 6 month more.... and there was plenty of warning. A few weeks more.... a few weeks more..... People are not yet being dragged to the airport, an overstay fine is all they face.

 

The biggest problem is with those who have been in Thailand a long time and relied on border runs and yearly new visas. Most had no alternate plans and are stuck. Some have houses, cars, and family and no where to return to. I'm sorry but if they can't come up with the financials they shouldn't be in Thailand. Lack of financial also indicates to me that their contributions to Thailand are minimal. Thailand wants those who can help the economy not those just seeking a cheap lifestyle. 

Some put everything in a house and/or car, but TI wants proof of money in the bank or monthly foreign transfers.

[checkered flag]

54 minutes ago, Caldera said:

I think it's a little bit more complex than that; it isn't the applicant's fault in all cases and now immigration clearly is overwhelmed.

 

Anyway, what's the harm in allowing a few weeks more to assure due process for all? It would still end, and soon enough!

I disagree. The applicant who waits until the last days is at fault for overwhelming the immigration offices. Allowing extra time won't solve the problem, it only delays the same problem.

[sandyf]

On 9/23/2020 at 5:40 PM, Peter Denis said:

Although I agree with your stance, the argument of the IO demonstrates once again how clueless they are because Immigration announced some weeks ago that ALL extensions of stay applied for during the Amnesty period would have 27 September as start-date. 

Immigration made no such announcement.

[Peter Denis]

59 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Immigration made no such announcement.

 

[checkered flag]

50 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

 

OK give Peter the last work. You win the argument but dates won't change.