UK pledges £340 million for WHO, calls for end to 'ugly rifts'

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Labeling any contradictory opinion, even fact, as right wing conspiracy rhetoric is so transparent and unimaginative.  Is that all you've got?

 

Foreign Policy - Yes, Blame WHO for Its Disastrous Coronavirus Response

 

Foreign Policy - How WHO Became China’s Coronavirus Accomplice

 

Foreign Policy has a rating of least biased and highly factual.  Again, just throw a right wing conspiracy label on it and we'll all just bury our heads in the sand.

Agree FP are credible, but don't have a subscription to view the articles. Hower, I responded to your comment: "Why veil their compliance and obedience to the CCP with benign double speak?" with which I found inaccurate. WHO did make mistakes with their initial assessment of threat regards Covid, but once WHO were permitted entry to PRC for on the ground assessment, the team. in a matter of days understood the reality and made numerous recommendations, link posted above, to contain the spread. Unfortunately, some governments did not take the matter seriously enough for appropriate containment measures which led to some terrible outcomes; including within the UK.

[Tippaporn]

54 minutes ago, simple1 said:

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Labeling any contradictory opinion, even fact, as right wing conspiracy rhetoric is so transparent and unimaginative.  Is that all you've got?

 

Foreign Policy - Yes, Blame WHO for Its Disastrous Coronavirus Response

 

Foreign Policy - How WHO Became China’s Coronavirus Accomplice

 

Foreign Policy has a rating of least biased and highly factual.  Again, just throw a right wing conspiracy label on it and we'll all just bury our heads in the sand.

Agree FP are credible, but don't have a subscription to view the articles. Hower, I responded to your comment: "Why veil their compliance and obedience to the CCP with benign double speak?" with which I found inaccurate. WHO did make mistakes with their initial assessment of threat regards Covid, but once WHO were permitted entry to PRC for on the ground assessment, the team. in a matter of days understood the reality and made numerous recommendations, link posted above, to contain the spread. Unfortunately, some governments did not take the matter seriously enough for appropriate containment measures which led to some terrible outcomes; including within the UK.

Seems to me to be a difference in interpreting facts and events.  What you interpret as making mistakes I interpret as complicity and corruption.  One of us is correct.

[Kinnock]

41 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Agree FP are credible, but don't have a subscription to view the articles. Hower, I responded to your comment: "Why veil their compliance and obedience to the CCP with benign double speak?" with which I found inaccurate. WHO did make mistakes with their initial assessment of threat regards Covid, but once WHO were permitted entry to PRC for on the ground assessment, the team. in a matter of days understood the reality and made numerous recommendations, link posted above, to contain the spread. Unfortunately, some governments did not take the matter seriously enough for appropriate containment measures which led to some terrible outcomes; including within the UK.

The WHO advice continues to be useless and inneffective, it was not just their poor start.

 

Where is the trusted voice to balance the fear created by the media?  Where is the voice of sanity saying that the economic damage of largely inneffective lockdowns outweighs the benefits?  Where is the person with the guts to stand up and say that people die all the time - many morr from diarrhoea or TB than COVID, where is the scientific challenge to the nonesense figures spewed out by Johns Hopkins everyday?

 

WHO clearly failed to step up at the one time in their entire history that the world really needed them.  Having daily video briefings where they mutter out of date piffle is not leadership - especially at a time the world needs a trusted voice. 

 

People simply do not trust a politician who made deals with China and African Countries to secure a position that should have been held by a real Doctor.  If he had an ounce of honor he would have stood down months ago.

 

I'm speaking from the point of view of a Public Health professional with 40 years experience.  In January WHO should have told the world that we're in for a prolonged period of logarithmic growth in case numbers, and we need to protect the elderly and vulnerable, but everone else needs to keep calm and carry on.  Wear masks, practice social distancing, avoid crowds, but carry on.  Otherwise the world economy will stall, forcing millions into starvation.

 

Too late now.  WHO blatantly failed and the fear mongering media is the only voice people hear, causing country leaders to over-react and erode human rights whilst wrecking the economy and growing epic levels of public debt that even our children's children will not manage to pay off.  Then to add insult to injury by giving even more taxpayer's money to a failed organisation.

 

[candide]

36 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

I'm speaking from the point of view of a Public Health professional with 40 years experience.  In January WHO should have told the world that we're in for a prolonged period of logarithmic growth in case numbers, and we need to protect the elderly and vulnerable, but everone else needs to keep calm and carry on.  Wear masks, practice social distancing, avoid crowds, but carry on.  Otherwise the world economy will stall, forcing millions into starvation.

As a health professional, you seem to be unaware of how the WHO works and how member countries easily get insider information.

The WHO is employing in its task force specialists which are sent by their member countries and keep contact their national health services. For example, the head of the WHO coronavirus task force was at the same time the head of the French Health Service, and there were Specialists from the US and other countries.

The board of executives, the highest decision-making unit (Tedros never made anything which was not in agreement with the board), is composed of senior executives which are actually employed at a high level by their respective national health organisation.

https://apps.who.int/gb/gov/en/composition-of-the-board_en.html

Who's seating at this board, for example?

A senior executive employed by the US HHS! And also senior executives employed by their German, Australian, Japanese, South Korean, Uk, etc... health services.

It means that these people:

- were aware of any insider information, debate and controversies, doubts, uncertainties, etc.... way beyond official communication by the WHO, and were able to inform their country

- actually voted key decisions made by the WHO (one cannot imagine they did it without consulting their national HS, right?),

- if they voted against them, they could send information about why they voted against and warn their national HS.

 

So national Health organisations with employees at key position in the WHO, including the US and Australia had access to all available information and participated in key decision making.

 

[candide]

22 hours ago, Nout said:

And he boycots Taiwan and and supports a communist dictorship.

Nothing to do with Tedros. Taiwan is not member of the U.N. (voted by the U.N. assembly), and therefore cannot be a member of its organisations such as the WHO. It's a pity but not Tedros' fault.

[candide]

6 hours ago, Kinnock said:

So they are useless by design rather than accident.  Still useless.

 

Why do countries support the WHO with huge funds as they are clearly ineffective due to internal politics, external limitations and corruption at the top.

In order to allow the WHO to have intrusive investigation power, it's in theory quite simple. Member States just need to add an addendum to the treaty, allowing the WHO to investigate in their country.

Good luck with convincing countries to sign it, starting with the USA! ????

 

As concerns it's budget, it's a similar amount as that of a large US hospital, not more.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by candide

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, candide said:

As a health professional, you seem to be unaware of how the WHO works and how member countries easily get insider information.

The WHO is employing in its task force specialists which are sent by their member countries and keep contact their national health services. For example, the head of the WHO coronavirus task force was at the same time the head of the French Health Service, and there were Specialists from the US and other countries.

The board of executives, the highest decision-making unit (Tedros never made anything which was not in agreement with the board), is composed of senior executives which are actually employed at a high level by their respective national health organisation.

https://apps.who.int/gb/gov/en/composition-of-the-board_en.html

Who's seating at this board, for example?

A senior executive employed by the US HHS! And also senior executives employed by their German, Australian, Japanese, South Korean, Uk, etc... health services.

It means that these people:

- were aware of any insider information, debate and controversies, doubts, uncertainties, etc.... way beyond official communication by the WHO, and were able to inform their country

- actually voted key decisions made by the WHO (one cannot imagine they did it without consulting their national HS, right?),

- if they voted against them, they could send information about why they voted against and warn their national HS.

 

So national Health organisations with employees at key position in the WHO, including the US and Australia had access to all available information and participated in key decision making.

Sounds great in theory.  So where did it all go wrong?

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, candide said:

Nothing to do with Tedros. Taiwan is not member of the U.N. (voted by the U.N. assembly), and therefore cannot be a member of its organisations such as the WHO. It's a pity but not Tedros' fault.

Does not instill confidence in an organization meant to deal with health crises to know that politics trumps their mission purpose.  No proper responses allowed unless politically approved?  I'm sure Tedros had other options available to him other than sticking his tail between his legs when it involved a potential worldwide pandemic.  No guts no glory.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Kinnock said:

The WHO advice continues to be useless and inneffective, it was not just their poor start.

 

Where is the trusted voice to balance the fear created by the media?  Where is the voice of sanity saying that the economic damage of largely inneffective lockdowns outweighs the benefits?  Where is the person with the guts to stand up and say that people die all the time - many morr from diarrhoea or TB than COVID, where is the scientific challenge to the nonesense figures spewed out by Johns Hopkins everyday?

 

WHO clearly failed to step up at the one time in their entire history that the world really needed them.  Having daily video briefings where they mutter out of date piffle is not leadership - especially at a time the world needs a trusted voice. 

 

People simply do not trust a politician who made deals with China and African Countries to secure a position that should have been held by a real Doctor.  If he had an ounce of honor he would have stood down months ago.

 

I'm speaking from the point of view of a Public Health professional with 40 years experience.  In January WHO should have told the world that we're in for a prolonged period of logarithmic growth in case numbers, and we need to protect the elderly and vulnerable, but everone else needs to keep calm and carry on.  Wear masks, practice social distancing, avoid crowds, but carry on.  Otherwise the world economy will stall, forcing millions into starvation.

 

Too late now.  WHO blatantly failed and the fear mongering media is the only voice people hear, causing country leaders to over-react and erode human rights whilst wrecking the economy and growing epic levels of public debt that even our children's children will not manage to pay off.  Then to add insult to injury by giving even more taxpayer's money to a failed organisation.

 

You may well be a health care professional, but it appears you do not comprehend how WHO operates and the very complex diplomatic environment and timelines during which WHO gained sufficient knowledge of Covid-19.  However, did you read and put into the daily advisory notices issued by WHO after the assessment team completed thier on the ground assessments and associated recommendations?

 

The political and economic matters you raise obviously reside with HMG. Personally, I flatly disagree WHO is a 'failed organisation

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kinnock]

2 hours ago, candide said:

As a health professional, you seem to be unaware of how the WHO works and how member countries easily get insider information.

The WHO is employing in its task force specialists which are sent by their member countries and keep contact their national health services. For example, the head of the WHO coronavirus task force was at the same time the head of the French Health Service, and there were Specialists from the US and other countries.

The board of executives, the highest decision-making unit (Tedros never made anything which was not in agreement with the board), is composed of senior executives which are actually employed at a high level by their respective national health organisation.

https://apps.who.int/gb/gov/en/composition-of-the-board_en.html

Who's seating at this board, for example?

A senior executive employed by the US HHS! And also senior executives employed by their German, Australian, Japanese, South Korean, Uk, etc... health services.

It means that these people:

- were aware of any insider information, debate and controversies, doubts, uncertainties, etc.... way beyond official communication by the WHO, and were able to inform their country

- actually voted key decisions made by the WHO (one cannot imagine they did it without consulting their national HS, right?),

- if they voted against them, they could send information about why they voted against and warn their national HS.

 

So national Health organisations with employees at key position in the WHO, including the US and Australia had access to all available information and participated in key decision making.

 

We're honoured to have Dr Tedros join our humble forum - as nobody else on the planet could believe this.

[simple1]

14 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

We're honoured to have Dr Tedros join our humble forum - as nobody else on the planet could believe this.

I note in my post #24 providing links to WHO reports you posted a sneering emoji. Accordingly I assume you didn't read the info, which being a self-proclaimed health care professional I find rather odd. The info posted by Candide is easily verifiable by investigation of the content and digging a bit deeper e.g. from the main report...

 

The Joint Mission consisted of 25 national and international experts from China, Germany, Japan, Korea, Nigeria, Russia, Singapore, the United States of America and the World Health Organization (WHO). The Joint Mission was headed by Dr Bruce Aylward of WHO and Dr Wannian Liang of the People’s Republic of China. The full list of members and their affiliations is available in Annex A. The Joint Mission was implemented over a 9-day period from 16-24 February 2020. The schedule of work is available in Annex B. The Joint Mission began with a detailed workshop with representatives of all of the principal

[Tippaporn]

30 minutes ago, simple1 said:

I note in my post #24 providing links to WHO reports you posted a sneering emoji. Accordingly I assume you didn't read the info, which being a self-proclaimed health care professional I find rather odd. The info posted by Candide is easily verifiable by investigation of the content and digging a bit deeper e.g. from the main report...

 

The Joint Mission consisted of 25 national and international experts from China, Germany, Japan, Korea, Nigeria, Russia, Singapore, the United States of America and the World Health Organization (WHO). The Joint Mission was headed by Dr Bruce Aylward of WHO and Dr Wannian Liang of the People’s Republic of China. The full list of members and their affiliations is available in Annex A. The Joint Mission was implemented over a 9-day period from 16-24 February 2020. The schedule of work is available in Annex B. The Joint Mission began with a detailed workshop with representatives of all of the principal

The question still goes unanswered . . . so where did it all go wrong?

[simple1]

Just now, Tippaporn said:

The question still goes unanswered . . . so where did it all go wrong?

Stares one in the face - government politics.

[candide]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Sounds great in theory.  So where did it all go wrong?

My point is not whether  it sounds great or not.

My point is that all the countries which are involved in WHO committees and boards have participated in the decision-making processs.

It means they have voted decisions made by the WHO.

Let's take the case of the US HHS executive who is representing the US at the board:

- either, in agreement with the HHS, he/she voted for decisions the US now criticises

- or, in agreement with the HHS, he/she voted against it. In this case, being well informed, they were able not to follow this particular recommendations.

 

So countries like the USA or Australia are complaining about decisions they voted. No one has been "fooled".

[candide]

1 hour ago, Kinnock said:

We're honoured to have Dr Tedros join our humble forum - as nobody else on the planet could believe this.

Of course, when you are presented facts you cannot refute, you just deflect.

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, candide said:

My point is not whether  it sounds great or not.

My point is that all the countries which are involved in WHO committees and boards have participated in the decision-making processs.

It means they have voted decisions made by the WHO.

Let's take the case of the US HHS executive who is representing the US at the board:

- either, in agreement with the HHS, he/she voted for decisions the US now criticises

- or, in agreement with the HHS, he/she voted against it. In this case, being well informed, they were able not to follow this particular recommendations.

 

So countries like the USA or Australia are complaining about decisions they voted. No one has been "fooled".

Assuming they're all honest, unconflicted Joe's.  Which in this case is one hellavu assumption.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.  Questioning the validity of persons membership in the open forum can earn a suspension.  

 

Stay on topic and keep it civil.  

 

[candide]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Assuming they're all honest, unconflicted Joe's.  Which in this case is one hellavu assumption.

So you assume that the executive board member who has been nominated by the US, failed to represent the interest of his country and/or to properly inform the administration he belongs to (remember he's on the HHS payroll). You may be right, but it's one hellavu assumption! 

[Tippaporn]

6 hours ago, candide said:

10 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

11 hours ago, candide said:

My point is not whether  it sounds great or not.

My point is that all the countries which are involved in WHO committees and boards have participated in the decision-making processs.

It means they have voted decisions made by the WHO.

Let's take the case of the US HHS executive who is representing the US at the board:

- either, in agreement with the HHS, he/she voted for decisions the US now criticises

- or, in agreement with the HHS, he/she voted against it. In this case, being well informed, they were able not to follow this particular recommendations.

 

So countries like the USA or Australia are complaining about decisions they voted. No one has been "fooled".

Assuming they're all honest, unconflicted Joe's.  Which in this case is one hellavu assumption.

So you assume that the executive board member who has been nominated by the US, failed to represent the interest of his country and/or to properly inform the administration he belongs to (remember he's on the HHS payroll). You may be right, but it's one hellavu assumption! 

The WHO has not earned my trust as they failed miserably and have shown complicity with the CCP.  Three times now, where did it all go wrong?  I think it's safe to assume that the WHO is not working as you outlined.  One can only make suppositions at this point as to why.

[candide]

What I describe is public information, I.e. the composition of the board, of the emergency committee, etc....and their role in the decision process. It has also been largely commented in media.

 

It seems you fail to see my point (or pretend you don't). My point is not to tout the current structure and functioning as ideal and faultless.

 

My point is that the countries which are significantly present in the WHO organisation participated in the decision-making process. If the WHO failed, as you claim, it means that they failed. Individually, some countries may have disagreed with some decisions. For example, it is possible that the US representative at the board or in committees voted against some decisions or recommendations. However, in this case, the US knew that it should not follow this particular recommendation and why.

[Eric Loh]

6 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The WHO has not earned my trust as they failed miserably and have shown complicity with the CCP.  Three times now, where did it all go wrong?  I think it's safe to assume that the WHO is not working as you outlined.  One can only make suppositions at this point as to why.

Don’t think WHO will be too concerned that they didn’t earn your trust. 142 WHO member states have maintained their faith and made formal pledges to support the Organisation and share results and learning internationally. EU has raised 8B to support WHO in vaccine and medicines. US and Trump are the odd entities that opted out from global cooperation and the increasing infections and deaths from COVID-19 and their long delaying attempt in developing a vaccine seem to point that their idiosyncratic behavior is hurting their own country more.  

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

7 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The WHO has not earned my trust as they failed miserably and have shown complicity with the CCP.  Three times now, where did it all go wrong?  I think it's safe to assume that the WHO is not working as you outlined.  One can only make suppositions at this point as to why.

Don’t think WHO will be too concerned that they didn’t earn your trust. 142 WHO member states have maintained their faith and made formal pledges to support the Organisation and share results and learning internationally. EU has raised 8B to support WHO in vaccine and medicines. US and Trump are the odd entities that opted out from global cooperation and the increasing infections and deaths from COVID-19 and their long delaying attempt in developing a vaccine seem to point that their idiosyncratic behavior is hurting their own country more.  

The majority believe A is true so A must be true.

 

Here's their donation page for you.

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/donate

[Dumbastheycome]

While it can not be denied that the WHO can justifiably be criticized for errors at and over various issues which provide evidence of the need for reforms I wonder how the world  would cope without it?

Perhaps the USA will provide  some clues if it actually proceeds to completely withdraw from it and presumably is denied in all and every which way any access to the  general activities of the WHO including the vast amount of research undertaken in  many many countries?

 

 

 

[candide]

2 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

While it can not be denied that the WHO can justifiably be criticized for errors at and over various issues which provide evidence of the need for reforms I wonder how the world  would cope without it?

Perhaps the USA will provide  some clues if it actually proceeds to completely withdraw from it and presumably is denied in all and every which way any access to the  general activities of the WHO including the vast amount of research undertaken in  many many countries?

 

 

 

Most of the WHO activity is directed towards developping countries, so it may not affect much the US. Additionally, the US has much more resources (HHS budget: 1.2 trillion per year) than the WHO (budget: 2.4 billion per year), so it should not be affected by a withdrawal.

 

The only drawback is that it will likely lose most access to insider's information at the WHO, as it will not have a seat at the executive board anymore, nor in key committees. 

[simple1]

On 9/28/2020 at 9:47 PM, candide said:

Most of the WHO activity is directed towards developping countries, so it may not affect much the US. Additionally, the US has much more resources (HHS budget: 1.2 trillion per year) than the WHO (budget: 2.4 billion per year), so it should not be affected by a withdrawal.

 

The only drawback is that it will likely lose most access to insider's information at the WHO, as it will not have a seat at the executive board anymore, nor in key committees. 

For me the issue is trump's insistence on America First without, so far as I'm aware, policy, resources and funding commitments to assist countries less fortunate with health care matters.

[kingdong]

On 9/26/2020 at 11:33 AM, Bender Rodriguez said:

what does WHO do with all those billions ?

 

make vaccines ? distribute them ?   pay millions to CEO ?

 

this is TAX PAYERS money and still, whatever they make, will be made for big profits

exactly,trump had the right idea when he told them to whistle for their money,after 6months they still can,t decide if we should wear a mask or not,shower of <deleted>.

[kingdong]

On 9/27/2020 at 12:12 PM, Kinnock said:

We're honoured to have Dr Tedros join our humble forum - as nobody else on the planet could believe this.

a warm welcome to dr tedros,perhaps you,d like to join us in our weekly mensa meeting held at 3 pm first thursday of the month at the kate siree bar,soi buakow