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Boss trying to force through a resignation letter


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Trying to help out an non-Thai, non-English native with a dodgy situation

 

They work for a very small expat owned business.

 

Owner has decided he has to let friend go, due to Covid's impact on money coming into the company.

 

He agreed in principle to let the employment run through until December, when the work permit will expire. Although work will be non existent/part time/extremely casual from now until then.

 

He's recently demanded that friend signs a letter of resignation (weirdly in English, not Thai or his language) dated for the end of this month.

 

No explanation of why he requires this has been forthcoming. I assume he wants to avoid paying severance, and wants paperwork to show friend has decided to leave the company, rather than 'being let go' by boss's hand. Pretty classic nasty business tactic for this nationality.

 

Obviously, friend doesn't want to sign on the simple basis that friend simply hasn't resigned, they've been made redundant.

 

They also need time to get affairs in order or move on to another job. Something the boss agreed to verbally when informing about the end of employment. I presume a signed resignation will be sent to Dep of Labour and result in a cancelled work permit. Not to mention Immigration Dep, as I assume any time spent in Thailand   after the date of resignation is technically overstay.

 

Any advice for this situation?

 

How much trouble can the boss cause? Is it plausible for them to report to immigration that the friend is no longer employed, thus cancelling their visa extension?

 

I should mention the boss is a dumb as a post, in the medieval era they wouldn't let him milk a cow. He also doesn't speak a word of English or Thai, which would make communication with gov departments a challenge.

Edited by mankindmatt5
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20 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Non-Thai, non-English speaking friend

He said non-English native.

 

20 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

If they are non-thai and non-english speaking, how exactly did YOU communicate with said friend?

All three of them could be French, then there shouldn't be a communication problem between them.

 

@OP

Just don't sign the resignation ????

But even if not signing it, and then getting fired, it sounds like the boss might be reluctant to pay severance.

This would then mean going through labor court, but from what i have read here on Thaivisa, they seem to be very pro-employee.

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7 minutes ago, jackdd said:

He said non-English native.

 

All three of them could be French, then there shouldn't be a communication problem between them.

 

@OP

Just don't sign the resignation ????

But even if not signing it, and then getting fired, it sounds like the boss might be reluctant to pay severance.

This would then mean going through labor court, but from what i have read here on Thaivisa, they seem to be very pro-employee.

They are pro-employee but you need to be able to speak Thai or take someone along who can. Also, if an employer wants they can drag the case on for several years. Still, I wouldn't sign any resignation letter because you completely lose all your bargaining chips.

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1 minute ago, edwardandtubs said:

They are pro-employee but you need to be able to speak Thai or take someone along who can. Also, if an employer wants they can drag the case on for several years. Still, I wouldn't sign any resignation letter because you completely lose all your bargaining chips.

 

Except that refusing to sign may result in termination tomorrow...  That's the one real bargaining chip he does have.

 

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29 minutes ago, impulse said:

Rock....Hard Place

 

If he signs the resignation letter (I'd date it in December), the boss keeps him on for 3 more months and the boss doesn't have to pay severance because he resigned.

 

If he doesn't sign, the boss has nothing to lose by running him off tomorrow, cancelling his WP and permission to stay and counting on him being unavailable to fight the Labor Department case, because he's had to leave Thailand.  Maybe the boss ends up paying severance, but probably not.  It's a pretty common practice.

 

You also didn't mention the other particulars, like what business, whether there's a snowball's chance in Hell of your friend finding another job in Covid Thailand, how much severance will be due, whether he has reason to stay in Thailand to fight a (probably piddly) severance case, etc.  I'd sure hate to waste a month of my life unemployed in Thailand to fight for a couple of thousand $$$.

It may be time to play nice with the boss, even while being screwed out of a (few?) months' severance and take advantage of the next 3 months to line up something else to do, whether that's in Thailand or somewhere else.  Of course, if the amnesty is extended, that changes the dynamic because there may be some more time to fight the severance case before being forced out of the country.

 

Edit:  And I hate to admit it, but the nationality of the boss is a factor.  Some nationalities will squeeze a nickel until the Indian cries, and know how to work a corrupt flexible system to their advantage.

 

My advice was the same. Agree to the resignation, but post dated to December. The time is probably more valuable than the severance in this case.

 

If they don't agree to a post dated resignation, it's just a concern that the document exists with a confirmed date of resignation, and any havoc the boss could wreak with Labor and Immigration departments with that.

 

Anyway, thanks for the advice

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If it is being requested by the boss and company, could he not just tender resignation post dated and in the letter state according to request of boss name, company that one has been requested to tender resignation as of december 2020 and the resignation date requested is effective dec 2020 and is made without prejudice.

 

Edited by userabcd
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20 hours ago, mankindmatt5 said:

My advice was the same. Agree to the resignation, but post dated to December. The time is probably more valuable than the severance in this case.

I wouldn't ask the boss to post date it either, just do up a copy of the resignation letter with the new date and give that to the boss. Up to the boss to justify any demand to not have it post dated then, which he can't really do without showing his hand.

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20 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

Also, if an employer wants they can drag the case on for several years.

 

No. The Labour Protection Court are quick to conclude cases. Even if both sides do not agree at all and cannot agree a compromise the entire case will be decided by a Judge in just a few months. Few companies appeal from the Labour Protection Court because the law in this area is quite specific.

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2 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

No. The Labour Protection Court are quick to conclude cases. Even if both sides do not agree at all and cannot agree a compromise the entire case will be decided by a Judge in just a few months. Few companies appeal from the Labour Protection Court because the law in this area is quite specific.

Absolutely right. Dont sign a thing and go to labor inspector, however bring someone to translate in Thai. 

Labor inspector will hear you, investigate and do first handling and recommendations, orders.

If employer doesnt agree, then it will go to court.

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How much trouble can the boss cause? Is it plausible for them to report to immigration that the friend is no longer employed, thus cancelling their visa extension?

 

  Be very careful. When the day comes, the Immigration wants to see a letter when his/her last day was. From that day on, might the Overstay start.

 

  It's much better not to trust this employer and seek help from somebody at Immigration.

 

If he/she resigns, there's no chance to receive severance pay, and your friend should never do that.

 

  If communication is an issue, find somebody who speaks the employer's language to be sure that your friend doesn't go on overstay without knowing it.

 

  If I were your friend, I'd make sure to know that I'm still employed, not just by hearsay. 

 

 

   

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25 minutes ago, happyaussie said:

Mention the terms in the resignation letter and have the employer co-sign first. If he refuses then you know his "real" intensions. 

Probably best to bite the bullet and leave. I'm sure he is not alone.

Yes, never understood why employees try to hang on when they already know the inevitable and are not needed anymore.

 

Best just to move on and get another job.

Edited by userabcd
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3 hours ago, userabcd said:

Yes, never understood why employees try to hang on when they already know the inevitable and are not needed anymore.

 

Best just to move on and get another job.

I agree totally. Best thing to do is sign a post dated resignation, allowing plenty of time to find a new sponsor.

 

Unfortunately with the Covid situation, losing your job means having a week to pack your bags and leave the country, without a clue of when being able to return in the near future.

 

If visa runs were up and running, this would barely be an issue.

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I've seen this sort of thing quite a few times over the years, this is my laymans take on it.

 

If they have any reason to fire the individual and there is any level of grey to those reasons normally they will ask for resignation and pay them something, i.e a potentially win/win. If not they terminate, you don't get paid and have 5 days to leave country, you can appeal and that's the companies risk which if you win the company will need to pay legal severence and may even have to re-employ you which would be a nightmare all round.

 

Redundancy, again they may ask for resignation so no risk of challenge later but they should pay severence in full. Often here you would post date a resignation letter to an agreed date, go on garden leave and look for a new job, that post date would allow you to keep your visa, easier to find a job when you still have one and also compensate for the severence pay.

 

Its tough at these times when they cannot afford a person and they cannot also afford to pay severence due to covid, I understand that all companies must keep in reserves enough money to cover severence of all employees but this is not always the case particularly for small companies.  Some companies argue for indefinite unpaid leave at this point which could be a big loser for individuals as it could be forever, not sure on legal side of that but I would not agree to that unless it was say for a specific period to help keep the company afloat during this time.

 

It gets a bit more unscrupulous if companies use the 5 days notice and loss of right to be in Thailand to force down payments to employees, that may be the case here and in this case maybe best to register a complaint but weigh up the hassle of that if its only a small amount. Best to avoid this sort of company.

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