American expat charged with defamation after leaving multiple negative reviews online

[mrmicbkktxl]

2 minutes ago, CM Dad said:

Restaurants sell food and drink in order to make money.  Bringing any food or drink from outside of the restaurant is unacceptable. 

Not in Thailand

[Neeranam]

23 minutes ago, polpott said:

I don't suggest anything I just state facts. What language do you think Thai courts use?

You've already stated the fact and you suggest speaking Thai is disadvantageous to the Yank. 

[polpott]

Just now, Neeranam said:

You've already stated the fact and you suggest speaking Thai is disadvantageous to the Yank. 

Isn't that a fact?

[Suua]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me".

We learned this in nursery school. ????

[JensenZ]

46 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

1 hour ago, polpott said:

You and I but a Thai court doesn't think that way. They'll hear the rich thai with connections giving evidence in thai and the poor American goes down for the max.

What language do suggest a Thai court use - simplified English, as spoken in the USA?

The defender has full right to hire a translator that can explain everything to him, and the judges are usually patient enough to allow translators to communicate, however, the whole defence is best left to a good lawyer (getting a good one ready to genuinely defend a foreigner is another matter entirely).

 

However, in this case, there is no way Mr Barnes could defend himself against the allegations, in any language. His published reviews were extremely defamatory and there is nothing he can say in his defence with respect to the defamation laws in Thailand that can help his case. The reviews were so punishingly defamatory that he might get the maximum sentence if he cannot or will not negotiate a settlement.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by JensenZ

[herwin1234]

23 minutes ago, snowgard said:

I don't know why the most people on TV believe: "This is only in Thailand!!!"

This is not true!!! In almost ALL countries now business owners start defamation cases against people who made false reviews. But you all close your eyes for this.

If you want to see the reality just google for: defamation case false review

very well said! almost all countries rightfully have laws to protect oneself from unfair cyberbullying.

 

Cyberbullying is a real problem, and its very unfair, with just a mouseclick away, any angry idiot can seriously damage an individual person or a business. 

 

and, this is not about one angry but honest review, this is a serious attempt to damage this resort with multiple false reviews. 

 

No slap on the wrist pls, jailtime is apropiate.

Edited September 27, 2020 by herwin1234

[kensisaket]

Someone mentioned that he brought everything on himself.  I couldn't agree more.  In the middle of this pandemic (June) a resort/hotel turned him away telling him to go book online.  There had to be 10+ other places probably within walking distance that would have gladly welcomed any paying customer.  Just leave.  That 500 baht charge for the bottle of gin he brought in sounds about right to me; especially, at a 6000 baht a night hotel. On top of that inserting himself into a situation between a manager; and, an employee with absolutely no knowledge of the situation is just plain stupid. He's going to pay for that stupidity. It may not be jail time; but, his wallet is going to be a lot thinner after this is over.  

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by kensisaket

[JensenZ]

17 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You've already stated the fact and you suggest speaking Thai is disadvantageous to the Yank. 

Even if he could speak Thai he would be better off not to, as it's unlikely his Thai would be advanced enough to include legal Jargon. His lawyer should do all the talking and he should have an interpreter there.

 

The case will not proceed until he's had the opportunity to mediate with the plaintiff, so the language problems are not a consideration until he's really in the sh*t.

[ClassySmasher]

There are almost no Americans left working in Asia. The Chinese intelligence scams them out of money and puts fake charges on them, infilitration

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, Don Mega said:

are you going to sue Nout ?

 

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

The feelings of Mr Barnes, as written in his review, are not any kind of truth. They are just how he felt. He made subjective opinions about how he felt about the staff and his treatment at the hotel. Should a person be able to damage the reputation of an hotel based on his subjective feelings. There are always difficult guests at every hotel.

 

This has nothing to do with saving face. Damaging an hotel's reputation affects their profitability. This is about money, not face.

Again you have missed the point - Face may or may not be money - it doesn't matter what he wrote and your opinion is subjective - the hotel is basically suing for loss of face so it doesn't matter if it is fact or fiction or somewhere in between - it is a flaw in Thai law.......

[herwin1234]

46 minutes ago, lkv said:

Some call it Thainess/Thai culture, I call it Banana Republic.

 

Edit. Apologies, Kingdom.

Its not culture, its about defamation laws and many if not most countries have similar laws to protect oneself against unfair defamation.

 

So why chose to live here if you find it a "banana republic" ?  Obviously this country is offering you something that isnt available to you in your own superior country, so why the denigrating attitude?

[Razek]

21 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Fully deserved , using websites to attack a resort, all because they wouldnt let him beer from 7/11 in 

 

And why they did not let

Him bring beer from outside.

I never saw this in 13 Year Experience with thsi Hotel.

I will never go to this Hotel

[Airbagwill]

I think there are so many putzes on this thread who are defending an indefensible situation under Thai law.....in a civilised country this is no way too sort out this problem

Firstly it highlights the dreadful standards of customer service and fair trading in this country and secondly in what country is anyone ARRESTED for slander or libel"? It's a civil offence for the most part.

 

Basically this is a classic example of the lack of civil rights in Thailand.

[JensenZ]

36 minutes ago, snowgard said:

I don't know why the most people on TV believe: "This is only in Thailand!!!"

This is not true!!! In almost ALL countries now business owners start defamation cases against people who made false reviews. But you all close your eyes for this.

If you want to see the reality just google for: defamation case false review

Actually, you could be wrong here. Defamation is always a criminal offense in Thailand whereas in other countries it is mainly a civil matter, and very rarely criminal. This could very well be a "this is only in Thailand" issue.

 

Of course there are 195 countries, so who knows? It would take a lot of research to single Thailand out. Thailand does have some "only in Thailand" laws.

Edited September 27, 2020 by JensenZ

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, Airbagwill said:

I think there are so many putzes on this thread who are defending an indefensible situation under Thai law.....in a civilised country this is no way too sort out this problem

Firstly it highlights the dreadful standards of customer service and fair trading in this country and secondly in what country is anyone ARRESTED for slander or libel"? It's a civil offence for the most part.

 

Basically this is a classic example of the lack of civil rights in Thailand.

A civil right to attack a business , possibly bankrupting the business on false accusations ?

Is that a "civil right " ?

[polpott]

5 minutes ago, herwin1234 said:

Its not culture, its about defamation laws and many if not most countries have similar laws to protect oneself against unfair defamation.

 

Name one Western country where defamation is a criminal offence,

[Razek]

He is a lucky man. They did not threw him from the 8 Floor saying suicide.

I will never go to this Hotel as support.

In Asia Hotel pattaya you pay for a Room for 2 Peoples with big bed. But if you come with a lady, friend or girlfriend you must pay a Tax of 20 Dollars.

What you say about this?

Is it fair?

Edited September 27, 2020 by Razek

[P100]

Rule number 1 is the guest is always right. Even in proud and stubborn Thailand. Settle it with your guest instead of let him be jailed! How bad your reputation now become! I won't ever stay there even if it was the guest who misbehaved. The hotel should be able to handle such situation professionally. And sometimes you have to appologize even if you are right.

 

Because such battle you can never win, your reputation is in free fall.

 

But there is probably much more to the story. Maybe the way the hotel personnel treated the guest? Maybe that nobody informed or agreed upon such a fee? We just don't know the entire story I guess...

[Razek]

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

Name one Western country where defamation is a criminal offence,

The case of Musk Tesla chef in America where he said about someone ped....

[CG1 Blue]

7 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I think there are so many putzes on this thread who are defending an indefensible situation under Thai law.....in a civilised country this is no way too sort out this problem

Firstly it highlights the dreadful standards of customer service and fair trading in this country and secondly in what country is anyone ARRESTED for slander or libel"? It's a civil offence for the most part.

 

Basically this is a classic example of the lack of civil rights in Thailand.

Their are many putzes on this thread who think it's ok for a guy to cheat a business out of revenue by drinking their own booze in the restaurant, and then set off on an obsessive smear campaign making wild and serious accusations likely to further harm that business. 

[JensenZ]

8 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Again you have missed the point - Face may or may not be money - it doesn't matter what he wrote and your opinion is subjective - the hotel is basically suing for loss of face so it doesn't matter if it is fact or fiction or somewhere in between - it is a flaw in Thai law.......

It looks like you're the one missing quite a bit here.

 

This is all about money. If it repairs some people's faces, then that's an added bonus. There will be two money grabs here. First, in a court mediation session before the criminal case proper goes to trial, and after the criminal case, there will be a huge demand for damages in a civil case. The lawyer will take a healthy percentage too.

[tomazbodner]

I read both his side and the filing, which has screenshots of what he says he never published.

 

Given that, I have little sympathy for him. It was a personal attack on the resort and especially Czech manager.

[CorpusChristie]

10 minutes ago, polpott said:

Name one Western country where defamation is a criminal offence,

The U.K.

You can sue for defamation in the U.K.

[CorpusChristie]

4 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

It looks like you're the one missing quite a bit here.

 

This is all about money. If it repairs some people's faces, then that's an added bonus. There will be two money grabs here. First, in a court mediation session before the criminal case proper goes to trial, and after the criminal case, there will be a huge demand for damages in a civil case. The lawyer will take a healthy percentage too.

Doesnt seem that way , the hotel wants him to stop his campaign against them and for him to pay for any damage he has caused

[JensenZ]

17 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I think there are so many putzes on this thread who are defending an indefensible situation under Thai law.....in a civilised country this is no way too sort out this problem

Firstly it highlights the dreadful standards of customer service and fair trading in this country and secondly in what country is anyone ARRESTED for slander or libel"? It's a civil offence for the most part.

 

Basically this is a classic example of the lack of civil rights in Thailand.

This case does in no way highlight "dreadful standards of customer service and fair trading in this country".

 

All it is, on the face of it, is one customer making his own personal feelings known in some online reviews. Do you believe all you read online? It is one person's opinion and he could have said anything at all.

 

It only highlights one thing. It is easy for anyone, at a keystroke, to destroy anyone's reputation online, requiring no evidence whatsoever. This actually makes the Thai law seem reasonable in this case.

Edited September 27, 2020 by JensenZ

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Doesnt seem that way , the hotel wants him to stop his campaign against them and for him to pay for any damage he has caused

It is that way. The hotel tried communicating with him first, asking him to remove the reviews and to cease publishing more in the future. He refused so the hotel had no other recourse. They were reasonable at the start, now he has to pay.

[Razek]

The Manager is from Czech. Czech is an Ex communist. poor coutry is poor than thailand.Czeck is not a western country is a Carbage country

He is a lucky man. They did not threw him from the 8 Floor saying suicide.

I will never go tp this Hotel as support.

In Asia Hotel pattaya you pay for a Room for 2 Peoples with big bed. But of you come with a lady friend or girlfriend you must pay a Tax of 20 Dollars.

What you say about this?

Is it fair?

 

[CG1 Blue]

1 minute ago, Razek said:

The Manager is from Czech. Czech is an Ex communist. poor coutry is poor than thailand.Czeck is not a western country is a Carbage country

He is a lucky man. They did not threw him from the 8 Floor saying suicide.

I will never go tp this Hotel as support.

In Asia Hotel pattaya you pay for a Room for 2 Peoples with big bed. But of you come with a lady friend or girlfriend you must pay a Tax of 20 Dollars.

What you say about this?

Is it fair?

 

I would say the lady who went back to your hotel with you drew the short straw 

[JensenZ]

19 minutes ago, polpott said:

Name one Western country where defamation is a criminal offence,

Interestingly, apparently they can be.

 

As an Australian, I investigated the offense in Australia and people have served prison time. I have no idea about other countries.

 

This is what I read: (I hope this is not going too far off-topic).

 

https://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/defamation.html#:~:text=Australian laws include offence provisions,reputation and penalties are monetary.&text=Criminal prosecution for defamation is rare in Australia.

Civil and Criminal Defamation

Australian laws include offence provisions for civil defamation and criminal defamation.

Civil liability arises from publications likely to harm a person's reputation and penalties are monetary.

Criminal liability arises from publications that affect the community, such as those that have a tendency to endanger the public peace, and penalties in most jurisdictions include imprisonment. Generally, proceedings for criminal defamation are commenced by law enforcement authorities. (In most jurisdictions, a private prosecution concerning criminal defamation requires the prior consent of, for example, the Director of Public Prosecutions, the Attorney-General, or a court order.)

Criminal prosecution for defamation is rare in Australia. However, within the last decade (since 1990) people have been imprisoned in Australia for criminal defamation (the most recently notorious being former WA Liberal Premier, Ray O'Connor).

There are significant differences between civil and criminal defamation law relative to liability, defences, etc. The remainder of this document addresses civil, not criminal, defamation laws.

 

 

[QPRFC]

21 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

For goodness sake. Taking outside alcohol into a restaurant anywhere in the world is a no no unless you ask for permission.

No it ain't, it's a regular occurrence in Australia and NZ. Fully acceptable.