American expat charged with defamation after leaving multiple negative reviews online

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

I have read all the material available. And thank God I am not a lawyer! Because this looks like a very tough one to judge. Certainly the guest is using a very (almost extraordinarily) harsh language in his reviews, but the question is whether a reviewer is obliged to be able to prove his claims. I agree with the restaurant that words like "slavery" and "coronavirus" certainly are very strong! But on the other hand, freedom of speech is so da*n important, in order to ensure de facto democracy, to ensure the absence of abuse of power. I think it had to be recorded, in order for third parties to be able to judge correctly. But very well this could be a guest's inflated ego causing unnecessary problems. Tough one!

[nausea]

You know the rules. Pissing off someone in Thailand is always gonna end badly. This ain't Kansas. Why guys do this is beyond me, like you're living in paradise, why muck it up.

[Purdey]

I do look at positive and negative reviews online before staying somewhere. If the guy was the only one with a one star, and 50 others had a four star rating, I might go there. When I read that a hotel is suing a customer for a one star review, I certainly won't go or write a review in fear of the legal peril. Whatever next? Only 5 star reviews allowed?

One thing for certain is, the British press will leap on this with incredulity and hammer the country for suing customers. It won't matter if the customer was bad or not. This will not help the tourist or hospitality industry here. Damaging the reputation of the industry is a lot worse that this chump will have done with his one star review.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Purdey said:

I do look at positive and negative reviews online before staying somewhere. If the guy was the only one with a one star, and 50 others had a four star rating, I might go there. When I read that a hotel is suing a customer for a one star review, I certainly won't go or write a review in fear of the legal peril. Whatever next? Only 5 star reviews allowed?

One thing for certain is, the British press will leap on this with incredulity and hammer the country for suing customers. It won't matter if the customer was bad or not. This will not help the tourist or hospitality industry here. Damaging the reputation of the industry is a lot worse that this chump will have done with his one star review.

The Hotel only went to the police after the 4th negative review 6-8 weeks after the person left the hotel and he ignored emails from both the hotel and tripadvisor and when contacted by phone refused to discuss the issue.

They also claimed to have contacted Barnes prior to taking legal action: “Despite out multiple efforts to contact him to resolve this in an amicable way for well over a month, he chose to ignore use completely

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/tourist-jail-thailand-resort-negative-tripadvisor-reviews-b668589.html

 

It will be interesting how Tripadvisor responds as their entire business model is built on and dependent on reviews

[Blumpie]

Welcome to Thailand. What you think is right and wrong regards American law doesn't apply here.  

[scubascuba3]

The problem is you do get trolls who are very brave behind the keyboard, we've all seen them on Twitter, Facebook and forums, they go too far, but you should be allowed to give reviews without fear, the system works all over the world

[Curt1591]

2 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

Your reviews all look good to me , so i will stay with you one day. Good luck.

 

It's amazing how simple misunderstandings can turn into complete hissy fits! 

[stevenl]

On 9/27/2020 at 12:35 AM, DirtyHarry55 said:

When the resort sighed up for TripAdvisor they probably agreed to their "Terms & Condition" of which one is probably "you will not file Criminal charges against customer Reviews" ( or similar ).
Tripadvisor have the responsibility to protect customers by either by banning reviews completely from Thailand or at least banning the resorts who file Criminal charges against customers for bad reviews.
Google, Booking and Agoda should do the same. Sometimes you get good reviews sometimes bad grow up and live with it.

From what I understand he spent 3 days in prison and paid 100,000 for bail now imagine if that was you because you left a bad review on Google or TA.

This is more than just a bad review.

 

Tourism businesses don't have to sign up, when someone reviews or refers to a business on TripAdvisor that business is present, no signing up required.

 

Tripadvisor wants businesses and reviews, banning is against their business interest.

[vinny41]

37 minutes ago, Blumpie said:

Welcome to Thailand. What you think is right and wrong regards American law doesn't apply here.  

Tripadvisor has in the past tried unsuccessfully to claim they are outside the jurisdiction of UK law and therefore couldn't be sued in the UK

Until now TripAdvisor emphatically denied it was subject to UK laws and thus cannot be sued in Britain.

It previously challenged the jurisdiction of the Scottish court claiming the firm is headquartered in Massachusetts in the United States which is outwith the remit of the Scotland’s legal system

http://www.hebrides-news.com/hebridean_b&b_victory_against_tripadvisor_121012.html

[rott]

2 hours ago, Oldie said:

I really can't afford to stay in a hotel that creates so many troubles. If you are dealing with customers you will always have happy and unhappy customers. And for a manager it is part of the job to transform unhappy customers to happy customers. Even without reviews - every unhappy customer is a lost customer. 

The old business adage is that you never win an argument with a customer. 

 

And in a dispute between a Thai and a foreigner, the foreigner usually has an uphill battle. But with all the publicity here the end result will be interesting. 

[Guest]

Boy, as somebody who spent 45 years in the crisis communications business, I can tell you it's not easy to be stupid enough to turn a minor customer dispute into a New York Times front-page global scandal, but here's proof positive, it can be done.

 

Folks, it does not matter whether this guy was right, wrong, a rube, rude, vindictive...the resort wanted the story to die and then did the one single thing it could have done to ENSHRINE IT in global attention. 

 

[ChipButty]

8 minutes ago, Alex25 said:

Boy, as somebody who spend 45 years in the crisis communications business, I can tell you it's not easy to be stupid enough to turn a minor dispute into a New York Times front-page scandal, but here's proof positive, it can be done.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/world/asia/thailand-koh-chang-defamation.html?action=click&algo=bandit-story&block=more_in_recirc&fellback=false&imp_id=249456073&impression_id=907da5c1-017f-11eb-9b98-d327845666d2&index=2&pgtype=Article&region=footer&req_id=292707552&surface=more-in-world-news

Your link is not working, but I know what you mean

[mark131v]

7 minutes ago, Alex25 said:

Boy, as somebody who spend 45 years in the crisis communications business, I can tell you it's not easy to be stupid enough to turn a minor dispute into a New York Times front-page scandal, but here's proof positive, it can be done.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/world/asia/thailand-koh-chang-defamation.html?action=click&algo=bandit-story&block=more_in_recirc&fellback=false&imp_id=249456073&impression_id=907da5c1-017f-11eb-9b98-d327845666d2&index=2&pgtype=Article&region=footer&req_id=292707552&surface=more-in-world-news

Thanks for that you just summed it up nicely!!

 

World news, front pages, critical examination, reckon this hotel has turned into a nightmare for TaT and the tourism industry in general and rightly so

 

Highlights how 'face' is keeping this country back the fact this comes on the back of red bull and the student protest's doesn't help. There's a saying any publicity is good publicity, well in this case I disagree...

 

 

 

 

[Puzzler]

Personally I think he gets whatever comes if he was being defamatory. He sounds like a mean spirited idiot to me....

[NY2Thailand]

It amazes me that some would like to equate the law as being bad because it can be used by the authorities, and others, to intimidate or surpress freedom of speech. The issue isn't the law itself, so stop with all that. Any law can be mis-applied (or even disregarded altogether, given the country, and circumstances in question). I simply don't understand how anyone can find fault with the resort in this instance. This is a clear case of the law being used exactly how it was intended. Had the guest simply left a review about his experience (the corkage fee) and not set out on a campaign to harm the business in question, he would not be in prison today. The resort has received bad reveiws in the past and accepted them - as they accurately point out. But we can not have a world where anyone and everyone is entitled to say (or post) whatever they want - wherever they want and whenever they want - even if the information being presented is false. And if you read the entirety of this guest's reviews, he clearly crosses the line more than once. No one should not be able to defame or slander a person, or business, and exepct to get away with it. And those terms aren't open to interpetation to the degree some would like to imply. Using that logic everything is open to interpretaion, a nice viewpoint if you want to abuse the law, or others. I have seen many other instances where someone was clearly on a vendetta against some entity or another in a public forum, and wondered why action wasn't being taken. I'm very happy to see it was in this case.

Edited September 28, 2020 by NY2Thailand

[oldhippy]

4 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

Wake up , we are not all the same even if this is how so many like you think.

That same poster that called me a racist for saying Thais are struggling to get out of the 19th century, later made it clear that he does not like Thais from Chinese ancestry.

On 9/26/2020 at 7:25 PM, Neeranam said:

What a truly racist, Thai-bashing post, you should be ashamed. I've no idea why you foreigners want to live here.

[Flying Saucage]

Worth reading comment on this case:

 

https://travelfish.substack.com/p/travelfish-404-dont-like-our-hotel?fbclid=IwAR1nw-i1EBYvBczpEaZwT9RyxiOHFh7X2HYzWvS9ePF0FX7sOzUvhp2E8jc

[4reaL]

Story hit the NY Times today.

555

 

[JensenZ]

9 hours ago, hellohello123 said:

highly highly unlikely,

 

for those that claim they get sick within 30 mins are usually exaggerating, or its psychological

You said it is impossible, but it is possible.  

 

Extending the time to 1 hour and beyond increases the likelihood. The fasts one are the ones people tend to remember the most. People often fine dine for 1 or 2 hours in nice restaurants.

 

I have experienced a toxic reaction to shiitake mushrooms in under 30 minutes and had to rush home... on 2 occasions. 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by JensenZ

[mettech]

I am writing from Canada for now and heard this story on one of the local radio station and they were faking out about the possibility to get jail time for bad reviews of course they do not know the full extent of what happened and yet blaming the policy of Thailand too bad if they do not abide by the country they visit laws they will end up like this American fellow.

 

[Meat Pie 47]

20 hours ago, sotonowl said:

Oh when the big mouths meet the ones who can't accept criticism, does it have to come to this. Sounds like the yank can't accept that he can just walk all over people and the hotel really should have nipped this in the bud. They're complaining about poor reviews? Well get ready, I suspect you'll be getting quite a few now.

But really, should it make the internet? Get a life guys.

Yes I was thinking about that's why Trip Advisor is there for to voice your opinion.

Whether it is right or wrong it is not a criminal case at all.

[jcsmith]

The whole point of review sites is to be able to give an honest review good or bad. If people can be sued or jailed for bad reviews then everyplace would have a 5 star rating. Now as for the rest of the story it seems it would be a he said/she said and we can't pretend to know the full details. But if they can jail someone for a negative review then they may as well ban reviews in Thailand.

Edited September 28, 2020 by jcsmith

[CorpusChristie]

14 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

The whole point of review sites is to be able to give an honest review good or bad. If people can be sued or jailed for bad reviews then everyplace would have a 5 star rating. Now as for the rest of the story it seems it would be a he said/she said and we can't pretend to know the full details. But if they can jail someone for a negative review then they may as well ban reviews in Thailand.

No, the guy didnt not give an honest review . He lied and attacked the establishment because they wouldn't allow him to take 7/11 alcohol in 

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

No, the guy didnt not give an honest review . He lied and attacked the establishment because they wouldn't allow him to take 7/11 alcohol in 

If that is true, let him rot in prison for some years, next shoot him. Taking 7/11 alcohol in..... what has this world come to?

[torturedsole]

7 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

If that is true, let him rot in prison for some years, next shoot him. 

Defamation isn't a capital offence.

 

7 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Taking 7/11 alcohol in..... what has this world come to?

7/11 alcohol was perfectly permissible but corkage was required to be settled for the agency.  

[TimBKK]

14 hours ago, 4reaL said:

Story hit the NY Times today.

555

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/28/world/asia/thailand-koh-chang-defamation.html

 

American Could Face Prison in Thailand After Posting Negative Reviews of a Resort

The man was arrested under Thailand’s criminal defamation law, which has been used to silence critics and stifle dissent. The hotel that brought charges acknowledges that using the law might be “excessive.”
 

An American man who lives in Thailand was unhappy that a resort hotel wanted to charge him a $15 corkage fee for bringing his own bottle of gin to the restaurant.

Edited September 29, 2020 by metisdead
14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[torturedsole]

Quote

TripAdvisor issued a statement saying that it was investigating the incident and that it was against anyone being prosecuted for the content of a review. “TripAdvisor is opposed to the idea that a traveler can be prosecuted for expressing opinions,” the company said. “Thankfully, on a global basis, prosecutions like this are rare and hundreds of millions of travelers are able to express themselves freely without facing criminal charges.”

TripAdvisor should have also added the reminder to read up on local laws before you <deleted> off to La La Land for your holidays or teaching exploits.

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by torturedsole

[Andycoops]

More damage to the Thai tourist reputation.

This story is now in the main stream media, newspapers and radio, in the UK.

Add the requirement to show half a million baht in a bank account and you can kiss the western tourists goodbye.

[Don Mega]

5 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

Add the requirement to show half a million baht in a bank account and you can kiss the western tourists goodbye.

Since when ?

[torturedsole]

14 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

Add the requirement to show half a million baht in a bank account and you can kiss the western tourists goodbye.

Tourists only require to evidence 20k baht in available funds. Not that there's any tourists anyway, so moot point.