Medical expert warns of disaster if govt eases quarantine restrictions for tourists

[Mark Nothing]

7 hours ago, Captor said:

 

Knowledge is the antidote to fear.

 

Fear causes you to willingly throw away all your rights so you can be safe. 

 

Start your research on what causes the cold and flu.  Hint: not an invisible "virus" that is "contagious".

 

 

[paulikens]

He said global virus cases now averaged 350,000 per day, a million every three days. what he forgets to mention is there is 7 and half a million active cases the only number that matters and only 65000 serious or critical. a running total is a irrelevant number otherwise a total rolling number for flu would be over 78 billion, the worlds population.  as usual a expert scaremongering.   you'd never leave the house if you listened to experts.

[Flying Saucage]

4 minutes ago, paulikens said:

He said global virus cases now averaged 350,000 per day, a million every three days. what he forgets to mention is there is 7 and half a million active cases the only number that matters and only 65000 serious or critical. a running total is a irrelevant number otherwise a total rolling number for flu would be over 78 billion, the worlds population.  as usual a expert scaremongering.   you'd never leave the house if you listened to experts.

Agree. Why do they not publish the number of newly recovered cases per day? The number those who get rid of the virus per day?

Edited September 28, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[jerolamo]

"Expert" has been paid how much by big pharma industry to make people afraid the time a vaccine goes out to force everybody or blackmail them to buy vaccine ?

It is the end f the story time, people are not stupid, more and more they understand now, the COVID-19 power is down, closer to a season flue; in my country we know that because, first, we are testing each week 2 times more than Thailand did test from the very first start and we see exactly what's happening and how.

The crooks story is no more possible, they just loose their own reputation and expose themselves to be judge later to scam their own country, their own population.

Stop to lie for scammer paid by pharmaceutic industry, and stop to be afraid like child for population under porpaganda, it will have definitely no disaster, and the virus is also everywhere in Thailand already and from the begining (they just deny or don't want to know... everybody know how they do when they don't want to see the factual true).

[jerolamo]

11 minutes ago, paulikens said:

He said global virus cases now averaged 350,000 per day, a million every three days. what he forgets to mention is there is 7 and half a million active cases the only number that matters and only 65000 serious or critical. a running total is a irrelevant number otherwise a total rolling number for flu would be over 78 billion, the worlds population.  as usual a expert scaremongering.   you'd never leave the house if you listened to experts.

i want to force them to look closer how much they had been paid by pharmaceutic industry lobbyist to make buddies afraid and deny sciences facts. There is interest conflict and it should be illegal because it is the open door for scam.

Big money when the vaccine is coming... it is an international scam. Do you know how much money pharmaceutic industry have ? More than a little country !

They want to make people life down until the vaccine coming, then next force everybody to paid for vaccine... it will be also absolutely unsafe, but never mind, huge money is coming (for them only).

It is a demonstration of free market mafia world business style.

[Prince77]

21 hours ago, GeneH said:

My question is this, are they even testing people in Thailand? I've heard stories of people crossing the Myanmar border with ease and no testing/quarantine. If this is true I would say they should start testing to find out what's really happening inside the country. While I have a bias opinion due to the fact I'm currently locked out of the country from seeing my wife I can only hope there is some solid solution soon because the economic situation will only become worse the longer the country is locked down.

Presume you are right - they do not test people in Thailand on a bigger scale. The more people you test, the more positive results you will get and panic will increase.

 

 

 

 

[Flying Saucage]

17 minutes ago, Prince77 said:

The more people you test, the more positive results you will get and panic will increase.

I agree that they don't test. It's obvious.

 

But I believe that if they would start to test with thousands positive results, the panic would not increase, but even decrease! 

 

Only then the Thais would recognize and understand that a Covid infection equals not a deaths sentence, that they will not die like flies, and that it was their government with their "experts" who were lying to them and who created the panic. 

 

Can you imagine that some of these "experts" says something like this study of Monica Gandhi et al, from the University of California San Francisco?

 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-09-masks-boost-covid-immunity.html

 

It basically says that a Covid infection with a low virus load might even be something positive, as it increases the herd immunity. The study is not proofed yet, but quite logic nevertheless.

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Flying Saucage

[Nanaplaza666]

23 hours ago, ukrules said:

Look at a map, here's the list of total reported deaths per country in the region as of Sep 28, 2020

 

Inside the region :

 

Myanmar 226
Laos 0 ?
Thailand 59
Vietnam 35
Cambodia 0 ?

Malaysia 134
Singapore 27

 

Bordering the region - a little too far away from the 'special area' perhaps :

 

Bangladesh 5161
China 4739 ?
Philippines 5344
Indonesia 10386

 

Why is there a huge continuous region on the map where hardly any people die from COVID?

 

In india there are 90.000 infections a day 

[Nanaplaza666]

Some countries in europe the medical staff are saying the hospitals are getting crowded again and that means that cancer treatments are being delayed ,so i hope for the people thinking that this virus is some kind of bs and are (still)not taking it serious don't have any family members that need some kind of those treatments . I as some others also think that the virus is already in the country but not being detected enough because of lack of testing . But opening up the country only makes it worse and i understand it's bad as !@#$% for the economy but if opening up brings only a bigger wave and then needing to close up again and having a ???? load of infections and sick and dying people only makes the problem bigger . This is what i think doesn't mean i am right just giving my thoughts . 

[cbc]

His information about canada is wrong.There are two provinces ontario and quebec with cases of 500 plus with the latter being 700.The maritime provinces have very little covid with one province having three cases and the remainder having zero or single digit no higher then three.

Western provinces have low double digit with one province in the 125 to 135 range.Not thousands as he stated. Canada is doing very well managing the virus and the eastern provinces leading with the atlantic bubble.

[Damrongsak]

21 hours ago, rupert the bear said:

a few points here ,the economy is falling apart,peoples lives have been ruined.no support is given to unemployed people at all now whilst some members of society are zillionaires.they do nothing for their own.the tourist business is the bedrock of the economy whether u like it or not,people have a right to work not poverty as the govt gives them nothing although it has a lot.this must stop,the region has so few cases it can be opened up from japan to india thru viet hk taiwan philippines malaysia and singapore.people will need a neg test within 72 hrs and test again on entry.all clear u wait your test result in quarantine at a reasonable price,stop this insanity of racist rip offs for the empty hotels.i can stay at a 5 star hotel here for 900 B a night look at the net booking will show you. everyone knows you r game,its one of thailands no 1s.we see arguements about whether covids here,well the govt do not test the rates below 1% of the pop one of the lowest in the world,why?false positives are common,of the 700k test done we would get at least 20k false but none.why?the chinese in millions were here and the govt would not remove them no matter what anyone said.why?thats a reservoir of infection and when the govt sacked millions of workers they massed at rail and bus stations.at a time it was very prevalent.pneumonia deaths suddenly shot up then they went down.why?borders are porous and chinese and burmese run across all the time the camb and lao sides too so......thailand and its self importance and lies ...a never ending story ask boss.or the guy with all the expensive watches.this is a culture of dishonesty within govt ,its at every level so whys this any different?close your eyes and you see nothing,dont look at the poverty or suffering dont look at the mega rich dont look at a collapsing economy and businesses ,close those eyes its just not there.we will have to learn to live with it,its endemic now get on with it and spare us the supercillious lies,prepare to deal with cases,across the world econs have opened up in different ways from india to sweden.WHO is an edifice with no credibility,listen to what they didnt say to taiwan,they said no human/human transmission,flights from china no problem.nope theyre done cooked their own goose just jobs for the china boys.this whole covid deal is full of lies corruption and money,vaccines they may or may not work depending on where they come from,figs that have been manufactured to fit an agenda ask UK about that and here,its gone on everywhere,in USA so ins comps cash in.its never ending.the simple fact is its here endemic and we need to help the frail and weak and the rest of us get on with it.

Could you post that in Thai script without the punctuation  marks?  It would be easier to read.

[joecoolfrog]

23 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Here in Laos, there have been precisely zero deaths from Covid-19.  Why?  Because the country locked down early and people adhered to those lockdown rules and wearing masks etc.

 

Now the lockdown is finished and the wearing of masks etc is no longer a rule, but a recommendation.  Masks are only worn when shopping and removed when exiting the store.  Most people adhere to this advice.

 

If this simple action can ensure a Covid-free country, then it's a small price to pay.

 

The virus was around for several months before lockdown , during that time Laos had tens of thousands of tourists ( including me ) many of which were chinese.

Consequently there would have been a wave of infections and , given the lack of decent medical care , undoubtedly deaths.

It matters not if the authorities are aware of the true figures or not , zero is unbelievable.

Same story for Cambodia , one has to be seriously naive to take the official numbers at face value.

[sezze]

People who are before or against ... think about it this way ...

Countries are now testing a lot more then the start , hence , surely a lot more cases . 2nd , we do already know a lot more , and we can treat people , so yes less people die.  3th , yes , according to nr1 and 2 m yes it looks like the disease is certainly less then thought BUT it it still is serious . Then we get to the final and point which is the 1 which now is all about , hospitals . If hospitals are full , nobody can get care , no matter how many are positive or negative , hospital full meaning hospital full . We had several countries including China which had to build emergency hospitals or people staying in hallways , just because there wasn't any room anymore . It doesnt matter you believe in group immunity or not , or you believe in 5g , or vaccines or aliens ... hospital full is hospital full . This is not where you want to be , and that is all what matters , yes you can have many infected , no problem , each year many people got a cold , no problem . This is still a lot worse then a common cold , or even flu , at this moment as we see a rise in hospital beds getting filled again . I hope there is a point where we reach herd immunity , but at this moment it just isn't there . And you can say , but Sweden isnt rising in nrs , correct , but Sweden isnt the world . Swedish people naturally have a social distance , there even is a joke right now about it ( im glad we got rid of covid so we can go back from 1.5m to 5 m distance ) and are very thoughtful , and also got a few larger cities and lots of small communities far away from other contacts . It isn't the same all around the worold , far from it ... Imho , we all have to try our best not to get infected , even if you know i do not get sick . This virus needs to get out as fast as possible , or be controlled as fast as possible , and that isnt done by just keep continuing like before it .

I know i will take a vaccine as soon as possible , and no this isnt for me , i want this out of this world and if not possible , ok i did try my best . If we would do all the same , im sure we get it out , and we can go back to the world we all know and not the <deleted>hole it is right now .

[CLW]

18 hours ago, simtemple said:

You think? This guy thought like you, until he nearly died of Covid-19 

https://youtu.be/vpJtVzGdE1g

Yes I think. Especially in Thailand, where the risk is much higher to be killed in a traffic accident than by covid-19

[pandaburiram]

Notice this is the same person from the same university every time saying that we can't open up the country again. This is a blatant conflict of interest at this point and nobody's noticing.

 

 This is the University that's creating the vaccine and this person needs to be investigated as to whether he has alternative motives for locking down the country and causing such financial devastation to the people by not allowing things to open up based on false information. 

 It's basic REAL data now that he should be aware of that now shows that the rising cases are in direct proportion to rising testing in many countries including Europe.

 

If you look at the ratio of cases versus deaths all around the world , the death rate has almost fallen to zero as far as a percentage of the cases that he is citing as a reason to continue to destroy Thailand's economy. I'm not sure if I can put a link in this video but you can go to YouTube to watch a video that clearly graphs out all the current CDC and WHO data very clearly. The video title is "Viral Issue Crucial Update Sept 8th: the Science, Logic and Data Explained!" and the last six letters of the URL are Fzaac

https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac

 

 Somebody needs a forward to this to this man and let him see it. If he's in such a high and respected position he should already be aware of this information and if he isn't then that says a lot about who should be advising regarding these matters. If he is aware of this information and he is still crying out that people shouldn't come then he should be investigated clearly and simply. A genuine conflict of interest by definition.
 

[Sydebolle]

Why not ask the Dottore, what he would do to prevent Thailand going belly-up? 

This country is dying a very fast death, millions out of work and an impact which is not even imaginable yet - for years to come. 

Of course the number of infections will go up, here the medicine man is correct. But not every infected person will drop dead instantly; the death rates can be looked up for those who are interested in that. 

If you limp, then you have a  walking problem. If you get killed on a zebra crossing, then the cause of death is a crash with a vehicle and not limping! Some argue that if you would not have crossed the zebra crossing ............. go figure! 

[geriatrickid]

Once again ignorant people   have emerged from the cracks to promote their maniacal claims of conspiracy and plots. It would be amusing if it wasn't so pathetic.  now some may feel, I am  too hard and mean to such people,  but honestly, their lies and delusions are annoying.

 

12 hours ago, jerolamo said:

"Expert" has been paid how much by big pharma industry to make people afraid the time a vaccine goes out to force everybody or blackmail them to buy vaccine ?

You are the one making the claim, so  provide some evidence. You know nothing about the vaccine effort throughout the world. NOTHING. 

Much of the vaccine will be produced and distributed by a not for profit entity. Nine CEPI-supported candidate vaccines are part of the COVAX initiative, with a further nine candidates under evaluation.  COVAX has the largest and most diverse COVID-19 vaccine portfolio in the world. it was created by France, WHO and the European Commisison and is co-lead by GAVI, the worldwide vaccine alliance.  You are clueless as to how the world's vaccines are manufactured. 

 

6 hours ago, cbc said:

His information about canada is wrong.There are two provinces ontario and quebec with cases of 500 plus with the latter being 700.The maritime provinces have very little covid with one province having three cases and the remainder having zero or single digit no higher then three.

Western provinces have low double digit with one province in the 125 to 135 range.Not thousands as he stated. Canada is doing very well managing the virus and the eastern provinces leading with the atlantic bubble.

His information on Canada is correct. The situation is now out of control in parts of Ontario and Quebec. Daily infections are now back to the levels they were in March. Quebec just reported 3 days of explosive growth  621, 686, 797 ; Ontario  the same 416, 491, 700 and British Columbia has had a problem since early September 68, 125, 74.

These 3 provinces hold 28 million of Canada's 38 million population. Quebec  has just imposed  bars, restaurant and public facility closures for the next 28 days in  the hardest hit regions. (Schools and businesses remain open). Ontario  may be forced to do the same in some large cities.

Yes, some rural regions don' have a problem, Nova Scotia's population density is 17 people per km. Toronto has  4,334 people per sq. km. 

 

 

1 hour ago, pandaburiram said:

Notice this is the same person from the same university every time saying that we can't open up the country again. This is a blatant conflict of interest at this point and nobody's noticing.

 

 This is the University that's creating the vaccine and this person needs to be investigated as to whether he has alternative motives for locking down the country and causing such financial devastation to the people by not allowing things to open up based on false information. 

 It's basic REAL data now that he should be aware of that now shows that the rising cases are in direct proportion to rising testing in many countries including Europe.

 

You claim there is a conflict of interest. You falsely claim he says the country can't open.

Where's your evidence? 

Your claims are BS and defamatory. More specifically you are disrespectful and insolent to the point of being offensive. Who are you to disparage this man? He is a respected associate professor of medicine with a notable background in vaccines and epidemiology. 

He has a track record in R&D.  You  insult a man who has earned world wide recognition for his contribution to public health. Is it any wonder why the Thai government wishes to be rid of low life arrogant foreigners?

 

First you state that the university is "creating the vaccine".

Did the voices in your head tell you that?  The university is using shared public knowledge to develop a potential vaccine. This does not mean that its vaccine will be viable. Even if it is, the university will apply existing shared knowledge, just as other universities are trying to develop vaccines. 

 

Your next imagined wrongdoing claim is that " he has alternative motives for locking down the country and causing such financial devastation to the people by not allowing things to open up based on false information"

What a crock of <deleted>. Chula is a publicly funded university. Any vaccine that originates there is going to have Government of Thailand ownership.

 

Now tell us, what are your academic and work qualifications to attack this man?

[RocketDog]

15 hours ago, pookondee said:

The thing is, the jury is still out on whether other respiratory conditions actually cause long term effects either.

 

Whooping cough did, now it doesnt..they are always changing their tune.

 

So how would he know about Covid long term effects?

There's nowhere near enough cases studied, nor enough data for Faucci to even make these claims.

 

So, he should just shut up on what he doesnt know about, and quit with the doomsday scenarios. 

 

Hes just a media stooge that has to come up with something, and for some reason he always prefers the negative.

 

Actually he reminds me of certain females ive known.

 

Long proven that females have a major need to talk...actually they speak many 1,000's of words per day more than what men do.

 

Trouble is, when they run out of things to say, they usually end up repeating old stories or just basically talking Sหit..

 

The latter is pretty much what Faucci does all the time.

 

MRI studies are not guesses. You focus on lungs. I am addressing multiple organ failure.

 

I'm quite sure you started running your mouth here without doing the search I suggested. You just wanted a chance to dump on faucci. 

Exactly the deflection tactic your hero and party are so often criticized for. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 9/28/2020 at 3:40 AM, farang51 said:

Must be this article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53073046

So we do have a documented figure for excess deaths - and it's 2,400.

 

Even if all of those excess deaths were due to CoVid-19 (and there's no evidence that they were) then it would still be a really low amount compared to most other countries in the world and especially western countries.

[Crisu]

17 hours ago, vermin on arrival said:

Huge surge in cases but almost no deaths. I see single digits all week, a casedemic panic. Bubble wrap the elderly and try to live your lives with mitigation. Weak infections give immunity. What are the ICU and hospitalization numbers?

Thats correct!

 

Look at the below daily Covid deaths in Belgum while since July the new Cases are rising without any effect on the daily deaths.

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Crisu

[DrTuner]

22 minutes ago, Crisu said:

Thats correct!

 

Look at the below daily Covid deaths in Belgum while since July the new Cases are rising without any effect on the daily deaths.

 

Somebody asked for the US graphs. Does anybody have the latest, most importantly, divided between North and South states (climate type)? Respiratory diseases sem to have a seasonal pattern and northern US is starting to look like EU, southern is the "second wave".

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by DrTuner

[geriatrickid]

18 minutes ago, Crisu said:

Thats correct!

Look at the below daily Covid deaths in Belgum while since July the new Cases are rising without any effect on the daily deaths.

To put your comment in context the new cases are primarily younger people. We see in the  UK and Canada,  60% of all new infections are people aged under 40 years of age.

The deaths are lower because we now have some drugs that help ease symptoms and because fewer  older people are infected.

 

 

What is your point  about the lower death results? do you believe that the infected  just get better and the disease  heals itself in 2 weeks?  I suggest you visit the data to see the growing numbers of "long haul" patients as they are now called. Covid19 was never a death sentence. Unfortunately, it can  damage the lungs and  put people at an increased risk of stroke and heart attack.

[DrTuner]

1 minute ago, geriatrickid said:

I suggest you visit the data to see the growing numbers of "long haul" patients as they are now called. 

Mind linking that data?

[spacex]

12 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

To put your comment in context the new cases are primarily younger people. We see in the  UK and Canada,  60% of all new infections are people aged under 40 years of age.

The deaths are lower because we now have some drugs that help ease symptoms and because fewer  older people are infected.

 

 

What is your point  about the lower death results? do you believe that the infected  just get better and the disease  heals itself in 2 weeks?  I suggest you visit the data to see the growing numbers of "long haul" patients as they are now called. Covid19 was never a death sentence. Unfortunately, it can  damage the lungs and  put people at an increased risk of stroke and heart attack.

Similar to other respiratory infections it would seem.  Imagine that.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2647650/

[diks]

34 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

To put your comment in context the new cases are primarily younger people. We see in the  UK and Canada,  60% of all new infections are people aged under 40 years of age.

Why shouldn't they be 60% of the total. It matches closely with the demographics and those are the people who are out working, going to school etc., many of the older generation have been scared by the psychology of fear, so sit at home alone. Further they are the people who have been tested positive by the PCR test, that does not equal sick people.

Edited September 29, 2020 by diks
grammar

[vermin on arrival]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

So we do have a documented figure for excess deaths - and it's 2,400.

 

Even if all of those excess deaths were due to CoVid-19 (and there's no evidence that they were) then it would still be a really low amount compared to most other countries in the world and especially western countries.

That's only for March. Would have started in November so thousands more.

[geriatrickid]

 

 

9 hours ago, diks said:

Why shouldn't they be 60% of the total. It matches closely with the demographics and those are the people who are out working, going to school etc., many of the older generation have been scared by the psychology of fear, so sit at home alone. Further they are the people who have been tested positive by the PCR test, that does not equal sick people.

The median age in the  UK is approximately  40 years. This means that 50% of the population is over the age of 40 and 50% is below the age of 40.  Right there is a significant  difference. More specifically, the surge is is observed in the 18-56 year old group. So no, it does not "match"  demographics.  The simple explanation is that it reflected who was most likely to socialize in large groups facilitating super spreader events: College & university students, and young people who form the backbone of many bars & dance clubs.

 

Initially it was the over age 65 age group who were most at risk. This is why the  infections were initially skewed to the age group. The over age 40 demographic is not "sitting" at home as they are  a prime component of the workforce. On the contrary, they are compliant with  infection prevention measures.

 

The testing has nothing to do with this. And the surge in young people is not a surprise and is exactly as predicted.

[geriatrickid]

9 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Mind linking that data?

How about you substantiate your denials? You wish to deny the  overwhelming evidence, go for it. Show us all that there are no patients with ongoing  impact. You know because you are right there providing the  first line medical service right? No/ How about you are  managing a response? No.

 

Start here;

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists

 

What we know 

- COVID-19 can sometimes result in prolonged illness, even in young adults and children without underlying chronic medical conditions.

- There are many case reports from people who do not regain their previous health following COVID-19.

- Little is known about the clinical course of COVID-19 following milder illness.

-  In a telephone survey of symptomatic adults who had a positive outpatient test result for SARS-CoV-2, 35% had not returned to their usual state of health when interviewed 2–3 weeks after testing.1

- Among those 18 to 34 years in good health, 20% (1 in 5) reported that some symptoms were prolonged.

 

read this;

Symptom Duration and Risk Factors for Delayed Return to Usual Health Among Outpatients with COVID-19 in a Multistate Health Care Systems Network — United States, March–June 2020   https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6930e1.htm

 

As per WHO Data;

 COVID-19 may increase the risk of long-term health problems

 Body systems and organs that can be affected :

 • Heart - Damage to heart muscle, heart failure

 • Lungs - Damage to lung tissue and restrictive lung failure

• Brain and the nervous system Ø Loss of sense of smell (anosmia) Ø Consequences of thrombo-embolic events such as pulmonary embolism, heart attack, stroke  Ø Cognitive impairment (e.g. memory and concentration

 • Mental health - Anxiety, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder and sleep disturbance

 • Musculoskeletal and others -  Pain in join and muscles -Fatigue

 

What we already know from experience;

 Long-term health effects of other coronavirus infections

A study was performed on the long term effects of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), the coronavirus that emerged in 2003

• This study showed there was persistent and significant impairment of exercise capacity and health status in survivors of SARS over 24 months. Health workers who had SARS experienced even more marked adverse impact

 • Another study, revealed that 40% of people recovering from SARS still had chronic fatigue symptoms 3.5 years after being diagnosed

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7192220/ https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/415378

 

[DrTuner]

20 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

How about you substantiate your denials? You wish to deny the  overwhelming evidence, go for it. Show us all that there are no patients with ongoing  impact. You know because you are right there providing the  first line medical service right? No/ How about you are  managing a response? No.

 

Start here;

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists

 

What we know 

- COVID-19 can sometimes result in prolonged illness, even in young adults and children without underlying chronic medical conditions.

- There are many case reports from people who do not regain their previous health following COVID-19.

- Little is known about the clinical course of COVID-19 following milder illness.

-  In a telephone survey of symptomatic adults who had a positive outpatient test result for SARS-CoV-2, 35% had not returned to their usual state of health when interviewed 2–3 weeks after testing.1

- Among those 18 to 34 years in good health, 20% (1 in 5) reported that some symptoms were prolonged.

 

read this;

Symptom Duration and Risk Factors for Delayed Return to Usual Health Among Outpatients with COVID-19 in a Multistate Health Care Systems Network — United States, March–June 2020   https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6930e1.htm

 

As per WHO Data;

 COVID-19 may increase the risk of long-term health problems

 Body systems and organs that can be affected :

 • Heart - Damage to heart muscle, heart failure

 • Lungs - Damage to lung tissue and restrictive lung failure

• Brain and the nervous system Ø Loss of sense of smell (anosmia) Ø Consequences of thrombo-embolic events such as pulmonary embolism, heart attack, stroke  Ø Cognitive impairment (e.g. memory and concentration

 • Mental health - Anxiety, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder and sleep disturbance

 • Musculoskeletal and others -  Pain in join and muscles -Fatigue

 

What we already know from experience;

 Long-term health effects of other coronavirus infections

A study was performed on the long term effects of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), the coronavirus that emerged in 2003

• This study showed there was persistent and significant impairment of exercise capacity and health status in survivors of SARS over 24 months. Health workers who had SARS experienced even more marked adverse impact

 • Another study, revealed that 40% of people recovering from SARS still had chronic fatigue symptoms 3.5 years after being diagnosed

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7192220/ https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/415378

 

Thanks, I'll look at them.

 

Science seems to be about people who were hospitalized. So that's already <5% filter, IIRC. And they state: "But with the crisis just months old, no one knows how far into the future symptoms will endure, and whether COVID-19 will prompt the onset of chronic diseases."

 

CDC is a telephone poll - not trusting those, except perhaps "Relatively little is known about the clinical course of COVID-19 and return to baseline health for persons with milder, outpatient illness."

 

WHO - aggregates data, need their sources

 

And SARS isn't COVID.

 

The thing is, it hasn't been long term yet. It's been about 10 months or so, it's impossible to have had long term issues. We simply don't know yet and fearmongering ain't going to give us data any sooner. It's the same thing that was in play in Q1/2020: no data yet.

Edited September 29, 2020 by DrTuner

[geriatrickid]

12 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Thanks, I'll look at them.

 

Science seems to be about people who were hospitalized. So that's already <5% filter, IIRC. And they state: "But with the crisis just months old, no one knows how far into the future symptoms will endure, and whether COVID-19 will prompt the onset of chronic diseases."

 

CDC is a telephone poll - not trusting those, except perhaps "Relatively little is known about the clinical course of COVID-19 and return to baseline health for persons with milder, outpatient illness."

 

WHO - aggregates data, need their sources

 

And SARS isn't COVID.

 

The thing is, it hasn't been long term yet. It's been about 10 months or so, it's impossible to have had long term issues. We simply don't know yet and fearmongering ain't going to give us data any sooner. It's the same thing that was in play in Q1/2020: no data yet.

WHO - aggregates data, need their sources

As I read that aloud at the start of my Zoom call, I was greeted with hysterical laughter. Good one. There was giggling for 5 minutes.

 

On the off chance that you were serious,  yes, WHO aggregates data. it's one of their  functions. So does the CDC & NIH in the USA,  CIHR in Canada, NHMRC in Australia, NIHR in the UK and the European Commission's PHE, etc.  

Sources: They are called governments and they file their information in accordance with the reporting standards set out in the agreed upon operating procedures. 

 

SARS isn't Covid.

Ok. No one said it was, but Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) is a viral respiratory illness caused by a coronavirus, called SARS-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV).

Covid19  is a viral respiratory illness caused by a coronavirus, called SARS coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),

 

Do you see the similiarity? one is SARS CoV and the other is SARS CoV-2

It is accepted that SARS-CoV-2 is a sister virus to SARS-CoV, the primary viral isolate defining the species.  we have  very rigorous rules when  naming a virus and  similar names are not used unless - wait for it - there are close similarities in the virus.

 

You reject the SARS data in respect to extended complications. That's your personal choice but  changes nothing because the SARS data is considered applicable by common  infectious disease practice. If the principle wasn't there we wouldn't have common protocols for the treatment of infectious respiratory disease.

 

You say it is impossible to have long term issues. Your saying it is impossible does not make it so. We have patients who recovered from the immediate infections who are still reporting brain fog, shortness of breath, blood chemistry issues. The disease should resolve in 2 weeks for mild cases and 4-6 weeks in severe cases.  If  patients  report symptoms and issues are observed weeks later, they have long term impact.

 

According to you, we have invented the long term impact potential and all the medical data is false.

 

1. This Italian study found that in patients who had recovered from COVID-19, 87.4% reported persistence of at least 1 symptom, particularly fatigue and dyspnea.

Carfi A, et al. Persistent symptoms in patients after acute COVID-19. JAMA. 2020; doi:10.1001/jama.2020.12603.

 

2. This German study of 100 "recovered" patients showed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%), independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and time from the original diagnosis. 

Puntman VO, et al. Outcomes of cardiovascular magnetic resonance imaging in patients recently recovered from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). JAMA Cardiology. 2020; doi:10.1001/jamacardio.2020.3557.

 

And I guess this teaching  diagram shouldn't be used then, right?

 

 

 (Courtesy of Elsevier Connect - permission)

 

 

And yes, hospitalized patients  seem more likely to report longer term issues. This may be a result of their  being under closer surveillance/

observation. Also, wealthier patients tend to be better educated and are more likely to recognize and respond to symptoms. (Nothing unique in that as we see similar in cardiac care patients where the outcome is much better for better educated and higher income patients.)

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by geriatrickid