Dengue antibodies may be making Thais immune to Covid-19

[Bender Rodriguez]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

many Thais take the BCG vaccine for tuberculosis to avoid dengue infections.

how does that work ?

 

dengue attacks your red blood cells, don't it ?

 

The normal platelet count in the body ranges from 1.5 to 4 lacs, this can go down to as low as 20,000 to 40,000 in the case of dengue patients. This happens because: Dengue can damage your bone marrow, the platelet-producing centre of the body. The dengue virus can affect your blood cells and damage your platelets.

[Bender Rodriguez]

18 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The study in question has not been peer reviewed.

 

Prior exposure to dengue clearly is not reducing the rate of COVID infections in India.

 

Basically what the study did was look for "correlations" between higher and lower rates of COVID in different parts of Brazil and other factors and one of the things they found was an inverse relationship to the prevalence of antibodies related to Dengue. Correlation is not causation.

so maybe this whole TOPIC should be deleted as it is false information ?

[Purdey]

Any article that repetitively uses the word "may" has no basis in fact and should be read cautiously. 

[spidermike007]

Very interesting. I have long thought that the Thai people have some sort of immunity to Covid. There were about 1.5 million tourists in Thailand during November, December, January and February. Many were likely infected. Yet, very few Thais were infected. Why? Not coincidence? Not a lack of exposure. 

[Foghorn]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Which countries have the highest incidence of Dengue Fever ???? - 

 

Answer, Brazil, Venezuela and Columbia 

 

http://www.denguevirusnet.com/epidemiology.html

 

Thailand, Philippines and Indonesia is also up there on the ‘high list’

 

 

Venezuela has relatively low Covid-19 number, but the country is on its knees in the mids of a socialist meltdown - I wouldn’t believe any figures which originate from there. 

 

 

I suspect Thailand isn’t getting increased cases now because because it already had cases at the end of 2019 and beginning of 2020 - a combination of herd immunity and no domestic testing of the general population may be the answer.

 

Rather than testing of illogical miracle answers such as 'Dengue Immunity' why not investigate the possibility that Covid-19 already swept the nation and people are carrying some form of immunity. 

 

Public records (Thailand ministry of public health) no longer carry information on the increases in Viral Pneumonia back in Jan, Feb and March... very strange. 

 

About this time last year all my family had a bad case of a flue like virus , it lasted about a week each and we got it twice before the last one was feeling good, my friend and his family had the same , looking back I thought it might of been the Chinese virus , who knows . Just guessing

[Srikcir]

The doctor needs to expand his reading.

It has been said that influenza vaccine will prevent or mitigate covid 19 infection. Not clinically proven but at least the flu is spread like covid 19 in the air.

Whereas the dengue vector by mosquito bite into the blood stream is not a pulmonary disease per se but in effect a blood disease. Like ebola.

On the other hand vitamins B-12, C and D are being examined to strengthen the immune system against some degree of covid 19 infection.

[khunPer]

There are actually a few scientific studies about Calmette-vaccine, or BCG, and Covid-19, and the vaccine is in "in phase III trials in health care workers in Australia and Netherlands" as protection against Covid-19 (source: Wikipedia).

 

However, WHO does not recommend its use for prevention against Covid-19; the problem with WHO, is according to a number of health-experts, that WHO is a political organization, and in too close relationship with medical giants.

 

Those of us that are old enough to have had the Calmette-vaccine as child – it was recommended from 1946 to about 1980 in my home country (Denmark), and in a period 60 percent to 90 percent children got it, including me – might however no longer be protected, as it's said that the "protection lasts up to twenty years". I was hit by Dengue-fever a few years ago – not very pleasant, I cannot recommend it???? – must have been one of the two mild of the four stains of Dengue, I survived; but perhaps that, together with a healthy immune system, might give me a level of Covid-19 protection. I didn't get any treatment for Dengue, but a later visit to hospital, and test there, showed I had, had it.

[Ireland32]

45 minutes ago, Foghorn said:

About this time last year all my family had a bad case of a flue like virus , it lasted about a week each and we got it twice before the last one was feeling good, my friend and his family had the same , looking back I thought it might of been the Chinese virus , who knows . Just guessing

I got fever for a week and dry hacking cough for a month starting Nov19 last year 

[Rancid]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

The doctor needs to expand his reading.

It has been said that influenza vaccine will prevent or mitigate covid 19 infection. Not clinically proven but at least the flu is spread like covid 19 in the air.

Whereas the dengue vector by mosquito bite into the blood stream is not a pulmonary disease per se but in effect a blood disease. Like ebola.

On the other hand vitamins B-12, C and D are being examined to strengthen the immune system against some degree of covid 19 infection.

I actually read the opposite, obviously the correct flu vaccine will help with the corresponding flu strain, however seems it may adversely affect the immune system and as such lowers the chances of the body mounting a defense against covid.

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Rancid said:

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

The doctor needs to expand his reading.

It has been said that influenza vaccine will prevent or mitigate covid 19 infection. Not clinically proven but at least the flu is spread like covid 19 in the air.

Whereas the dengue vector by mosquito bite into the blood stream is not a pulmonary disease per se but in effect a blood disease. Like ebola.

On the other hand vitamins B-12, C and D are being examined to strengthen the immune system against some degree of covid 19 infection.

I actually read the opposite, obviously the correct flu vaccine will help with the corresponding flu strain, however seems it may adversely affect the immune system and as such lowers the chances of the body mounting a defense against covid.

 

There has been a growing argument that ‘excessive immune response can actually cause so much inflammation it can be fatal’... researchers are suggesting that a ‘cytokine storm’ causes the body to crash. i.e. it is the body’s immune system itself which over-reacts to Covid-19 with severe consequences. 

 

Simply not enough is known about our immune response to SARS-CoV-2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by richard_smith237

[lemonjelly]

Indonesia isn’t doing so well with Covid-19. I think it’s more to do with the Thai being more proactive with mask wearing and hand sanitizer at store entrances. Thai tend to keep their hands away from their faces and wai rather than shake hands; this might also be a factor.

[alfen]

1 hour ago, Ireland32 said:

I got fever for a week and dry hacking cough for a month starting Nov19 last year 

The same with me, sick for a week and a dry hacking cough for a month last November, I flew to Darwin and shared it with four mates, all survived even though all in their seventies

 

[DrTuner]

52 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

There has been a growing argument that ‘excessive immune response can actually cause so much inflammation it can be fatal’... researchers are suggesting that a ‘cytokine storm’ causes the body to crash. i.e. it is the body’s immune system itself which over-reacts to Covid-19 with severe consequences. 

That was also mentioned as a factor in the Spanish Flu mortality.

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181029-why-the-flu-of-1918-was-so-deadly

Quote

Besides replicating very quickly, the 1918 strain seems to trigger a particularly intense response from the immune system, including a ‘cytokine storm’ – the rapid release of immune cells and inflammatory molecules. Although a robust immune response should help us fight infection, an over-reaction of this kind can overload the body, leading to severe inflammation and a build-up of fluid in the lungs that could increase the chance of secondary infections. The cytokine storm might help to explain why young, healthy adults – who normally find it easier to shake off flu – were the worst affected, since in this case their stronger immune systems created an even more severe cytokine storm.

 

One silver lining about this pandemic is that the medical sector and research is getting a huge boost and mysteries may be finally solved.

Edited September 29, 2020 by DrTuner

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, TooBigToFit said:

Thais use paracetamol and in fact that's seems to be the better drug to use in environments with dengue. Aspirin supposedly spreads the dengue throughout the body accelerating the infection.

Garbage. Aspirin is a recognised medication for hypertension and the Thais have hypertension just like everywhere else. Try and buy aspirin in any Thai pharmacy and the first thing they ask is it for hypertension. It is manufactured in Thailand at 81mg for the condition, in the UK they prescribe 75mg soluble.

Aspirin alters the platlets effectively thinning the blood and as Dengue also affects the platlets it would be inadvisable for anyone with Dengue to take or continue taking aspirin, or any other blood thinning or anticoagulant medication.

I had been taking aspirin for 25 years when I had Dengue, just stopped as soon as I suspected what it was.

[onebir]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Garbage. Aspirin is a recognised medication for hypertension and the Thais have hypertension just like everywhere else. Try and buy aspirin in any Thai pharmacy and the first thing they ask is it for hypertension. It is manufactured in Thailand at 81mg for the condition, in the UK they prescribe 75mg soluble.

But in the UK (+ most non-Asian countries) you can also get 300mg doses for pain, fever etc; I think the person you're responding to may be thinking of that use. (I've tried and failed to get 300mg aspirin in China, only 75-80mg available, because 'Chinese people's stomachs can't stand it' iirc)

[Cake Monster]

TOSH

[CGW]

2 hours ago, Rancid said:

I actually read the opposite, obviously the correct flu vaccine will help with the corresponding flu strain, however seems it may adversely affect the immune system and as such lowers the chances of the body mounting a defense against covid.

Correct, it actually stated that "it" lowered resistance to covid on the enclosed documentation you get with vaccine.

[CGW]

6 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

TOSH

Getting low on carbs? 

[Paradise Pete]

On 9/28/2020 at 3:50 AM, Dumbastheycome said:

Why  "fake" ?

It is a speculation which may  have been  better to not release until some better evidence one way or the other is produced. 

It would be a safe bet that all sorts of experimental applications of existing  substances are being investigated around the  world.

 

One speculating doctor said "may", and yet the very first post in this thread took it as fact and then went even further to call it a game-changer.

[ukrules]

On 9/28/2020 at 3:49 PM, Sheryl said:

Prior exposure to dengue clearly is not reducing the rate of COVID infections in India.

Can you ever really be sure of that?

Edited September 29, 2020 by ukrules

[ronaldo0]

On 9/28/2020 at 8:44 AM, webfact said:

 

This, he said, may explain why there are far fewer Covid-19 cases here than in other countries.

Or maybe they are hardly testing anyone ! ????????

[Dumbastheycome]

3 hours ago, Paradise Pete said:

 

One speculating doctor said "may", and yet the very first post in this thread took it as fact and then went even further to call it a game-changer.

What motivates people to announce speculative information  may be attributed to  any number of  factors  including the dubious but which also almost immediately has appeal to those who due to at least as many factors latch on to speculation as  factual or at least containing  validity purely because it also comes from an  individual who has  apparent "qualification".

I would provide a degree of  defense to the initial post in that it suggests "could be" a  game changer.

Not recently  but  historically I have been victim  to two strains of dengue and it would be nice to think that would provide me with some greater resistance to  Covid-19 but I certainly would not  consider relying on it .

No more so than that I should encourage  being infected by the  latest  mutation of the  "common cold" virus which is  nasty but self limiting despite also  being one of four variants of a corona virus.

Speculative claims about that and others have  also been debunked  but for some  persist. The  combination of educated ignorance and resulting incapacity of so many in modern society to abandon constructive  thinking not only  allows but  often encourages devotees of conspiracy theories or adulation of people in self elevated acclaimed positions.

[NB1986]

On 9/28/2020 at 5:14 PM, geriatrickid said:

It was an unexpected finding and the takeaway isn't about dengue per se.  The authors emphasized the potential  “immunological cross-reactivity” between DENV serotypes (dengue antibodies) and SARS-CoV-2.   The benefit may have been from a prior dengue infection or a dengue vaccine. The takeaway is that other vaccines might be useful until such time as a  SARS Cov-2 specific vaccine was available. It was also suggested that the yellow fever  and zika virus vaccines might offer a similar benefit.

 

My interpretation: Vaccines can and do help. They can sometimes offer unexpected benefits.

More study is required.

 

Ofcourse just put the all Vaccines into the body one of 10 might be useful but 9 from 10 will ruin your immune system or even worse. Thats why for example people who are taking Flu Vaccine and they didnt had bigger problems before if next year they dont take the vaccine if they get sick from ordinary influenza it tend to be much harsher symptoms and longer ecovery, so is vaccine working yes in 50% of cases until you repeating shots every year, however if you stop taking it it makes you much worse, that the Vaccine for dengue helps against Covid-19? Is a BS 

Edited September 29, 2020 by NB1986

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, NB1986 said:

Ofcourse just put the all Vaccines into the body one of 10 might be useful but 9 from 10 will ruin your immune system or even worse. Thats why for example people who are taking Flu Vaccine and they didnt had bigger problems before if next year they dont take the vaccine if they get sick from ordinary influenza it tend to be much harsher symptoms and longer ecovery, so is vaccine working yes in 50% of cases until you repeating shots every year, however if you stop taking it it makes you much worse, that the Vaccine for dengue helps against Covid-19? Is a BS 

The Flu Vaccine causes people to develop antibodies (to flu) which provide protection against the virus.

 

How does ’stopping taking a vaccine’ make anyone more susceptible to more sever symptoms than someone who never takes the flu vaccine the following flu season if they don’t take a vaccine??? 

 

It's not as if the bodies own immune system is like a muscle and needs training to stay fit. 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by richard_smith237

[DrTuner]

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

It's not as if the bodies own immune system is like a muscle and needs training to stay fit. 

I'm not sure about that. Just about every system in our body withers if it's not used - including brain.

[CHAZ1]

Highly unlikely and BCG offers no protection against Dengue

[Sheryl]

21 hours ago, Paradise Pete said:

 

One speculating doctor said "may", and yet the very first post in this thread took it as fact and then went even further to call it a game-changer.

 

This is an ongoing problem. Every single utterance about COVID, no matter who by or how tentative, immediately gets an inordinate amount of press and public attention.

[DrTuner]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

This is an ongoing problem. Every single utterance about COVID, no matter who by or how tentative, immediately gets an inordinate amount of press and public attention.

It's been a problem since media started using ads as a revenue source instead of subscriptions. Gotta get them clicks. And yes I'm looking at you TVF.

[Kwasaki]

On 9/28/2020 at 9:49 PM, Wiggy said:

But he said it’s only for Thais. 

I had 8 pints of blood so I'm sorter Thai. ????

[internationalism]

the first thai victim of covid (beginning of february 2020) had recent dengue infection. They even initially attributed his death as post dengue.

In theory all thai had dengue infection before age of 45 (statistically you get it every 9 years and there are 4 strains). Yet it's the seniors who die from covid.

what previous dengue infection (or dengvaxia) are doing is preventing co-infection. Good enough.

Recent infections and vaccinations do temporarily boost immune system. It's only temporarily, for several month. Still good enough.

 

What doctor at the mahidol travel clinic told me recently, that I don't need dengvaxia booster after 4 years, as recommended, because infected mosquito bites will work as boosters. That is good to know. But how to know, when nobody in the neighbourhood was diagnosed with it?

 

getting dengvaxia now (it's only for those for living in tropics for minimum 9 years, or after previous infection), at the beginning of rainy season, as well as getting flu jab, or any other vax preventing lung infection, might prevent for sometimes getting heavy covid.