Anyone else considering Georgia (Eastern Europe)?

[pubba]

Georgia has been on my radar for a while and I was hoping to visit this year for a few months. I've been in Thailand for a few years and was in China for 6 years before that, so I thought Georgia would be a nice change of scenery.

I have a few friends there and after some research have found the following positives:

• Low crime rate
• Easy visa process (before covid - more info below)
• Low cost of living (the average salary in the capital city Tbilisi is $200 USD)
• Fantastic cheese, wine and bread
• Friendly locals

Negatives:

• Not many people speak English
• Conservative culture/dating scene
• Difficult to get there (even more so during the pandemic)

 

Anyhow.. With all the confusion over visa amnesty and he says/she says going on.. I've been looking at alternative places to sit and wait out the covid pandemic to dry up or get cured or whatever they have in store for us.

 

I found that Georgia has a new 'Working remotely from Georgia' program that's open to entrepreneurs, freelancers, digital nomads etc.

The requirements are:

• Proof of income for the last few months
• Minimum 6 month health insurance
• 2 week quarantine at approved hotel (ranging from $30-100 per night)

 

I've applied through the link shared in the blog post here https://www.traveloffpath.com/georgia-launches-digital-nomad-visa-for-remote-workers/ and should get a reply in the next 10 days.

 

Now the problem is getting there... I had a quick look and it seems to be possible after an epic 40+ hour trip with 3 or 4 stops.

 

Anyone been to Tbilisis in Georgia or considering the move?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

An unusual choice but would be good to hear how it goes. If I was moving out of Asia I'd go to Kenya, maybe Mombasa or Nairobi, having said that I haven't checked the latest regarding Covid or other dangers

[onebir]

I don't know about now, but pre-Covid I think Georgia offered 365 days per entry, visa free.

[mfd101]

Magnificent scenery, beautiful churches. And always the possibility of a Russian invasion.

 

You might note that Armenia & Azerbaijan next door are having one of their neverending stoushes, with Turkey & Russia barracking on the sidelines.

[Kerryd]

I'd consider Georgia - if places like Syria and Afghanistan and Yemen aren't available.

Well, maybe it's not that bad - now. But it is on the brink of becoming that way - again.

After their civil war (1991), decades of strife and a short (5 day) war with Russia (2008) that Georgia lost, things have settled down a bit. However, there remains a lot of resentment towards Russia and it seems Russia still had designs on some Georgian territory.

Keep in mind that you have a certain religion dominate around the Southern and Western borders, the ever peaceful Chechnya in the North-West and the Russians to the North.
The same Russians that annexed Crimea not long ago, are trying to do the same thing to parts of Eastern Ukraine and apparently are still stirring up trouble in the 2 break-away "republics" of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Those 2 Georgian provinces, deciding to declare themselves "republics" (with Russian support), is basically what caused that short 5 day war in 2008.

A July 2019 article: Tensions between Russia and Georgia are on the rise again: Here’s why it matters

An August 2020 article: 12 Years After Russian Invasion, Georgia Sees No End in Sight

Something else to consider. Afghanistan used to be a nice place. Kabul was a beautiful city, men and women went to school together, women wore European fashions. It was a favoured stop-over for backpackers on the way to Nepal.
A coup replaced Afghanistan's King with a self-declared President, who was himself overthrown in another coup led by a communist party ("Peoples Democratic Party"). The leader of that party was assassinated by one of his own party members, who then took over the repressive gov't and made it worse. The Russians ("Soviets" at that time) weren't happy about what was going on so they invaded (Dec 1979).
Which of course led to the wars and strife that have plagued Afghanistan ever since. The Russians left in 1992. The civil war between rival Afghan factions lasted basically right up until the American invasion in 2001, though by that time the Taliban had defacto control over most of the country.

They are still fighting there but most of what goes on doesn't make the news unless it's quite dramatic.
Just like the insurgency in the South of Thailand. Events that make the news in Thailand are rarely heard about outside of the country, unless it is something dramatic. Same can be said for what was happening in Western Burma before the army finally moved in and suddenly the Rohingya all became refugees. Same can be said for what was/is happening in Western China between the Uighurs and Han Chinese.
(There are always 2 sides to a story but quite often we only hear one.)

I'm guessing there's a lot more happening in Georgia right now than we are hearing about in the news.

Georgia appears to be in nearly as precarious a position now as Afghanistan was after the King was deposed. They are surrounded by people who are more enemy than friend and who would love to cause each other problems if they could.

It wouldn't take much to turn Georgia into another Chechnya or Afghanistan. 

And the kicker is, to a large percentage of the Georgian population, and their neighbours to the South/West, guess what the average Caucasian expat looks like ?

Just like your average Russian.

 

[malt25]

NO !

[Jeffr2]

Georgia is a fantastic country.  The wine is great, no preservatives and made in jugs underground.  

 

Tbilisi is a very nice city and they've got a new airport that is great.  Lots of places to explore and getting around is very easy.

 

It gets cold in winter, but not much snow.  Summers can be a bit hot, but fantastic mountains are not far away.

 

Prices are relatively cheap, food is quite good, and many do speak English.  Though it'd be good to learn Russian.  Luckily, it's a relatively easy language to pickup enough to get by.  Da.

 

Russia has been messing around with them for decades.  Sad.  They are primarily a poor country, with a relatively high rate of unemployment.  Though the crime rate is relatively low.

 

Don't worry about the BS going on in Armenia.  That's been going on for decades and is only in the break away area.  Armenia is a great country to explore also.  Fantastic people there.

 

We absolutely loved it there and would love to return again.  It does take a few hops to get there, especially now with many flight segments canceled.  But if you plan right, should be about 26 hours.

 

Best of luck!!

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, malt25 said:

NO !

Too bad.  You're missing out on a great experience.

[Khun Yaaai]

13 hours ago, mfd101 said:

And always the possibility of a Russian invasion.

Lol, only if the Georgians start shelling their neighbors once again, which was what triggered the 5 day war. They got a bloody nose though, so wouldn't expect that to happen again in this generation at least.

Other than that I do think that Georgia is a viable option and my own experience of the country and the people is very positive.

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, Khun Yaaai said:

Lol, only if the Georgians start shelling their neighbors once again, which was what triggered the 5 day war. They got a bloody nose though, so wouldn't expect that to happen again in this generation at least.

Other than that I do think that Georgia is a viable option and my own experience of the country and the people is very positive.

You've got it backwards.  It was instigated by Pro-Russian separatists, who were backed by Russia.  Georgia declared independence, like many other former USSR satellite states did.  And was invaded by Pro-Russian fighters, just like in other areas (Moldova, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, etc).  

Georgia lost 2 areas of their country, now ruled by Pro-Russian separatists, and supported by Moscow.  Similar to Moldova and Ukraine.

 

https://www.numbers-stations.com/articles/soviet-and-russian-invasions-since-1917/

 

 In the summer of 2008 Russia held large military drills across the Georgian border alarming Georgia. In continuation, South Osetian troops opened fire on Georgian positions provoking Tbilisi to a preemptive strike as it was also aware of the gathering of the Russian tank column near the tunnel that lead into South Osetia. In result Russia claimed that Georgian forces have attacked Russian peacekeepers in Tskhinvali, the South Osetian capital and mounted invasion to draw back the assaulting Georgian forces. In the following days Russian troops entered Abkhazia and captured Georgian city Gori while closely approaching Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia. 

[ChrisKC]

I wouldn't choose to live anywhere because of some pretty pictures

[Bangkok Basha]

I've been to Georgia- 2 years ago. It's an amazing place with great food, great wine, and beautiful scenery. That said, the Caucasus region is a power keg. Armenia and Azerbaijan are on the verge of an all-out war, and the Georgian border with Russia and the breakaway Russian majority provinces is tense at best, and volatile. Revanchists in Russia (remember that Stalin was Georgian) want to recreate as much of the Soviet Union as they can, and Ukraine and George are in their sites- not so much the Islamic former Socialist Republics of the USSR. Still, I would go there for 2-3 months first to check it out first. 

[Damual Travesty]

I have a small two cents to put in, I have met some people from Georgia, and found them to be really nice people. That's about it. If you do go there please continue to post how it works out.

[Kerryd]

44 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Too bad.  You're missing out on a great experience.

Big difference between "going for a holiday while things are nice" and "moving there semi-permanently while tensions in the region are rising".

That is a mistake a lot of people make when they move somewhere, even to Thailand. People go on a holiday, stay in nice hotels/resorts, eat in nice restaurants, visit nice places and somehow come to the conclusion that if they move to that place, life will be just like that all the time.

Then they move there and suddenly find that they have to start dealing with locals in a different way. Renting a place to stay because they aren't allowed to buy. Arranging for electricity, water, garbage. Having to shop for food because gee, apparently it's really expensive to eat at restaurants everyday. Then they realize that going to the bars/clubs every night is expensive and not as much fun as it used to be. Then you have to deal with Immigration. With local merchants and repairmen. Dealing with "less than quality" healthcare. Having to deal with transportation (buying a vehicle, insurance, licensing, local driving conditions). Visiting "picturesque places" only to find they are nowhere near as nice as you hoped. Finding out that getting internet is difficult, expensive and maybe even restricted (or monitored). Finding out that the electricity can go out sporadically for extended periods.

You know, all the things that you normally don't have to deal with when you are on your 10-12 day all inclusive holiday.

People always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, until they get there and find out the grass has been painted or is missing altogether.

I tell people that if they are considering moving to a place, they need to go there and try living there like a local first for a couple of months. Rent an apartment. Set up your utilities (TV, internet, electricity, etc). Start shopping for food and essentials, doing laundry, getting a haircut. Try getting around to different places on your own (either driving or taking local transport). 
Try dealing with Immigration (i.e. extending a tourist visa). What are the local police like (helpful or hinderance).
After 2-3 months, you should have a basic idea of what lays ahead. After 4-5 months you should know if that's really where you want to be or if you should maybe consider a different destination.

Because you are never going to know what it's really like to live in a place, until you've actually lived in it.
It's usually all sunshine and good times when you are there for a holiday. It's often rain and sleet and misery when you try living there full time.

Anyone moving to a different country on a semi-permanent (or permanent) basis should be aware of more than just the "fluff" or they are setting themselves up for big problems and big disappointments once they get there and see that things are not as "green" as they'd hoped.

[Jeffr2]

Yup.  Never move somewhere permanently unless you've spent several months in that location.  Dealing with setting up phone lines, buying a car, dealing with the local situation....

 

As said above, a big difference between a one week holiday and a multi year stent living there.  But in a month or so, you'll have a pretty good idea.

[Khun Yaaai]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

You've got it backwards.  It was instigated by Pro-Russian separatists, who were backed by Russia.

Not really, since I was there, but I guess your goto source of information is NYT and Washington Post so don't really blame you.

[Jeffr2]

11 minutes ago, Khun Yaaai said:

Not really, since I was there, but I guess your goto source of information is NYT and Washington Post so don't really blame you.

Nope, not the NYT and the WP.  Though both are great sources of info.  The info is on many websites.  Sad you don't want to know the truth.  I was there after the attack.  So understand it quite well.  I got my info first hand from Georgians.

 

Are you Russian?

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, Damual Travesty said:

I have a small two cents to put in, I have met some people from Georgia, and found them to be really nice people. That's about it. If you do go there please continue to post how it works out.

Spent few months in Moldova where a mixture of Romanian and Russian lives there, english sparsely spoken and the government system still stuck back in the communist times, hard drinking is the a national sport there and i have found the people the to be a bit "too hard" for me who rarely smile, can't really compare to Thailand and it's people...

[Jeffr2]

55 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Spent few months in Moldova where a mixture of Romanian and Russian lives there, english sparsely spoken and the government system still stuck back in the communist times, hard drinking is the a national sport there and i have found the people the to be a bit "too hard" for me who rarely smile, can't really compare to Thailand and it's people...

Did you ever go to the drive in wine cave?  Pretty amazing.  

 

Did you ever make it to Transnistria?  Another chunk of land invaded illegally by the Russians.  Very strange place to visit.  

[rupert the bear]

ive spent some time there in several parts of the country,people are friendly its not expensive,food is different from here but it has many possibilities,english is spoken,the countryside is stunning the caucasas mts above them,old part of tbilisi is very attractive.its worth checking out,they wish to join EU the russian threats not there and its stable,i know several people whove been there long term.its a small place,if u like hiking its great.you can get there easily from here thru the gulf, emirates gulf air and qatar but theyre expensive.presently theyve done a good job with covid  but you cant get in,its somewhat difficult due to measures.that will change.give it a shot.i wished to return a few mnths back but half wit control wont allow me back in and id a been well and truly stranded

[tonray]

They have good pomegranites...

[theoldgit]

Off topic posts removed, this thread is about to migration to another country, not issues with other countries.

[LolaS]

No, not in the milions years.

 

there will be war in Yermenia and Azerbejan, probably proxy war of russia, 

and Georgia will always be victim of it. 

 

Plus highly racist, highly cold, and underdeveloped. 

 

thailand has state of the art medical equipment, they have here even cyber knife, do they have it in georgia? i dont think so

[redpill17]

I've been to Tbilisi last year, stayed in Saburtalo area. Notwithstanding positives OP mentioned, here are some negative things I've noted that you won't find in guidebooks/travel blogs:

• Air pollution is worse than Chiang Mai, I could only breathe in Vake area
• Driving is crazy, comparable to Bangkok or even worse
• Public transport is old and overcrowded, and traffic is pretty bad
• Local take-away/delivery food is not cheap compared to SE Asia ($20..$30+)
• Poor customer service, business culture hasn't developed there yet

Overall, Tbilisi is an interesting place to visit if you like Eastern European vibe, but I wouldn't expect the same quality of life you can get in Thailand, Malaysia, Central Europe or even the Balkans.

[KKr]

lovely country, beautiful Architecture,
and delicious food, great wines,
lovely charming women as well,
that can be touched after getting married ????

Great people,
I worked for many years with a certain Georgian contractor.
hand-shake agreements only.
Nevertheless,  he stood by his word and his price,
even when a job he took went into loss, he finished it within spec.
Respect.

 

[a10ams]

I worked on a land rig there for a couple of weeks a few years ago. In fact I arrived the day after the big flood that washed all the wild animals out of the zoo into the town centre of Tbilisi. Apart from lions and tigers walking along the main streets it was fine. Old Tbilisi is very nice with several great pubs where you can drink the local wine very cheaply. Never gave it any thought about retiring there but I guess it could pan out fine. The Azerbaijan/Armenia turf war is an issue but it never really looks like escalating into a full blown barney. I travelled form Baku for no other reason than I was there already, but I'm sure there's connecting flights from Istanbul. Didn't see a lot of available young ladies around though, if that's a decision clincher.

 

[pacovl46]

If it strikes your fancy then go for it! You live only once! Maybe it’s the best place you will have ever been to! You never know! ????

[Enoon]

17 hours ago, Bangkok Basha said:

I've been to Georgia- 2 years ago. It's an amazing place with great food, great wine, and beautiful scenery. That said, the Caucasus region is a power keg. Armenia and Azerbaijan are on the verge of an all-out war, and the Georgian border with Russia and the breakaway Russian majority provinces is tense at best, and volatile. Revanchists in Russia (remember that Stalin was Georgian) want to recreate as much of the Soviet Union as they can, and Ukraine and George are in their sites- not so much the Islamic former Socialist Republics of the USSR. Still, I would go there for 2-3 months first to check it out first. 

 

The Caucasus?

 

No wonder I couldn't find it on my map of "Eastern Europe"!

 

Remember that Georgia (along with other Caucasian and Central Asian States) was grabbed by Imperial Russia, long before the Soviet Union was even thought of.

 

The Soviet Union merely inherited the Empire.

 

The New Russian Imperialists want to re-create the Russian Empire at the biggest it ever was, whenever it was, and regardless of the flavour of tyranny that acquired it in the first place.

 

The New Russian Imperialists are a "mash up" of all of them.

 

They are their own special, multi derived, brand of evil.

 

 

[rumak]

 

[tonray]

13 hours ago, a10ams said:

Apart from lions and tigers walking along the main streets it was fine.

In Pattaya they have only cougars and ladyboys...I'm not sure which is more dangerous