Would Thailand be a happier place with no international tourists?

[Surelynot]

21 hours ago, Promula said:

You can say that about anywhere at any time in history. That doesn't in itself make mass tourism a good idea. Perhaps 100 years from now your ancestors will look back at your life and think it was abject poverty.

Good point

[JusticeGB]

I came to Thailand the first time 40 years ago and it was a far better place open 24 hours a day. Pattaya ended at 2nd Road. All tourism has done is made tourist cities bigger, dirtier, full of cars and shopping malls. Sadly this has already happened and people have moved from the country to these cities so this can't be undone. The worst part of the tourism is the growth of group tours and their stupid coaches blocking the roads and parking places. They don't contribute anything to the smaller Thai owned businesses but only to the rich Thai Chinese owned businesses. 

[nervona81732]

23 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I go back 30 years and the abject poverty was not pleasant........you could argue either way I guess. The biggest improvement (for any country) would be to ban large group tours that dominate and destroy as they tour around.....certain nations are very apt to holiday in this fashion. 

Chinese?

[Disparate Dan]

I live in a province not far from BKK where any tourism is almost exclusively domestic. Sure, the downturn has been felt because the economy (the corruption and the other stuff we can't mention) affects every citizen and everyone is angry. But round here, no-one is keen to see foreign tourism back. There is no flu, no-one wears masks and life goes on as before. Why mess it up further?

 

It's not just the standard TV-ers' paranoia – 'they hate the farang' – either. Tourism, OVER-tourism, has ruined so many parts of Thailand just as it has many other countries. The current madness (sorry, pandemic) should be a global tool for correction; tourism/tourists should never again be allowed to [deleted] up the lives of locals – be it Phuket, Krabi, Barcelona, Venice, Sydney or anywhere else. Hence Thais' current reluctance (apart from those with their snouts in the tourism trough) to be over-run again: the 'flu' is just a pretext.

 

Currently barred from travel, I miss it like an amputation. But until I can get to where I would rather be, Thailand is about as safe and comfortable as anywhere in the world, so I agree with my neighbours – I don't want the hordes of tour groups, selfie-seekers and decrepit drunks allowed in again either.

[Promula]

8 minutes ago, Disparate Dan said:

I live in a province not far from BKK where any tourism is almost exclusively domestic. Sure, the downturn has been felt because the economy (the corruption and the other stuff we can't mention) affects every citizen and everyone is angry. But round here, no-one is keen to see foreign tourism back. There is no flu, no-one wears masks and life goes on as before. Why mess it up further?

Yep. It's only a small minority of Thais that have made themselves economically dependant on foreign tourist arrivals. I think the vast majority would prefer them kept out for the foreseeable future, and perhaps the entire future.

[Guderian]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:19 AM, Promula said:

international tourism brings in 12-15% or whatever it is of Thailand's GDP. So what?

Yes, I've said repeatedly that the 85% to 90% of Thailand's economy that doesn't depend on foreign tourism is doing OK (though some parts are hurting). Where's the logic in risking by far the largest part of your economy for the sake of 10% to 15% of it? That's called having your cake and eating it, but the Thais have become arrogant and complacent about their ability to control fresh outbreaks of the virus, when they won't even stump up the money to do a reasonable amount of testing. As that doctor at Chula said a few days ago, they are inviting catastrophe and another national lockdown.

[ThomasThBKK]

10 minutes ago, Promula said:

Yep. It's only a small minority of Thais that have made themselves economically dependant on foreign tourist arrivals. I think the vast majority would prefer them kept out for the foreseeable future, and perhaps the entire future.

Tourism, Hotels, Property owners that rent, Property developers, construction industry, architects, finance industry, car rentals, restaurants, coffee shops, 7 elevens, Family marts, shopping malls.... the list goes on forever on who profits from foreigners.

 

What a load of <deleted>. 

[Surelynot]

Just now, Guderian said:

Yes, I've said repeatedly that the 85% to 90% of Thailand's economy that doesn't depend on foreign tourism is doing OK (though some parts are hurting). Where's the logic in risking by far the largest part of your economy for the sake of 10% to 15% of it? That's called having your cake and eating it, but the Thais have become arrogant and complacent about their ability to control fresh outbreaks of the virus, when they won't even stump up the money to do a reasonable amount of testing. As that doctor at Chula said a few days ago, they are inviting catastrophe and another national lockdown.

If you look behind those figures....maybe, by comparison, a huge number of jobs are related to that 10% to 15% of GDP.....compared to the rest which probably relates to big business? Just a thought

[kingstonkid]

41 minutes ago, Disparate Dan said:

I live in a province not far from BKK where any tourism is almost exclusively domestic. Sure, the downturn has been felt because the economy (the corruption and the other stuff we can't mention) affects every citizen and everyone is angry. But round here, no-one is keen to see foreign tourism back. There is no flu, no-one wears masks and life goes on as before. Why mess it up further?

 

It's not just the standard TV-ers' paranoia – 'they hate the farang' – either. Tourism, OVER-tourism, has ruined so many parts of Thailand just as it has many other countries. The current madness (sorry, pandemic) should be a global tool for correction; tourism/tourists should never again be allowed to [deleted] up the lives of locals – be it Phuket, Krabi, Barcelona, Venice, Sydney or anywhere else. Hence Thais' current reluctance (apart from those with their snouts in the tourism trough) to be over-run again: the 'flu' is just a pretext.

 

Currently barred from travel, I miss it like an amputation. But until I can get to where I would rather be, Thailand is about as safe and comfortable as anywhere in the world, so I agree with my neighbours – I don't want the hordes of tour groups, selfie-seekers and decrepit drunks allowed in again either.

I also as most people know live north of BKK in sunny PT.  For us here tourism is important to the point that we have Dreamworld but then again the kids love it  because there are less people around.  Thais usually pack the place anyway.  As to the local economy yes it has and probably will affect some businesses  NOVOTEL is/was building a new hotel.  But to the average Thai they could care less about the tourists and more about their daily lives.  There really is  no change here.

[Promula]

27 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Tourism, Hotels, Property owners that rent, Property developers, construction industry, architects, finance industry, car rentals, restaurants, coffee shops, 7 elevens, Family marts, shopping malls.... the list goes on forever on who profits from foreigners.

 

What a load of <deleted>. 

Nobody said there's not a long list. But if you think the majority or even a significant number of Thailand's thousands of 7-eleven shops for example are going to struggle to survive without the presence of foreign tourists, you're mistaken.

 

A few dozen at most.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Promula

[BobBKK]

Everyone I know has been effected by lack of tourists. It's a dumb question.

[Promula]

9 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

I also as most people know live north of BKK in sunny PT.  For us here tourism is important to the point that we have Dreamworld but then again the kids love it  because there are less people around.  Thais usually pack the place anyway.  As to the local economy yes it has and probably will affect some businesses  NOVOTEL is/was building a new hotel.  But to the average Thai they could care less about the tourists and more about their daily lives.  There really is  no change here.

Indeed. Take the UK for example, which also receives many millions of tourists per year. Does the average Brit worry about a declne in international tourist arrivals? They couldn't care less, and have far more important things to think about.

 

It does seem that a lot of foreigners in Thailand are self-important

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, Promula said:

Indeed. Take the UK for example, which also receives many millions of tourists per year. Does the average Brit worry about a declne in international tourist arrivals? They couldn't care less, and have far more important things to think about.

 

It does seem that a lot of foreigners in Thailand are self-important

Wrong....concerns over the lack of international tourists is a major problem....the impact on the London economy in particular is serious. Many, many livelihoods depend on tourism....people are concerned.

[Disparate Dan]

6 minutes ago, Promula said:

Indeed. Take the UK for example, which also receives many millions of tourists per year. Does the average Brit worry about a declne in international tourist arrivals? They couldn't care less, and have far more important things to think about.

 

It does seem that a lot of foreigners in Thailand are self-important

I just looked up how much tourism contributes and to my surprise, it's 21.2 percent of GDP according to this:

https://en.everybodywiki.com/Contribution_from_Tourism_and_Travel_to_GDP_by_Country

which is a lot higher than I thought and twice the figure for UK or Germany, for example.

But I still agree that most people don't get to see any of that money.

[Disparate Dan]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Wrong....concerns over the lack of international tourists is a major problem....the impact on the London economy in particular is serious. Many, many livelihoods depend on tourism....people are concerned.

But then more than a third of people in London are foreigners.................

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/29/2020 at 3:46 PM, cjinchiangrai said:

The tour groups may be annoying to you but they bring a lot of money and are relatively well controlled. They are not the ones trashing the beaches and damaging the reefs. The groups offer a way to travel and work around a severe language barrier.

Was it not the tour groups that destroyed Maya Bay, causing it to be closed to all visitors? IMO it was. When I went we were not allowed on shore, but later the horde was permitted to do so.

Back then, only a few people were allowed to go on the beach and stay overnight, but when the horde arrived that all changed.

Ironic that it only became popular because of the movie The beach, but the main character of the movie, Richard, despised the sort of people that came to look.

 

Thais would, IMO, be better without so many international tourists, but there is no going back now. Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again.

Edited September 30, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, Disparate Dan said:

I just looked up how much tourism contributes and to my surprise, it's 21.2 percent of GDP according to this:

https://en.everybodywiki.com/Contribution_from_Tourism_and_Travel_to_GDP_by_Country

which is a lot higher than I thought and twice the figure for UK or Germany, for example.

But I still agree that most people don't get to see any of that money.

That's the primary but there is loads of secondary, uncounted, gains. Shops, Cinemas, Restaurants, Bars... not just the hotels, flights, tours etc.  The Thai economy is down the toilet and much of it is no foreigner's.  

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, Disparate Dan said:

But then more than a third of people in London are foreigners.................

most of England are 'foreigners' now  lol 

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, Disparate Dan said:

I just looked up how much tourism contributes and to my surprise, it's 21.2 percent of GDP according to this:

https://en.everybodywiki.com/Contribution_from_Tourism_and_Travel_to_GDP_by_Country

which is a lot higher than I thought and twice the figure for UK or Germany, for example.

But I still agree that most people don't get to see any of that money.

I always understood it was 6%, but that was before the Russian invasion and the horde arrived.

[Surelynot]

10 minutes ago, Disparate Dan said:

But then more than a third of people in London are foreigners.................

Rather hypocritical...don't you think?

[Caldera]

As with many other things, taking the middle path would be best. Mass tourism is very damaging, but having little tourism to none wouldn't be good either, as it would promote an insular and xenophobic mindset and as Thailand would miss out on lots of money that is up for grabs.

[Aspaltso]

I really like to topic in this post because it makes sense. One of the reasons many tourists started coming here was because people were friendly, and the lifestyle was great. That's still the case in many parts of the country, but there has definitely been a shift in attitude, and I can see that going back as recently as 2009 when I got here. Tourism has fattened the pockets of some, but has also brought unwelcome influences, and actually brought struggles onto others. At the very least it's good for Thais to get back to their provinces, and appreciate the simple things about their country.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Aspaltso said:

I really like to topic in this post because it makes sense. One of the reasons many tourists started coming here was because people were friendly, and the lifestyle was great. That's still the case in many parts of the country, but there has definitely been a shift in attitude, and I can see that going back as recently as 2009 when I got here. Tourism has fattened the pockets of some, but has also brought unwelcome influences, and actually brought struggles onto others. At the very least it's good for Thais to get back to their provinces, and appreciate the simple things about their country.

I think the biggest single mistake was allowing (or not preventing) other nationalities to take over the tourist hotspots. The local economies should belong to Thais and Thais alone.......not Russians, Brits, Chinese...etc

[ThomasThBKK]

9 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I think the biggest single mistake was allowing (or not preventing) other nationalities to take over the tourist hotspots. The local economies should belong to Thais and Thais alone.......not Russians, Brits, Chinese...etc

 

Who the <deleted> wants to dive with a thai dive instructor? Are you insane ???? ? 

 

Bunch of german tourists that barely speak english need a german dive instructor, russians, italians, spanish, koreans, japaenese etc chinese tour groups need chinese translators not thais that don't speak chinese.

 

You native english speakers always forget there's a majority of people out there that do NOT speak english and need fluent native speakers of whatever language they speak - thais that speak english are not of much help to most tourists.

This whole thai business only for thais is exactly the reason why thailand is thailand and not Singapore or the US. As if these pathetic protectionism actions ever helped an economy... 

[holy cow cm]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:46 AM, cjinchiangrai said:

The tour groups may be annoying to you but they bring a lot of money and are relatively well controlled. They are not the ones trashing the beaches and damaging the reefs. The groups offer a way to travel and work around a severe language barrier.

 

This years group travelers become next years independent travelers and they come with their families not just their drinking buddies.

 

That you think you are somehow better and more deserving than those "certain nations" is disturbing. If you don't like Asians, stay home.

 

I think most Thai you talk to do not like the overkill of Chinese tourists in the past but unfortunately became dependent on the money. Government steered it the wong way. I remember before the movie Lost in Thailand came out and the droves of Chinese came whipping in here. Before was a nice balance of all type of tourists but then became way way way too much. Ruined Chiang Mai in a sense.

[holy cow cm]

Problem is before the CV 19 it became seriously unbalanced and in the end all you get is flooded with too many Chinese. Tourism is what supports Thailand to a point, but too many of any nations people is just ugly. Needs to be a balance and not just a flood gate to one country the gonna call Master one day if they are not smart.

[DaLa]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I always understood it was 6%, but that was before the Russian invasion and the horde arrived.

Absolutely correct. The Thai economy has been recorded many times as 6-8% Tourism and 92-94% eating food.

[khunjeff]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:19 AM, Promula said:

Go back 30-40 years to a time when Thailand had very few international tourists, and I'm sure it was a happy place - possibly happier than it is now. 

I was living here almost 30 years ago, and there certainly were not "very few international tourists". There were more than ten million a year even back then, which, while a drop in the bucket compared to (pre-pandemic) today, was still an awful lot of visitors.

 

Were Thai people happier back then? In general, I think they were, but I think the decrease in happiness - or increase in stress - stems from societal and economic changes that are only marginally related to foreign tourism. Politics and the economy have become more ruthless, dog-eat-dog, and winner take all, and that would have stressed people out no matter what. This same phenomenon has been happening all over the world, even in countries that have little to no exposure to mass international tourism.

[Disparate Dan]

34 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Rather hypocritical...don't you think?

No.

[Promula]

52 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Wrong....concerns over the lack of international tourists is a major problem....the impact on the London economy in particular is serious. Many, many livelihoods depend on tourism....people are concerned.

Wrong. Of course there are "concerns" from interested parties, but not the majority of the population. Furthermore, more Brits travel abroad and spend their money than foreigners arrive in the UK to spend their money, so international tourism in net terms is actually damaging to the UK economy.