Deli Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 20 hours ago, Pedrogaz said: Good for Pope Francis. Please join into politics and condemn the US attempt at hegemony through endless lying. Like Joe Biden should have avoided debating Trump because of his endless lies...Pope Francis should permanently ban the other half of the evil duo, Pompeo. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthomsen111 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Morch said: What is your view based on? Is the Vatican obligated to follow USA foreign policy? Are the interests of the USA and the Vatican similar in this regard? The Vatican does not command armies, and usually goes about things in a more diplomatic way. By your line of reasoning, no country should ever criticize the policies of any other nation or organization. Criticizing the Vatican or China or Russia doesn't mean that any of these entities are necessarily obliged, legally or morally, to follow USA foreign policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said: By your line of reasoning, no country should ever criticize the policies of any other nation or organization. Criticizing the Vatican or China or Russia doesn't mean that any of these entities are necessarily obliged, legally or morally, to follow USA foreign policy. No such 'line of reasoning' offered. I made a specific comment, rather than a general one. Your post makes a claim regarding 'acquiescence to China'. This applies if adopting and embracing Trump's administration's stance. It's not necessarily how things are. Countries and governments can have different policies, different views, and different ways to go about things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthomsen111 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Morch said: No such 'line of reasoning' offered. I made a specific comment, rather than a general one. Your post makes a claim regarding 'acquiescence to China'. This applies if adopting and embracing Trump's administration's stance. It's not necessarily how things are. Countries and governments can have different policies, different views, and different ways to go about things. It may not be how things are but it can be reasonably construed to be that way. And yes, countries and governments can differ with each other. And countries and governments can criticize each other if one government sees things one way and another another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 minute ago, mthomsen111 said: It may not be how things are but it can be reasonably construed to be that way. And yes, countries and governments can differ with each other. And countries and governments can criticize each other if one government sees things one way and another another. Construed by whom? Even the usage of the term 'acquiescence' implies a not too objective point of view. The Vatican got a different agenda than the USA's - using such terms applies if one sees the latter as being more important than the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavideol Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 yes, the orange man will blame it on an attack from the left, as he said everybody is after him 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Pathetic Pope who kow-tows to the Chinese for the money (of course The Vatican doesn't have enough wealth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthomsen111 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Morch said: Construed by whom? Even the usage of the term 'acquiescence' implies a not too objective point of view. The Vatican got a different agenda than the USA's - using such terms applies if one sees the latter as being more important than the former. Well, by Catholic prelates, among others. The announcement of the Vatican’s breakthrough deal with China led critics, including prelates within the church, to accuse Francis of selling out the members of his flock who had suffered for the church. Francis argued that Catholics outside of China now had “an important duty: to accompany our brothers and sisters in China” and recalled the example of Abraham, who was called by God to set out for an unknown land to receive his inheritance. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/world/europe/china-pope-francis-catholics.html And then there's this China Is Already Breaking Its Vatican Deal https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/17/china-francis-vatican/ Edited October 2, 2020 by mthomsen111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said: Well, by Catholic prelates, among others. The announcement of the Vatican’s breakthrough deal with China led critics, including prelates within the church, to accuse Francis of selling out the members of his flock who had suffered for the church. Francis argued that Catholics outside of China now had “an important duty: to accompany our brothers and sisters in China” and recalled the example of Abraham, who was called by God to set out for an unknown land to receive his inheritance. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/world/europe/china-pope-francis-catholics.html And then there's this China Is Already Breaking Its Vatican Deal https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/17/china-francis-vatican/ Yeah, that's sort of like domestic politics. I don't know what people would expect the Pope to realistically do vs. China, in a manner that won't makes things terrible for Catholics there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthomsen111 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Morch said: Yeah, that's sort of like domestic politics. I don't know what people would expect the Pope to realistically do vs. China, in a manner that won't makes things terrible for Catholics there. It was a difficult choice. Just not so clear that coming to an agreement with the Chinese govt, made any difference as to how Chinese Catholics are treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomazbodner Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 With the direction of democracy in the US, he might better seek audience in Mecca... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthomsen111 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, tomazbodner said: With the direction of democracy in the US, he might better seek audience in Mecca... Well, the Vatican's form of government is not exactly a democracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomazbodner Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said: Well, the Vatican's form of government is not exactly a democracy. True as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChouDoufu Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 21 hours ago, Morch said: So got to wonder why Pompeo asked for a meeting. good question. why request an audience knowing he'd be refused? must consider how the refusal will play on fox, and which part of the (shrinking) base is being targeted. what are the benefits of providing trump with a new twitter target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavideol Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 33 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said: Well, the Vatican's form of government is not exactly a democracy. why should it be, it's a religious institution runned by a mafia, who would expect democracy from that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 44 minutes ago, mthomsen111 said: It was a difficult choice. Just not so clear that coming to an agreement with the Chinese govt, made any difference as to how Chinese Catholics are treated. Kinda the same with trade wars - not always easy to win, and not always the expected consequences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, BobBKK said: Pathetic Pope who kow-tows to the Chinese for the money (of course The Vatican doesn't have enough wealth) Are you quite sure it was 'for the money'? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said: good question. why request an audience knowing he'd be refused? must consider how the refusal will play on fox, and which part of the (shrinking) base is being targeted. what are the benefits of providing trump with a new twitter target? Maybe plain hubris. Maybe something to do with Catholic and/or Evangelical voting trends. Maybe more of the It's-Trump-Alone-vs-China rhetoric. Who knows. I'd go with the first one, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabothai Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 may be bully boy II, just wanted to go for a confession, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJAS Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 10/1/2020 at 7:18 PM, Morch said: Well, for one thing, the election year thing is not an issue for them. Other than that your 'any time' bit is nonsense. Never heard of sarcasm, then, have you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpoint Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 So the Vatican made deals with the Nazis, any number of corrupt and sadistic Latin American dictators, and African despots, but won't do so with the Trump Whitehouse? Kinda puts things into perspective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rott Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 10/1/2020 at 2:23 PM, Brunolem said: Why would the Pope give an audience to the antichrist? I think you've got the antichrist the wrong way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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