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New police chief lays down the law: No more checkpoints nationwide


rooster59

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27 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Then Thais could ignore registration too as they do with insurance, driver licensing and speeding fines issued electronically by speed cameras.

Then actually do something like tow the car if no licence/insurance/tax etc.

Let the driver walk/bus/taxi it home.

200 baht and don't do it again once a month is a lot cheaper than insurance/tax so why not just 'do it again'.

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Part of the problem is that the "government" (the military) and the police are two separate entities that have been in competition for decades, and have a kind of unspoken truce that they will let each other go on as they historically always have and thereby preserve the status quo and the flow of income. The government can talk about reform but in reality have agreed not to touch the police. It would take something very radical to change that.

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2 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Don't totally blame the current government as it's just mimicking the performance of previous governments when it comes to law enforcement.  Always a lot of talk about law enforcement and fighting corruption but in reality little to no concrete action.

 

2 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Previous governments failed but it's happening on this government's watch so it is their responsibility. 

 

What went before should have no bearing on the current government's expected performance and results.

 

It's the inherent nature of Thai govt and society.

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5 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

It's pretty simple.

 

A complete lack of driver education and training combined with an almost total lack of law enforcement gets us where we are today in Thailand. 

 

Blame? A total lack of leadership and management of what is a very real crisis, and that rests solely on the shoulders of the current government.

I think the thai's  aptitude has to change. Like when I am on the road, I will do it my way. Sometimes I can't believe how they drive, they come at me from all different angles. And another one is never give a sucker a even break. I never been wave in and I been driving here  for over 20 years.

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6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Checkpoints were effective for what? Can yo break that one down for us? Other than the 15-60 minute delays they caused, on the main highways, I do not see what they accomplished.

 

The idea of getting the police more involved, is an interesting one, and it would be an effective one. And the idea of getting the highway patrol, out of their air conditioned office, away from the playing card tables, and out onto the highways, would work, if they were willing to actually do it. Instead, they only show up after an accident. That is the only time I see them at work. Ever. Pulling over someone for reckless driving, is unheard of. 


The only way to survive here on the road, is to be patient, have eyes in the back of your head, drive with caution, and always, and I mean always watch out of the other guy. Chances are, he does not have much driving skill, nor patience, nor reason, nor common sense. You cannot be too careful on the road here. Especially considering that the toy police offer no traffic safety, nor enforcement of the law.
When I was growing up, we took drivers education courses. They showed us horrendous films, or semi trucks plowing into cars, and literally obliterating everything in their path. They also showed us graphic images of head on collisions. 120mph impacts. Even as a young kid, it made quite an impression. It was horrific, and it was hard to get those images out of your head afterwards. But, it left a lasting impression, and when I started driving, I understood it was serious business, and that it was a very dangerous thing to do.


I see people driving here, with their families in the car, and doing things, and taking the kinds of risks no rational or sane person with common sense would do. What for? To gain one minute? Why take those risks? What is the logic? Often, when I am cruising along at 100kph, someone cuts right in front of me. Or someone comes out from the side road, right in front of me. I have to slam on my brakes, or change lanes to avoid him. I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me. So, if he had waited two seconds, he would have had completely safe passage onto the highway. What gives? Where is the intelligence, caution, and prudence? Where is the common sense? What about just the survival instinct?


All the checkpoints do is clog traffic on the highways, and put alot of cash into the pockets of the toy police. It is all about catching people performing moving violations. That is what causes most accidents. And herein lies the deterrent. As long as everyone is allowed to get away with extremely reckless driving, entering the highway in front of an oncoming vehicle that is only 100 meters away, going 100kph, cutting in front of vehicles within one meter at high speeds, swerving like crazy idiots all over the highway, trucks and 40 year old cars occupying the fast lane doing 40kph, when other vehicles are approaching doing 120kph, drunk driving, etc, accidents, major injuries and deaths will continue to happen, and no amount of rhetoric and platitudes by the fabulously incompetent and insincere authorities are going to make any difference.

 

Some things to bear in mind, if you are driving here:


1. The police are not here to protect you. They do not care one iota about your well being, your safety, or traffic safety. Expect that. Do not employ them, unless absolutely necessary.

2. If driving, especially on a motorbike, treat the activity as an act of war, in a sense that you may be mowed down or killed at any moment.
3. Maintain eyes in the back of your head. Watch everyone. Expect craziness, insanity, lack of reason, and a complete lack of courtesy and respect on the roads, at all times.
4. Expect cars and trucks to be coming at you in the wrong lane. Expect people to overtake you with the slimmest of margins.
5. Expect trucks to be driving very slowly in the fast lane of a highway. Assume they will disrespect you, and show you no courtesy or consideration, because your vehicle is smaller than theirs.
6. If riding a motorbike, only do so if you have many years of experience. Especially on the southern islands, where huge numbers of foreigners leave Thailand in a wooden box. Wear the best helmet you can afford. And drive like a grandmother. This applies to ex-pats too. Bring along an international drivers license. This helps you to avoid being fleeced by the local police franchisee.

 

 

Totally worthless post - putting things in a list doesn't give any wight to a fallacious argument.

If you are a competent driver you shouldn't need the list - if you had to make the list, you clearly weren't expecting it.......

The truth is that generalisations and stereotyping about driving in Thailand have little or nothing to do with road safety.

You also seem unaware that when driving a 4 wheel private vehicle in Thailand, you are LESS at risk of dying than in the USA.

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3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Totally worthless post - putting things in a list doesn't give any wight to a fallacious argument.

If you are a competent driver you shouldn't need the list - if you had to make the list, you clearly weren't expecting it.......

The truth is that generalisations and stereotyping about driving in Thailand have little or nothing to do with road safety.

You also seem unaware that when driving a 4 wheel private vehicle in Thailand, you are LESS at risk of dying than in the USA.

Certainly the nonsense reply of the day. One is left speechless. The US has a 12.4 road deaths per 100,000 level. Thailand is around 37 per 100,000. Chances are, you will mention motorbikes. Even with that factored in, driving here is infinitely more dangerous. 

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Just now, spidermike007 said:

Certainly the nonsense reply of the day. One is left speechless. The US has a 12.4 road deaths per 100,000 level. Thailand is around 37 per 100,000. Chances are, you will mention motorbikes. Even with that factored in, driving here is infinitely more dangerous. 

Like so many people on this and other threads you are apparently incapable of understanding even the most basic star - 83% of road deaths in Thailand are "vulnerable road users - this does NOT include drivers and passengers of 4 wheels private vehicles.

It would be so nice if people bothered to inform themselves of the science of road safety before spouting nonsense on threads like these.

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20 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Like so many people on this and other threads you are apparently incapable of understanding even the most basic star - 83% of road deaths in Thailand are "vulnerable road users - this does NOT include drivers and passengers of 4 wheels private vehicles.

It would be so nice if people bothered to inform themselves of the science of road safety before spouting nonsense on threads like these.

I can go for days and days on the highways in the US, without seeing an accident. I can't go an hour here without seeing one. A four wheeled vehicle, or larger. 

 

Sometimes, so called science and statistics just do not tell an accurate story. Sometimes, one has to engage in good judgment, and use ones senses.

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27 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Like so many people on this and other threads you are apparently incapable of understanding even the most basic star - 83% of road deaths in Thailand are "vulnerable road users - this does NOT include drivers and passengers of 4 wheels private vehicles.

It would be so nice if people bothered to inform themselves of the science of road safety before spouting nonsense on threads like these.

something that static's do not reflect is that the average american motorcyclist might use his bike on the weekend and ride it for enjoyment so when you add up all of the hours he is on the road in a year it would probably be less than the time that a Thai spends on their bike in a month. plus there are @ 8 million motorcycles in USA and @ 20 million bikes in Thailand, thanks google.

Thais use bikes as daily transport so the stastics have to be time on bike per accident not accidents per year.

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11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I can go for days and days on the highways in the US, without seeing an accident. I can't go an hour here without seeing one. A four wheeled vehicle, or larger. 

 

Sometimes, so called science and statistics just do not tell an accurate story. Sometimes, one has to engage in good judgment, and use ones senses.

12 years and over 50 000 kilometres on bikes around thailand and i have seen 3 deaders, plenty of bingles but when i compare it to Australia it aint they bad. seen plenty of accidents when i grew up in Country Australia.

Of course i am applying the population thingy and the amount of bikes on road.

 

Most Thais drive to suit Thailand not some other country that they have never been.

 

WE are in their country so it is simple adapt or shut up.

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34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I can go for days and days on the highways in the US, without seeing an accident. I can't go an hour here without seeing one. A four wheeled vehicle, or larger. 

 

Sometimes, so called science and statistics just do not tell an accurate story. Sometimes, one has to engage in good judgment, and use ones senses.

the fact that you consider personal anecdotal evidence to be valid shows how completely out of your depth you are on this issue.

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45 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I can go for days and days on the highways in the US, without seeing an accident. I can't go an hour here without seeing one. A four wheeled vehicle, or larger. 

 

Sometimes, so called science and statistics just do not tell an accurate story. Sometimes, one has to engage in good judgment, and use ones senses.

You don’t have an argument, but what is so sad is you don’t even realise it....Your reference to statistics is risible

Firstly you quote a statistic that you think backs up your argument

When you find it doesn’t actually do that, you change your mind and try to say that statistics are rubbish.

And then the icing on the cake ! You use conjecture and anecdotal evidence to suggest your prejudices are correct.

 

You don’t even seem to realise that the original statistic you quoted is just one of a whole set.

You comments also indicate that you don’t understand that statstics need to be analysised and interpreted before they are of any use - as you haven’t got a grasp of even the basics I fail to see how you could possible form any kind of argument except for some kind of random statement apparently grabbed out  of nothing

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1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Like so many people on this and other threads you are apparently incapable of understanding even the most basic star - 83% of road deaths in Thailand are "vulnerable road users - this does NOT include drivers and passengers of 4 wheels private vehicles.

It would be so nice if people bothered to inform themselves of the science of road safety before spouting nonsense on threads like these.

Looking to the 4 wheel vehicles alone, it is quite unlikely that the US can reach Thailand in any of these aspects:

 

Lack of driving training, lack of maintenance of the vehicle, lack of securing of load, use of Yaba, Ice and other drugs, DUI, lack of police enforcement, violation of speed limits by the drivers, application of a much to high speed limit in town, transport of passengers on the cargo area of pick-ups, etc. 

 

Hardly possible that the US are as unsafe as Thailand in any aspect, also when focussing on cars alone rather than motorbikes. 

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29 minutes ago, moose7117 said:

12 years and over 50 000 kilometres on bikes around thailand and i have seen 3 deaders, plenty of bingles but when i compare it to Australia it aint they bad. seen plenty of accidents when i grew up in Country Australia.

Of course i am applying the population thingy and the amount of bikes on road.

 

Most Thais drive to suit Thailand not some other country that they have never been.

 

WE are in their country so it is simple adapt or shut up.

Yes! of course and the fact is the statitics  blindly used on these threads are just one section of a whole plethora of stats that are issued by WHO and other safety orgs.

They don't just do deaths per 100k

They look at number of crashes

Injuies are divided internationally into 3 categories - minor, serious and fatal

Other stats include the miles driven (e.g.deaths per billion KM)

Typres of road user - from pedestrians to Commercial hauliers to buffalos.

Numbers of cars, density of traffic

Vehicle ownership

Number of vehicles per mile

Type of vehicel

2-wheeld/4-wheeled, pickup, SUV, mini etc

Averae journey length

 

There are more but I think you get the drift.

 

The truth remains is that if you are driving a 4-wheeled private vehicle (e.g. sedan, pickup) in Thailand the death rate per 100k is LOWER than that in the USA.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Flying Saucage said:

 

Looking to the 4 wheel vehicles alone, it is quite unlikely that the US can reach Thailand in any of these aspects:

 

Lack of driving training, lack of maintenance of the vehicle, lack of securing of load, use of Yaba, Ice and other drugs, DUI, lack of police enforcement, violation of speed limits by the drivers, application of a much to high speed limit in town, transport of passengers on the cargo area of pick-ups, etc. 

 

Hardly possible that the US are as unsafe as Thailand in any aspect, also when focussing on cars alone rather than motorbikes. 

Looking at single issues does not give a good overall picture.

There are stats for unroadworthy in some countries.

Thailand is remarkably bad at providing good RTI stats and the result is that in some areas the figures are educated guesswork - however this is science-grade guesswork by international statisticians

Unroadworthy vehicles come under E in the 5 Es of road safety - Engineering this covers 2 aspects - Road design and engineering and vehicle design and engineering.

It also comes under the E for enforcement - and in Thailand that is very poor - also the type of vehicles on the road are themselves often poor performers in RTIs and the mix of traffic is deadly - this is under E for road engineering a design.

Enforcement is not just "getting the police to do their job" - it is training properly a road traffic police force and then setting up a legal system capable of quickly dealing with the resulting offences and collecting fines. Thailand has none of this.

 

Unless the government totally rethink their views on road safety (this is not only driving as some think) and adopt the "Safe System" holistic approach, the road deaths in death will NEVER significantly change.

Such things as the operation of checkpoints are in themselves merely an indication of how utterly out of touch the Thai authorities are with modern road safety science. (and also the possibility of how corrupt policing can become)

 

There are plenty of organisations, International ASEAN and national level, that try to promote road safety in Thailand but the authorities steadfastly resist any advice.

They continue to build dangerous roads, their policing is mostly inefective and the eduction of road users is back in the last century. Unfortunately the average expat who has driven for years thinks/she must be an expert because of this but the reality is they are in general as ignorant on road safety as the Thai authorities are. In fact if you reflect on the road safety sacred cows held so dear, you will realise that far from being the solution, they are in fact the causes of Thailand's appalling road safety record

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8 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Looking at single issues does not give a good overall picture.

There are stats for unroadworthy in some countries.

Thailand is remarkably bad at providing good RTI stats and the result is that in some areas the figures are educated guesswork - however this is science-grade guesswork by international statisticians

Unroadworthy vehicles come under E in the 5 Es of road safety - Engineering this covers 2 aspects - Road design and engineering and vehicle design and engineering.

It also comes under the E for enforcement - and in Thailand that is very poor - also the type of vehicles on the road are themselves often poor performers in RTIs and the mix of traffic is deadly - this is under E for road engineering a design.

Enforcement is not just "getting the police to do their job" - it is training properly a road traffic police force and then setting up a legal system capable of quickly dealing with the resulting offences and collecting fines. Thailand has none of this.

 

Unless the government totally rethink their views on road safety (this is not only driving as some think) and adopt the "Safe System" holistic approach, the road deaths in death will NEVER significantly change.

Such things as the operation of checkpoints are in themselves merely an indication of how utterly out of touch the Thai authorities are with modern road safety science. (and also the possibility of how corrupt policing can become)

 

There are plenty of organisations, International ASEAN and national level, that try to promote road safety in Thailand but the authorities steadfastly resist any advice.

They continue to build dangerous roads, their policing is mostly inefective and the eduction of road users is back in the last century. Unfortunately the average expat who has driven for years thinks/she must be an expert because of this but the reality is they are in general as ignorant on road safety as the Thai authorities are. In fact if you reflect on the road safety sacred cows held so dear, you will realise that far from being the solution, they are in fact the causes of Thailand's appalling road safety record

Very good post, thank you! 

 

Coming from a civilized country with one of the best police forces in the world, inclunding special traffic police officers who even could explain any garage how to do proper repair and maintance of trucks, and having myself good knowlegde and background of (driving) physics, I agree to all your points.

 

A holisitc approach is essential, but the powers-that-be have other priorities and don't care much about the common people on the road, their safety and their lifes. Nothing will ever happen, as long as the political system stays as it is in Thailand.

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52 minutes ago, Flying Saucage said:

Very good post, thank you! 

 

Coming from a civilized country with one of the best police forces in the world, inclunding special traffic police officers who even could explain any garage how to do proper repair and maintance of trucks, and having myself good knowlegde and background of (driving) physics, I agree to all your points.

 

A holisitc approach is essential, but the powers-that-be have other priorities and don't care much about the common people on the road, their safety and their lifes. Nothing will ever happen, as long as the political system stays as it is in Thailand.

The ridiculous thing about the road safety situation here is it costs the nation trillions of baht every year. That's hospital/emergency services, lost income through death and disability lost skills and even insurance pay-outs.

I guess it is significant the Thailand's rich/poor gap ranks it 3rd in th world behind India and Russia.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Then Thais could ignore registration too as they do with insurance, driver licensing and speeding fines issued electronically by speed cameras.

But they also have highway patrol cars specifically set up to check registration, all police vehicles have computers as standard equipment to also check registration and driver qualifications, something that Thailand does not have the ability to procure or the ability to get the lazy Police of their backsides and actually do the job their paid to do 

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On 10/3/2020 at 9:50 AM, rooster59 said:

This will mean an end to roadside checks for DUI

The follow up article will read

 

Taxi motorbikes unable to feed their families as they have fewer customers. 

 

Drunk drivers choosing to drive their own vehicles from bars back home after a drinking session. 

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21 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Yes! of course and the fact is the statitics  blindly used on these threads are just one section of a whole plethora of stats that are issued by WHO and other safety orgs.

They don't just do deaths per 100k

They look at number of crashes

Injuies are divided internationally into 3 categories - minor, serious and fatal

Other stats include the miles driven (e.g.deaths per billion KM)

Typres of road user - from pedestrians to Commercial hauliers to buffalos.

Numbers of cars, density of traffic

Vehicle ownership

Number of vehicles per mile

Type of vehicel

2-wheeld/4-wheeled, pickup, SUV, mini etc

Averae journey length

 

There are more but I think you get the drift.

 

The truth remains is that if you are driving a 4-wheeled private vehicle (e.g. sedan, pickup) in Thailand the death rate per 100k is LOWER than that in the USA.

 

 

 

 

WOW, Somebody sorta agrees with me !

 

Thats a first.

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Personally, I would rather have an occasional forced slowdown police check rather than a police state with Cameras placed everywhere. With those Cameras, also comes the automatic fines in the mail that do virtually nothing but rid your pocket of 500thb for going 2km over the speed limit. However, I think most of this is just talk. Any new guy is just gonna make a good show of it for the first couple weeks, then it's business as usual after that.

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