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COVID-19 is not going away soon or ever


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I concur that health professionals should have put a higher priority on getting people to take personal responsibility with their health - to save lives from covid, and in general, there could be govt advertising getting people to lose weight, get fit, eat better. 

I  disagree with the argument that because passing on disease is part of life that the same personal responsibility applies when there is a pandemic. If you have an awareness that there are steps you can take to save lives, and disregard them, and this leads to death then you should feel somewhat responsible because you are. Pretty obvious I would have thought. 

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Not like a regular flu at all. They want masks and distancing to be permanent. None of that happened for regular flu or any other diseases, far as I know. I'm happy to go back to life as pre coro

eventually, everyone will copy sweden and move on as it was a year ago, but its bitter and humiliating for politicians around the world to admit they committed high treason on their own coun

Not to mention that they have destroyed their countries' already fragile economies, that will need years to recover, if ever...

Posted Images

On 11/1/2020 at 2:37 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

oh ya, lots of "green shoots"...

 

Per Johns Hopkins Oct. 30 COVID update:

 

 

France
On Tuesday October 27, 33,000 new cases were confirmed in France, at their highest level since April. French President Emmanuel Macron announced that the entire country will be re-entering a nationwide lockdown beginning today, October 30, and lasting until December 1.
 
Germany
Similar to France’s actions, German Chancellor Angela Merkel announced that Germany would be entering a nationwide partial lockdown. The lockdown period is set to begin on November 2 and end on November 30.
 
RUSSIA MASK MANDATE AND VACCINE The Russian government issued an order, effective Wednesday, mandating that masks be worn in all public spaces or where more than 50 people may gather.
 
etc etc etc.

And now a break from the hysteria of everyone with a different view being accused of Covid denier, that heinous crime of attempted murder, merely for discussing ideas on a forum.

 

But anyway I can understand why any American would prefer to be negative this year, up to now at least. And I wouldn't bother arguing with your Johns Hopkins quotes, I have no problem with that. Contrast to the mostly different situation across most of Asia, Oceania, even India and Africa and other places. Well and truly more than half the population of the world. Also research, treatment, and  public health methods are a moving picture. I will retain hope thanks and remain positive, the alternative has not been doing me any favours mentally. 

Edited by Bluetongue
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1 hour ago, PatrickC said:

 

So what, you expect us to take responsibility for other people's health? Seriously? Why?

 

Why should someone else's junk food habit impact me?

 

Doesn't work that way buddy. If you eat junk food and get a pre-existing condition, that is your fault.

 

Simple solution: eat healthy, cut the sugar out of your diet, stop drinking, don't smoke. Problem solved.

You are a heartless and selfish person.  You admit that if you crashed a car and caused someone else harm, you'd be responsible.  But if you don't wear a mask, and cause another to become sick because you are infected with CV19, then you are blameless.

 

Seriously?  Wow...stunning admission.

 

What's junk food got to do with this?  Terrible deflection.

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1 hour ago, PatrickC said:

 

So what, you expect us to take responsibility for other people's health? Seriously? Why?

 

Why should someone else's junk food habit impact me?

 

Doesn't work that way buddy. If you eat junk food and get a pre-existing condition, that is your fault.

 

Simple solution: eat healthy, cut the sugar out of your diet, stop drinking, don't smoke. Problem solved.

For @scammed also.  Worth a read, if you can. 😂

 

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/pandemic-deniers-what-s-with-them

 

https://www.newsweek.com/how-talk-covid-deniers-1525496

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/experts-explain-why-virus-deniers-ignore-covid-19-warnings-2020-9

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5 hours ago, PatrickC said:

 

Precisely - 12 months for an effective vaccine to be rolled out is a pipedream. Not going to happen.

 

We can't stop the world turning for 3 years while this all falls into place.

I said:

"It will take years for vaccinations to circle the world and reach remote locations. By that time we will be giving boosters to the first vaccinees."

 

You say 12 months. From when? Now?

 

By saying that it will take years for vaccination to reach remote locations, that does not apply to Thailand, most of Asia/Oceania, Europe, and the Western Hemisphere. In this more connected part of the World, it's possible that vaccinations for those who want could be done by the end of next year. This is a public health struggle, but we can't gave up!

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5 minutes ago, PatrickC said:

 

To say people who want to move on with life are giving up is a misinterpretation of events. It is the opposite. We simply want to move on with life and accept that it is what it is. We're not interested in the constant victimhood of worrying about covid all the time. When a vaccine comes along, great. Until it does, not worth stopping life. It is about not being a victim, accepting what has happened, and getting on with life.

 

By saying we're giving up you're also making it out as an ongoing fight. It is not a fight. The virus has spread globally so has already won. Fight is over. There is nothing to give up on. Covid won the fight months ago. This is like walking around a town that has been wiped out by a tsunami and saying we need to prepare a tsunami warning system. It is a done deal. Just move on.

Being laid back is great, but it makes a great difference whether people follow good practices such as wearing masks and social distancing. Things could be a lot worse if people did not take care. As it is, hospitals in sparsely populated parts of the US are about to be overwhelmed. In these areas a lot of people drank the Trump Kool-aid and lived care free. Now what?  I doubt that Biden (if elected) could change these mentalities. We are in for a sad Winter. 

 

Theoretically, there is liability if someone consciously infects others, whether by AIDS or Covid, but with asymptomatic Covid it would be difficult to prove that it wasn't someone else who was responsible. Anyway, I hope that Biden's people will take expert advice and start wide-spread antigen testing to break the transmission chain. There are definitely things that we can do in addition to vaccines.

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There is a new explosion of infections in Sweden so the herd immunity they were looking for did not work.

Since 10 days ago there has been a big increase of COVID-19 patients submitted to  hospital , and many of them in intensive care.  Especially the bigger cities like Stockholm have a big increase of cases.
 
Not looking good at all.
 
"COVID-19 cases have increased 70 percent in one week in Sweden"

Edited by balo
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10 hours ago, balo said:

There is a new explosion of infections in Sweden so the herd immunity they were looking for did not work.

Since 10 days ago there has been a big increase of COVID-19 patients submitted to  hospital , and many of them in intensive care.  Especially the bigger cities like Stockholm have a big increase of cases.
 
Not looking good at all.
 
"COVID-19 cases have increased 70 percent in one week in Sweden"

Clearly something is going on, but deaths are not rising yet.  Many second waves in the EU are starting with younger people.

 

image.png.56ff2e78a7ea4b1ae3cd1ac7191a6e29.png

 

Edited by rabas
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23 hours ago, placnx said:

I said:

"It will take years for vaccinations to circle the world and reach remote locations. By that time we will be giving boosters to the first vaccinees."

 

You say 12 months. From when? Now?

 

By saying that it will take years for vaccination to reach remote locations, that does not apply to Thailand, most of Asia/Oceania, Europe, and the Western Hemisphere. In this more connected part of the World, it's possible that vaccinations for those who want could be done by the end of next year. This is a public health struggle, but we can't gave up!

In this more connected part of the World, it's possible that vaccinations for those who want could be done by the end of next year.

 

Those that want to take the vaccine can do so, but many of us will refuse till it's been proven to be harmless.

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5 hours ago, rabas said:

Clearly something is going on, but deaths are not rising yet.  Many second waves in the EU are starting with younger people.

 

image.png.56ff2e78a7ea4b1ae3cd1ac7191a6e29.png

 

 

I have noticed this, and am closely monitoring the daily death rate.  It does look like Sweden didn't achieve "herd immunity".  I realize there is a 2-4 week window after spikes to see mortality, but if cases spike but the death rate remains relatively unchanged, that would indicate either the virus is weakening or our treatments are becoming more efficacious.  

 

Or letting the young and healthy get infected is a reasonable approach.  

 

I know we're all going in circles, but do people really think there is no health cost to the massive economic damage we're causing?  Is this just about inconvenience vs. granny killing? 

 

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Some posters here like to falsely, and probably intentionally, present a false choice for the world -- it's either let the virus run rampant and inflict whatever damage it will killing granny OR resort to those horrible, freedom and economy destroying lockdowns.

 

I think they like to present that false choice because they really don't want to have to acknowledge that most lockdowns probably can/could be avoided if people, a large majority of people, would simply follow the common sense precautionary steps that health authorities have long been recommending, but too many virus denying citizens have been ignoring.

 

To wit: wear a mask when away from home where you're going to be in close contact with others, maintain social distancing and avoid areas of crowds, especially indoors, practice good hand cleaning hygiene, and avoid unnecessarily touching your hands to your face/eyes/nose, mouth, etc.

 

But no, it's easier to ignore all those things as too many people are doing even in high infection parts of the world, and then wail and complain about Big Brother government hurting the economies and impinging on personal freedoms... And all of that, in large part, because those same people complaining couldn't exercise enough common sense and concern for the health of themselves and those around them to prevent the lockdowns from being necessary.

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On 11/3/2020 at 4:43 PM, PatrickC said:

It is not a fight. The virus has spread globally so has already won. Fight is over. There is nothing to give up on. Covid won the fight months ago. This is like walking around a town that has been wiped out by a tsunami and saying we need to prepare a tsunami warning system. It is a done deal. Just move on.

 

It's nowhere close to being over or a done deal.

 

Even in the U.S., which has more CV cases than any other country in the world and one of the top dozen highest per capita rates, estimates are that only about 10% of the population as of recently has been exposed to the virus based on serology testing, and that relatively small share already has accounted for more than 230,000 deaths.

 

Do nothing, and let the virus continue to spread and infect more widely, and there's still the vast majority of the country's population that have yet to be touched by the virus. Meaning lots more people who can be exposed, and lots more people who could face hospitalization and ultimately death, with the U.S. currently running about a 2.4% case fatality rate (meaning about 2.4% of the people confirmed to have the virus end up dying overall).

 

Either people begin to protect themselves individually, governments enforce it thru lockdowns, or the virus toll is going to continue spiraling upward. So the fight is not even close to being over, by any means.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/less-10-us-population-has-covid-19-antibodies-data-show

 

Quote

 

Less than 10% of a nationally representative sample of US dialysis patients had antibodies against COVID-19, showing that herd immunity will remain out of reach for quite some time, according to a study published late last week in The Lancet.

Researchers from Stanford University and Ascend Clinical Laboratories tested the serum of 28,503 patients receiving treatment at 1,300 dialysis centers in 1,013 counties (32% of all US counties) in 46 states in July to estimate how many had been exposed to COVID-19.

 

They found that 8.2% to 9.4% of the sample had COVID-19 antibodies, indicating exposure to the virus. After comparing the estimates with case counts from Johns Hopkins University, the researchers calculated that about 9.3% of the US population had been infected, with regional variation ranging from less than 5% in the West to more than 25% in the Northeast.

 

 

And that relatively small share of the population has already produced this:

Screenshot_3.jpg.7eb7fe1dfbe913db1d9a1523258f0819.jpg

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fcases-updates%2Fcases-in-us.html#cases_casesper100klast7days

 

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7 hours ago, tlock said:

but if cases spike but the death rate remains relatively unchanged, that would indicate either the virus is weakening or our treatments are becoming more efficacious.  


Or maybe the elderly population are more protected today then back in March - April -May when 5000 people over the age of 70 died in Sweden. 

Also the hospitals are better prepared to treat the patients.  

Edited by balo
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8 hours ago, tlock said:

I realize there is a 2-4 week window after spikes to see mortality, but if cases spike but the death rate remains relatively unchanged, that would indicate either the virus is weakening or our treatments are becoming more efficacious.

1> Sweden's cases started to pick up (initially more gradually) from the start of Sept; that 'should be' plenty of time to work through to deaths.

2> Some other possiblilities:

- they've increased their testing rate (massively, eg 10x)

- this wave is mainly a weaker strain (rather than the virus weakening generally)

- the vulnerable groups are better protected/protecting themselves

- the most vulnerable died in the first wave

(Obviously I hope the reasons you suggested are correct...)

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