O-A Extension of Stay and eligibility for COE Application.

[Kadilo]

First of all apologies if this has been covered recently. I can find comments relating to it but I am still unclear where I stand hence the question. 
 

I am currently in the UK and have a current O-A Extension of Stay based on Retirement with a Re entry Permit due to expire March 2021. I have current Thai insurance obtained for my extension last year. 
 

This was extended from an original Non Immigrant O-A Retirement Visa obtained from the Thai Embassy in London in 2017.  
 

Apologies if I have not used the exact correct terminology above. 
 

This is what the website currently says for a Non Immigrant O-A:

 

For long-stay visa holder (Non-Immigrant O-A/O-X)

While Thailand still puts in place travel restriction, foreign nationals who are holder of Non-Immigrant O-A and O-X can apply for the Certificate of Entry to go to Thailand.  If your spouse wishes to go to Thailand with you, both of you must apply for O-A/O-X visa (non-O retirement visa is not permitted).

Required documents : 

1. Your passport copy
2. Copy of your O-A/O-X visa 
3. Copy of health insurance policy which covers COVID-19 related medical expenses in Thailand no less than 100,000 USD for the whole period of your stay in Thailand
4. Declaration form
5. A copy of flight confirmation
6. A copy of ASQ booking confirmation

If your visa has expired, you have to apply for a new visa. You must meet the requirements for O-A/O-X visa. Please see our visa page for more detail.

must meet the requirements for O-A/O-X visa. Please see our visa page for more detail.

 

My question is am I eligible to apply in my current situation with a valid extension, or does the line above in bold mean I have to re apply for a new Visa? 
 

Many thanks
 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Kadilo

[Sheryl]

To my understanding you are eligible.

 

Note the COVID insurance requirement,  This is additional to O-A insurance requirement.  If your O-A insurance is less than $100k then you will need another policy. Otherwise will need a letter from the insurer stating COVID is covered.

[MRToMRT]

I agree you are OK to apply for COE

[Kadilo]

Thank you both. 
 

It was the wording re the “If the visa has Expired, you have to apply for a new visa” that kind threw me because correct me if I’m wrong but technically it has expired. 
 

I asked the embassy the same question and they just sent the above link which I already knew despite me explaining my personal situation. 
 

 

[Kadilo]

51 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

To my understanding you are eligible.

 

Note the COVID insurance requirement,  This is additional to O-A insurance requirement.  If your O-A insurance is less than $100k then you will need another policy. Otherwise will need a letter from the insurer stating COVID is covered.

I am currently with Pacific Cross but I don’t think the coverage is sufficient. I will check and if necessary pay for the upgrade. 

[rumak]

1 hour ago, Kadilo said:

t was the wording re the “If the visa has Expired, you have to apply for a new visa” that kind threw me because correct me if I’m wrong but technically it has expired. 

your original post says  " am currently in the UK and have a current O-A Extension of Stay based on Retirement with a Re entry Permit due to expire March 2021."

 

due to expire March 2021.    so why do you say "technically it has expired"  ?

[Kadilo]

13 minutes ago, rumak said:

your original post says  " am currently in the UK and have a current O-A Extension of Stay based on Retirement with a Re entry Permit due to expire March 2021."

 

due to expire March 2021.    so why do you say "technically it has expired"  ?

I mean the visa has technically expired after a year (2018), the extension is until March 2021. ......or am I talking Donald?

[rumak]

Just now, Kadilo said:

I mean the visa has technically expired after a year (2018), the extension is until March 2021. ......or am I talking Donald?

well, i don't know what talking Donald means   lol      but,  the answers you have received with positivity are based on the fact that your last extension is NOT EXPIRED.    

Don't think too mutt   ........    ( but if you do,  having a still valid extension means that your Visa has NOT expired).   

My original Visa was from like 20  years ago.   I just continually extend it each year . 

 

seems like your main issue is satisfying the insurance requirements.  good luck.  

[rumak]

just to add ............... i have learnt not to ask questions that might confuse "officials".    

I try to get my sht together beforehand and present what i think is needed/wanted ,

then cross fingers and hope they won't complicate things.  If they do i follow as well as i can

 

the problems with returning to thailand are there are MANY complications that might pop up as

the "list"  is so extensive.  From anecdotes on TV,  much depends on the individual embassies that

members are dealing with.   Some a pain,  some no answers,  and some helpful

 

[Kadilo]

42 minutes ago, rumak said:

just to add ............... i have learnt not to ask questions that might confuse "officials".    

I try to get my sht together beforehand and present what i think is needed/wanted ,

then cross fingers and hope they won't complicate things.  If they do i follow as well as i can

 

the problems with returning to thailand are there are MANY complications that might pop up as

the "list"  is so extensive.  From anecdotes on TV,  much depends on the individual embassies that

members are dealing with.   Some a pain,  some no answers,  and some helpful

 

Talking Donald = talking sh.ite, like the Trump man. I’m sadly from Essex and we use a lot of these kind of eupherisms (I think that’s the right word). 
 

Thanks for your help  It’s good to know if I am able to go, I have the right eligibility. The insurance part I can sort, the main problem is getting enough time off work to be able to jump through all the hoops. 
 

I will sit tight til the new year and see if there are any more developments before i jump in.  
 

Thanks again. 

[Maestro]

You should allow for the possibility, in fact for the strong likelihood, that the Thai embassy will not give you a Certificate of Entry (COE) on the basis of your retirement extension but will ask you to apply for a new non-O/A visa.

 

One of the requirements for the COE is clearly a valid visa, not a valid extension of stay.

[Kadilo]

21 minutes ago, Maestro said:

You should allow for the possibility, in fact for the strong likelihood, that the Thai embassy will not give you a Certificate of Entry (COE) on the basis of your retirement extension but will ask you to apply for a new non-O/A visa.

 

One of the requirements for the COE is clearly a valid visa, not a valid extension of stay.

As I posted earlier, this is where my confusion laid re their line on the website:

“If your visa has expired, you have to apply for a new visa”

 

So now I have 3 people saying I should be ok, and yourself saying it’s very unlikely. 
 

Why should I need to get another new Visa when my current extension is perfectly valid and in date. Or is it just another money grab?

 

 

 

 

 

[MRToMRT]

Just fill in the online COE request (first stage which does not need any flight or hotel details) and they will pre-approve or disapprove usually within a few hours. Then you will have your answer 100%

[BritTim]

In a rational world, you would not need to ask your question. As it is, your question is a good one. It seems logical that a permission to stay, protected with a reentry permit, from an original Non O-A visa would qualify. However, as you yourself say, the original visa has expired, and there is little difference between an extension of stay from an original Non O and an extension from a Non O-A. They may actually require you to apply for a fresh Non O-A visa. If @MRToMRT is correct, trying for initial approval of the CoE may, indeed, be the way to get a straight answer from the embassy.

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, rumak said:

Don't think too mutt   ........    ( but if you do,  having a still valid extension means that your Visa has NOT expired).   

My original Visa was from like 20  years ago.   I just continually extend it each year . 

You don't have a valid visa. It expired many years ago. You have been extending the permit to stay it allowed that is not a visa of any kind. 

 

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

To my understanding you are eligible.

Referring to this from The Thai Embassy London 'Requirements for a CofE'

https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/119247-requirements-for-certificate-of-entry-during-travel-restriction?page=5d6636cd15e39c3bd00072dd&menu=5f4b6eb3f6ae4b236972c562

I do not see that..... retirement extensions  are not mentioned and he does not hold a O-A nor O-X or Elite Visa.

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, Kadilo said:

As I posted earlier, this is where my confusion laid re their line on the website:

“If your visa has expired, you have to apply for a new visa”

So now I have 3 people saying I should be ok, and yourself saying it’s very unlikely. 
Why should I need to get another new Visa when my current extension is perfectly valid and in date. Or is it just another money grab?

I am another one that thinks they will want you to apply for a new OA visa. Just going by the words from the website you quoted. You should still do application for a COE.

This from the embassy "If your spouse wishes to go to Thailand with you, both of you must apply for O-A/O-X visa (non-O retirement visa is not permitted)." is also a problem. I assume she is on a extension for being a member of your family and started out with a non-o visa.

I think what the embassy wrote may not be correct or for the OA visa they did not include family members. Just looked at the webpage for the COE requirements and only the only one that mention family members is for those who have work permits and parents of a child attending school.

 

[Kadilo]

5 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

Just fill in the online COE request (first stage which does not need any flight or hotel details) and they will pre-approve or disapprove usually within a few hours. Then you will have your answer 100%

Good suggestion. Thanks for that. 

[Kadilo]

Thank for all for your feedback. 
 

I will complete the application and go from there. 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Referring to this from The Thai Embassy London 'Requirements for a CofE'

https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/119247-requirements-for-certificate-of-entry-during-travel-restriction?page=5d6636cd15e39c3bd00072dd&menu=5f4b6eb3f6ae4b236972c562

I do not see that..... retirement extensions  are not mentioned and he does not hold a O-A nor O-X or Elite Visa.

He has an extension of stay based on an original OA visa. I think that would fall under the O-A visa provision. But should confim with the embassy.

[jnp73]

11 hours ago, Kadilo said:

I am currently with Pacific Cross but I don’t think the coverage is sufficient. I will check and if necessary pay for the upgrade. 

Regency for Expats are offering a $100,000 Covid and general medical insurance, called Essential Plan, that might be useful.

[Kadilo]

29 minutes ago, jnp73 said:

Regency for Expats are offering a $100,000 Covid and general medical insurance, called Essential Plan, that might be useful.

Cheers for the heads up. 

[Kadilo]

33 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

He has an extension of stay based on an original OA visa. I think that would fall under the O-A visa provision. But should confim with the embassy.

I tried contacting them and sent an email with my situation which they replied to with the standard link to the requirements so the main question is still unanswered. 
 

As others have said I will just apply for the first stage of COE then I guess that will answer it either way. 

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

I tried contacting them and sent an email with my situation which they replied to with the standard link to the requirements so the main question is still unanswered. 
 

As others have said I will just apply for the first stage of COE then I guess that will answer it either way. 

Sounds like a good plan. Let us know the result. Be sure when you upload your passport pages to include both the original O-A visa and the extension page

[rumak]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You don't have a valid visa. It expired many years ago. You have been extending the permit to stay it allowed that is not a visa of any kind. 

 

wow,  the devil is in the wording , i guess.   I do not see a comment from you whether or not the OP

would "be ok"    edit :  have now seen your comment     

All the forms i do with immigration usually have a place for "type of visa" ...... which for me is 

a NON O.    I write in NON O .    They do not say, no you do not have a non o,  it is expired. ??

 

oh well,  i am aware that every year i get an extension of stay .   nowhere did an immig. officer ever tell me that I do not have a valid visa.    but,  is this really worth arguing about ?

 

the feedback from some NON O holders on tv  has been that some embassies are telling them they can not enter on that (even if they have a re entry permit).    my assumption is that they are told they need to change to an O-A  because the govt wants to force them to get health ins.  ....... even though

they already have 800k  or  400k  parked in a bank already. (yes, i realize not the case with Kadilo, as he has had

an O-A

 

Those of us who have not left Thailand are not yet required to buy insurance,   and I can still get by with my NON O,    excuse me,    expired NON O visa extension of stay   as i have for many years.

Edited October 16, 2020 by rumak

[Max69xl]

13 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Thank you both. 
 

It was the wording re the “If the visa has Expired, you have to apply for a new visa” that kind threw me because correct me if I’m wrong but technically it has expired. 
 

I asked the embassy the same question and they just sent the above link which I already knew despite me explaining my personal situation. 
 

 

You don't have a visa, you're on an extension based on an initial O-A Visa with a valid re-entry permit. You're good to go if you accept the hurdles and the total cost to get the CoE. You'll be lucky if you can stay below ฿100,000. 

[Kadilo]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You don't have a visa, you're on an extension based on an initial O-A Visa with a valid re-entry permit. You're good to go if you accept the hurdles and the total cost to get the CoE. You'll be lucky if you can stay below ฿100,000. 

Yeah I get that I am on an extension. 
 

The bit I am struggling with is if everything was as it was I could enter Thailand tomorrow and stay for til March no problem, but now to enter I have to (according to the wording) apply for a new Visa. 
 

It doesn’t make me any more legal to enter. It just resets my Visa. 

[Maestro]

10 hours ago, Kadilo said:

...Why should I need to get another new Visa when my current extension is perfectly valid and in date. Or is it just another money grab?

 

An extension of stay is not a visa.

 

A re-entry permit is not a visa.

 

A sticker or a stamp with the word "Visa" on it is a visa.

[Peter Denis]

Embassies are not familiar with 'extensions of stay' as the latter are only provided by local Immigration offices. 

Just like these local IOs call everything a Visa even if in 95% of cases thy mean an 'extension of stay'.

>> This sloppiness in use of correct terminology often creates problems.

I agree that the intent should be a valid permission to stay (protected by a Re-Entry Permit) based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa, but if they go 'by the book' they might force you to apply for a new Non Imm O-A Visa, as the validity of your current Non Imm O-A Visa has indeed expired.

Do keep us informed on how it packs out... and wish you success!

 

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Embassies are not familiar with 'extensions of stay' as the latter are only provided by local Immigration offices. 

Just like these local IOs call everything a Visa even if in 95% of cases thy mean an 'extension of stay'.

>> This sloppiness in use of correct terminology often creates problems.

I agree that the intent should be a valid permission to stay (protected by a Re-Entry Permit) based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa, but if they go 'by the book' they might force you to apply for a new Non Imm O-A Visa, as the validity of your current Non Imm O-A Visa has indeed expired.

Do keep us informed on how it packs out... and wish you success!

 

Cheers Peter, thank for your reply. 
 

I fully understand the differences, what I don’t Understand is why, if that is their intent, they are asking for a new Visa when 7 months ago I extended it in a Thai IO, meeting all their requirements including the financial ones and the new Thai Insurance, only having to do it all again back here. 
 

Hypothetically I could turn up in December with a new Visa, and a still valid extension/re entry permit with 3 months left. What is the benefit of the Visa, if not another money grab? I don’t believe it adds anything and I’m pretty sure they won’t be refunding the existing one  

Edited October 16, 2020 by Kadilo