EU tells Britain to give ground to secure trade deal, UK to respond Friday

[pixelaoffy]

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Oh dear.

EU has been 'missing ' any useful purpose for years now! A failing bureaucratic protection racket

[pixelaoffy]

31 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

When you as farang wants to do business inside Thailand, you have to do that in accordance with Thai laws, unless... you can make another agreement with the Thai governement ( special BOI rights etc)

When you as non-EU company/citizen wants do do business inside the EU, you have to do that in accordance with EU laws. When you want special rules, you have to make an agreement.

 

The EU want a same level of playing field for all businesses inside the EU, so inclusive the British business, especially the rules on state aid, where the British want to be able to support their businesses unhindered. 
Secondly, in the event of disagreement about, for example, state aid/support, dispute resolution is an important part of the process.

The UK refuses both.

Could you accept a US competition, who gets a 50% labour costs embursement or a 20 % export fee from the US gov. to compete inside the British Isles ? No complaint to make anywhere ?

 

A third, but stirred up by Brexiteers, are the British fishing grounds ( 0,12 % of British GDP) . For the French fishermen also of importance. The British forget, the majority of their fishing rights ( = quota) are already decades ago sold to other EU fishermen, for instance: 80% of the Welch quota out of the Welsh waters to Spanish fishermen.

The British want to cancel these sales ( as their Withdrawal act: even ratified, but now worth not even the ink it is signed with )

 

Sorry, the times the British could use theri Ships of the Line or gunboats lies a century behind us.

Dont know where to start with that pile of nonsensical junk !

[RayC]

17 minutes ago, sidgy said:

i think any one wanted to do business inside the EU will do so according to EU laws, same as for any nation in the world and i dont think anyone is asking for special rules in this regard, if i am incorrect, please point me in the right direction

https://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_aid/overview/index_en.html

 

The UK does not agree to the verification (or resolution) process wrt state aid. 

[Loiner]

Breaking:

EU tells Boris to give ground. Boris says No.

 

Merkel is still begging for more time, but she's too late.

[ukrules]

Here it is :

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by ukrules

[2 is 1]

56 minutes ago, Patts said:

Well I asked you to explain it to me and after a couple of hours you haven't! I am a business owner who manufactures electronics and exports all over the world so thanks for your assumption! 

So you dont understand deal between WTO rules or like EU deal before!? I dont know what you sell , maybe Durasell bunny!? WTO rules is like "dont have rules" and that means every coundry can deside them self! If UK get out whitout deal whit EU , you can see place like Kent is place where is nothing else that truck to waiting on line! I dont know how much export from UK go to EU coundry's but they have own deal between eatch other. Anyway Eu is 6 times more big than UK in economy way! So if small want deal whit bigger i think you know how it goes! If you are "Duracell bunny" factory man!

[sidgy]

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

ttps://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_aid/overview/index_en.html

 

The UK does not agree to the verification (or resolution) process wrt state aid. 

yes, i understand the EU would like the UK to agree to their rules on state aid for  businesses trading with the EU, rightly or wrongly depending on your views

However, if you read @puipuitom post he inferred it was because the UK  wanted "special rules" on state aid with regard to businesses operating in the EU ,  which i agree would be totally unacceptable, but i cannot see where the UK has asked for this so thinking he may have made it up

[Srikcir]

'protecting UK fishing rights'

Is this really a deal-breaker for the UK with the EU in a trade deal?

More than half of the value of English quota (55% in 2019) is foreign-owned: Spain, Iceland and The Netherlands. 

And as fishing is a 'devolved policy', the way the quota is managed differs around the UK. Scotland is responsible for about 60% of the UK quota. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/52420116

 

It seems Boris is appealing to British pride and not to the reality of the current fishing quota arrangements.

 

 

 

[3NUMBAS]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1348120/Brexit-latest-news-Nigel-Farage-fisheries-Emmanuel-Macron-France-fishing-vn

 

french violent already

[3NUMBAS]

like adolph said to poland ..you must give us ground .all of it

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Patts said:

Well I asked you to explain it to me and after a couple of hours you haven't! I am a business owner who manufactures electronics and exports all over the world so thanks for your assumption! 

Then you should know that your statement was nonsense. Or, if you don’t, I hope your business never comes into a situation where you’re considering to screw your biggest customer who brings you half of your revenues by explaining him that he needs you more than you him because he sells more to you than the other way round. 

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, Patts said:

We don't need access to the internal market, the UK buys considerably more from the EU than they do from the UK. If the EU don't won't to allow us access to the internal market then it is they who will lose.

 

"The EU, taken as a whole is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2019, UK exports to the EU were £300 billion (43% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £372 billion (51% of all UK imports)".

 

Why should the UK be held to ransom when we are at a £72 billion annual deficit and give the French and Dutch access to our already over fished waters!? 

You forget about WHICH products. The EU imports from the UK can sa0moly be replaced, the problem is the British imports from the EU, which cannot be replaced so easily.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Breaking:

EU tells Boris to give ground. Boris says No.

 

Just as I predicted: Boris is backpedaling and kicking the can down the road again. The negotiations continue. Wouldn’t be surprised if there will be some sort of extension again. An “implementation period” or however they wanna call it. 
 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[Chomper Higgot]

11 hours ago, John Drake said:

Seems to me as an outsider that France wants to control British territory and Germany wants to control British tax and corporate policy. Essentially, Britain will be a colony of the EU, with its laws and resources controlled by the EU while the British don't even get a vote or say in the matter.

In the face of US objections the uK did an abrubt U-turn on plans to tax online transactions.

 

Pause for a moment while you figure out who is dictating U.K. tax and corporate policies. 

[Patts]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Then you should know that your statement was nonsense. Or, if you don’t, I hope your business never comes into a situation where you’re considering to screw your biggest customer who brings you half of your revenues by explaining him that he needs you more than you him because he sells more to you than the other way round. 

The UK are not "screwing" their partner, we are simply asking for a fair break from the EU. The EU still want access to fisheries  that they have dominated for years with the use of huge industrial trawlers is not fair, equal or acceptable. The EU are currently our biggest trading partner but things have to change and as shown here it is never a good idea to rely so heavily on a single customer. 

 

The UK needs to increase it's manufacturing and exports to other wealthy countries

Edited October 16, 2020 by Patts

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, pixelaoffy said:

Dont know where to start with that pile of nonsensical junk !

Because you don’t have an answer?!

[Patts]

2 hours ago, 2 is 1 said:

So you dont understand deal between WTO rules or like EU deal before!? I dont know what you sell , maybe Durasell bunny!? WTO rules is like "dont have rules" and that means every coundry can deside them self! If UK get out whitout deal whit EU , you can see place like Kent is place where is nothing else that truck to waiting on line! I dont know how much export from UK go to EU coundry's but they have own deal between eatch other. Anyway Eu is 6 times more big than UK in economy way! So if small want deal whit bigger i think you know how it goes! If you are "Duracell bunny" factory man!

I'm sorry but what you say is completely incorrect. You may want to visit the World Trade Organisation Website and have a read:

 

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/thewto_e.htm

 

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/tradfa_e/tradfa_e.htm

Edited October 16, 2020 by Patts

[daejung]

6 hours ago, Patts said:

"The EU, taken as a whole is the UK's largest trading partner. In 2019, UK exports to the EU were £300 billion (43% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £372 billion (51% of all UK imports)".

 

 

But exports from UE to UK are less than 5% of all EU exports vs 43% from UK to EU

[RayC]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

like adolph said to poland ..you must give us ground .all of it

Distasteful and misplaced attempt at a simile.

[evadgib]

Boris is going live in 30 mins

[Patts]

13 minutes ago, daejung said:

But exports from UE to UK are less than 5% of all EU exports vs 43% from UK to EU

Nope.....

 

You might want to read this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46612362

 

and short version here: "When we look at the share of the EU's exports going to the UK there is a choice to make about whether to include trade among the remaining 27 EU countries in total goods exports. If we do include it, the UK share is 6.2%; if we don't it's 18% of the total"

[RayC]

6 minutes ago, Patts said:

Nope.....

 

You might want to read this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46612362

 

and short version here: "When we look at the share of the EU's exports going to the UK there is a choice to make about whether to include trade among the remaining 27 EU countries in total goods exports. If we do include it, the UK share is 6.2%; if we don't it's 18% of the total"

Whatever figures are used, I don't see how reverting to WTO rules is in either the UK's or EU's interest.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Patts said:

Nope.....

 

You might want to read this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46612362

 

and short version here: "When we look at the share of the EU's exports going to the UK there is a choice to make about whether to include trade among the remaining 27 EU countries in total goods exports. If we do include it, the UK share is 6.2%; if we don't it's 18% of the total"

Yeah, and if we exclude trade with other countries from the UK, the EU is your one and only market. I’m really wondering how your business has been able to survive given your lack of analytical skills. Anyway, thanks for your comment — I will add it to my list of favorite Brexiteer quotes, just next to “they need us more than we need them because there’s a trade deficit.” 

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

  7 hours ago, pixelaoffy said:

Dont know where to start with that pile of nonsensical junk !

 

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because you don’t have an answer?!

Exactly, I thought it was explained in the simplest of terms. Never simple enough for a Brexiteer it appears.

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Yeah, and if we exclude trade with other countries from the UK, the EU is your one and only market. I’m really wondering how your business has been able to survive given your lack of analytical skills. Anyway, thanks for your comment — I will add it to my list of favorite Brexiteer quotes, just next to “they need us more than we need them because there’s a trade deficit.” 

Yes it's a great quote, and illustrates perfectly how focussing on one minor issue can make you incapable of seeing the broader picture. 

 

However we are wasting our time, Brexit has become a religion with sacred beliefs, such as the transubstantiation of the flesh! We are dealing with fundamentalists here, many of them on TV it appears. People who believe that Islam justifies sacrifice for Allah, are the same type as those who believe that Brexit justifies failing to get a trade deal, and defaulting to an economy destroying hard Brexit. 

 

Who wins from a UK economy ruined by Brexit and Covid? Well...... London is already one of the biggest tax avoidance capital cities in the world, that should give us a start.

 

 Boris is no idealist, he never really cared about Brexit one way or the other, he is a careerist, the question remains who is going to line his pockets? 

 

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

On 10/16/2020 at 9:47 AM, John Drake said:

Seems to me as an outsider that France wants to control British territory and Germany wants to control British tax and corporate policy. Essentially, Britain will be a colony of the EU, with its laws and resources controlled by the EU while the British don't even get a vote or say in the matter.

 

Spot in summary mate.

 

Marcron is terrified of the powerful French fishermen lobby and their farmer allies. He knows being seen to be weak on this means big future election issues for him and his party. So of course, he sees his career and French fishermen as the center of the universe.

 

Germany is terrified of being unable to compete on a really level playing field and therefore wants to dictate to Britain and British businesses. Germany's once protected economy, rebuilt by the allies after WW11, is starting to stall and splutter. And, remember, Germany bankrolls the EU. The French can't, never have and never will be able. That's why both France and Germany want ever closer union - so they can strengthen their grip and control.

 

Britain currently, is in no mood to cave in to demands that they, and they alone, must give way, roll over and be shafted. 

 

Gonna get nasty. French fishermen have already said they'll take action to disrupt the ports if they can't have their own way. 

 

Interesting to see how "unified" the other EU states remain if the only final sticking point is greedy French fishermen.

[Baerboxer]

11 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Yes it's a great quote, and illustrates perfectly how focussing on one minor issue can make you incapable of seeing the broader picture. 

 

However we are wasting our time, Brexit has become a religion with sacred beliefs, such as the transubstantiation of the flesh! We are dealing with fundamentalists here, many of them on TV it appears. People who believe that Islam justifies sacrifice for Allah, are the same type as those who believe that Brexit justifies failing to get a trade deal, and defaulting to an economy destroying hard Brexit. 

 

Who wins from a UK economy ruined by Brexit and Covid? Well...... London is already one of the biggest tax avoidance capital cities in the world, that should give us a start.

 

 Boris is no idealist, he never really cared about Brexit one way or the other, he is a careerist, the question remains who is going to line his pockets? 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Macron, the ex-banker (with a b not a w) is just like Boris. Both careerists, and both having their pockets lined; egotistical entitled elitists too.

 

Merkel, isn't. And I'd wager she'd love to see this sorted much more amicably as part of her swansong. 

 

As for the other leaders - whatever, as they ain't important. France and Germany clearly call the shots. 

 

Looking more and more like a nasty no deal with huge resentment and silly behavior - all because greedy French fishermen refuse to change.

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I think Macron, the ex-banker (with a b not a w) is just like Boris. Both careerists, and both having their pockets lined; egotistical entitled elitists too.

Merkel, isn't. And I'd wager she'd love to see this sorted much more amicably as part of her swansong. 

 

As for the other leaders - whatever, as they ain't important. France and Germany clearly call the shots. 

 

Looking more and more like a nasty no deal with huge resentment and silly behavior - all because greedy French fishermen refuse to change.

I think Macron, the ex-banker (with a b not a w) is just like Boris. Both careerists, and both having their pockets lined; egotistical entitled elitists too.............  Agreed

Merkel, isn't. And I'd wager she'd love to see this sorted much more amicably as part of her swansong.  ....Yes.

Merkel is a real leader IMHO, she wants common sense compromise, but she won't give in to Boris's sad posturing, she knows where the money and power really lie.

 

As for the other leaders - whatever, as they ain't important. France and Germany clearly call the shots. .....Hmmm, I'm sure Nederlands, Spain and Italy have a strong say that we don't see so obviously. Italy's manufacturing overtook ours quite a while back so I read.

 

Looking more and more like a nasty no deal with huge resentment and silly behavior - all because greedy French fishermen refuse to change......Someone needs to brutally smash Boris's and Macron's heads together till we get a compromise. If the UK lose big amounts of financial services for a few fish we are bleeding idiots, and need a lesson in primary school maths. 

[Patts]

20 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Yeah, and if we exclude trade with other countries from the UK, the EU is your one and only market. I’m really wondering how your business has been able to survive given your lack of analytical skills. Anyway, thanks for your comment — I will add it to my list of favorite Brexiteer quotes, just next to “they need us more than we need them because there’s a trade deficit.” 

It's not my comment, it's a quote taken directly from the BBC, again you make a completely incorrect assumption and make yourself look like a fool!

 

Written by:

By Andrew Walker
BBC World Service economics correspondent

Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46612362#:~:text=When we look at the,of the EU 27 GDP.

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Patts

[Patts]

21 hours ago, RayC said:

Whatever figures are used, I don't see how reverting to WTO rules is in either the UK's or EU's interest.

It's not but this is the road we have been forced to take due to a lack of flexibility by certain EU countries (not excluding the UK). WTO terms are not ideal but at least it allows us to trade with the EU. 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Patts