Jump to content

SURVEY: Digital Nomads--Good for Thailand or not?


Scott

SURVEY: Digital Nomads--Good for Thailand or not?  

197 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

Nah thailand needs to forget the tax element and just look at pulling in 500k long stay nomads. Make them commit to thailand for long stay by:

 

Granting initial 90 day Visa on arrival for working holiday.

Insist all business be conducted from Thailand to other countries

Show proof of support - $10,000

To get an additional 12 months visa must have:

 

Rental contract for accommodation.

 

A serious nomad is not a travelling one, they need routine like all workers, they need comfort. The serious nomads will buy into all of the above and the ones that cannot commit you do not need.

 

But this tax thing is a non starter.

 

Just get 500k nomads in as above and you just created an equivalent of 20m tourists in terms of local spending. Hotels lose out, local thais cash in.

 

will never happen

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those who need a work permit (meaning their income is sourced from Thailand) are not "digital nomads", they can register BOI-approved company and get a Non-B visa. Giving WPs to sole proprietors would conflict with the idea of "foreigners taking jobs from Thais".

 

For everyone else (foreign company owners) there's already a kind of "digital nomad visa" called Thailand Elite. You pay one time, and the government leaves you alone for 5-20 years (you can view it as a lump-sum tax). The cost is comparable to Non-ED visa and cheaper than Non-B+WP.

 

I think the government made it clear they don't want "cheapskates" extending every 3 months, they only need those who have 800k THB or more in the bank.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

I've been speaking to the folks at SMART visa, BOI. They will be introducing a freelancer visa which does not require a WP. Details should be released next month.

I'd guess that's the 1M$ elite wp thing. BOI seems to be battling upstream with it's initiatives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

I'd guess that's the 1M$ elite wp thing. BOI seems to be battling upstream with it's initiatives.

No, that's the ill concieved Thai Elite Visa - if you've got 1 million USD why do you need a work permit in Thailand? For a 35 k teaching job? LOL!!

This is the SMART visa from the Board Of Investment (BOI). I was emailing them last month about potential visas for remote workers/freelancers after reading the news report on 'The Nation.' There will be a scientific and technology freelancer visa.

I don't know if there will be other types, they were emailing me about my specific situation. They will require proof that you are an expert in either of these fields (such as a degree) and financial proof that you can support yourself (there was no mention of how much).

They said the final details should go to the cabinet for approval early next month. So look out for details on their website:

https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/smart/

The best thing is that you no longer have to deal with immigration. No more 90 day reports, no need for work permits, no re-entry permit required, visa may have several years (4 years for the SMART T visa), you can use the THAI only lanes at airports and fast track lanes, and your visa is done in BKK. Lot's of benefits!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

No, that's the ill concieved Thai Elite Visa - if you've got 1 million USD why do you need a work permit in Thailand? For a 35 k teaching job? LOL!!

This is the SMART visa from the Board Of Investment (BOI). I was emailing them last month about potential visas for remote workers/freelancers after reading the news report on 'The Nation.' There will be a scientific and technology freelancer visa.

I don't know if there will be other types, they were emailing me about my specific situation. They will require proof that you are an expert in either of these fields (such as a degree) and financial proof that you can support yourself (there was no mention of how much).

They said the final details should go to the cabinet for approval early next month. So look out for details on their website:

https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/smart/

The best thing is that you no longer have to deal with immigration. No more 90 day reports, no need for work permits, no re-entry permit required, visa may have several years (4 years for the SMART T visa), you can use the THAI only lanes at airports and fast track lanes, and your visa is done in BKK. Lot's of benefits!

I'll believe it when I see it. Usual MO is to water it down with some ridicilous bureaucracy and requirements. Weren't many takers for the last SMART visa IIRC.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Guess who created companies like Lazada, foodpanda etc here (rocket internet = german)....

 

 

If you think these kind of people don't add economic value here you are nuts.

But are they digital nomads Thomas?

 

They were business people who had Thai companies and partnerships no? Or contractors who worked for them?

 

 

I may be wrong, I am thinking about this and I don't really know what a digital nomad is, how is it separate from other things? I guess just as they probably stereotype me as retiree being some old poor codger in a singlet, drinking chang from a can outside a 7 eleven in patts with a naughty on my arm and complaining about the cost of everything and telling everyone that it was tougher in my day. I am probably, worsly,  sterotyping them as all as someone who bought a camera and ticket to Thailand with a plan to change the world by becoming a Youtuber and calling that a profession.

 

What is a digital nomad?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MRToMRT said:

But are they digital nomads Thomas?

 

They were business people who had Thai companies and partnerships no? Or contractors who worked for them?

 

 

I may be wrong, I am thinking about this and I don't really know what a digital nomad is, how is it separate from other things? I guess just as they probably stereotype me as retiree being some old poor codger in a singlet, drinking chang from a can outside a 7 eleven in patts with a naughty on my arm and complaining about the cost of everything and telling everyone that it was tougher in my day. I am probably, worsly,  sterotyping them as all as someone who bought a camera and ticket to Thailand with a plan to change the world by becoming a Youtuber and calling that a profession.

 

What is a digital nomad?

 

 

Digital nomads are people who work remotely online and can work from anywhere in the world.

They may be those 'youtubers' who call themselves 'influencers' (personally i call them ads - that's what they are after all; living, breathing adverts who do nothing to benefit society)

But they may also be working professionals/self employed people like myself who have a real job. Remote workers/digital nomads tend to be lumped together.

Edited by 2530Ubon
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, redpill17 said:

Those who need a work permit (meaning their income is sourced from Thailand) are not "digital nomads", they can register BOI-approved company and get a Non-B visa. Giving WPs to sole proprietors would conflict with the idea of "foreigners taking jobs from Thais".

Don't want to start a company and employ people I don't want or need just to get a work permit. I can get work from overseas, so wouldnt be taking anyones job. Also, I am on a marriage visa, so eligible for a work permit if I want to go back to a Thai company, which I don't.

Edited by CraigInBangkok
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

But are they digital nomads Thomas?

 

They were business people who had Thai companies and partnerships no? Or contractors who worked for them?

 

 

I may be wrong, I am thinking about this and I don't really know what a digital nomad is, how is it separate from other things? I guess just as they probably stereotype me as retiree being some old poor codger in a singlet, drinking chang from a can outside a 7 eleven in patts with a naughty on my arm and complaining about the cost of everything and telling everyone that it was tougher in my day. I am probably, worsly,  sterotyping them as all as someone who bought a camera and ticket to Thailand with a plan to change the world by becoming a Youtuber and calling that a profession.

 

What is a digital nomad?

 

 

yeah if you take it literal you are totally right, they are simply startups, freelancer, self employed workers, remote workers... digital nomad is pretty much just a marketing term these days. However there's no visa for these types available that makes sense. BOI approvals are very limited and the investment is too much for normal people, there's also tons of sectors blocked where you aren't able to get a BOI anymore (like hotels business). 

 

If they would just get rid of the foreigner business rules that you can't own a simple limited company as a sole majority shareholder and that you have to hire random thais to get a work permit, that would already fix all these issues.

As long as the limited pays enough taxes, why does it matter if there's a majority thai shareholder...

 

Most startups go where it's easy to setup, and that isn't Thailand.

 

Setting up my Singapore or UAE (DUBAI) company was cheaper than the same would have been in Thailand - and so much more legitimate... 

In Dubai an FDIC approved company costs 12k per year (office fees) but then again this doesn't sound like little extra cost - but it comes with a temporary residence that can turn into a permanent residency, you are the full owner etc.

Edited by ThomasThBKK
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/19/2020 at 3:20 AM, hobz said:

I'm kind of a digital nomad. I got work permit and pay tax on thailand.

I think you are likely the odd exception. They should be put in the same barrel as backpackers and English teachers. Thailand should concentrate on retirees of some substance like moi. We spend money freely and won't be around forever 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Is this even a question? DNs create jobs in Thailand - either by spending and consumption, or directly by hiring - it's a win-win for Thailand either way.

But doesn't everyone? 

Edited by MRToMRT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/19/2020 at 9:28 AM, ukrules said:

They are an irrelevance.

Then or you are very old, or you have lost contact with reality. With all respect. But the group of people that make there money online is growing rapidly. Embrace them because they will be a big part of the future ecomomy. If they want to stay in Thailnad, let them pay a realistic amount for a working visa. You couls see that as a kind of tax.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it strange anyone could be against digital nomads and yet the poll shows 1/3rd are against them. Who cares if they don't pay taxes, DN's draw in money from other countries doing legal work and spend it in Thailand. Compare that to an English teacher who makes money off Thai's and it gets taxed and spent--not as good. And far better than $0 tourists or skint retirees. DN's are best for Thailand because loads of new money pours into the hands of people that need it and it happens without taking anyone's job. Free money, no downside.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, canopy said:

I find it strange anyone could be against digital nomads and yet the poll shows 1/3rd are against them. Who cares if they don't pay taxes, DN's draw in money from other countries doing legal work and spend it in Thailand. Compare that to an English teacher who makes money off Thai's and it gets taxed and spent--not as good. And far better than $0 tourists or skint retirees. DN's are best for Thailand because loads of new money pours into the hands of people that need it and it happens without taking anyone's job. Free money, no downside.

 

"Free money, no downside", you mean for the digital nomad? I would agree with that. 

 

Every time there is money extracted from a market, the money is gone for others. Think of the Amazon's of the world.

 

There are legit Thai bloggers, and these nomads unlawfully steal income from them. Seems a big downside to me, among many others. 

 

What I would do if I was Thailand is flag the largest vloggers with mug shots at airports and entry points. You can't enforce at a small level. You make sure they understand that their multimillion view content created in Thailand requires the appropriate work permit. 

Edited by sucit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, sucit said:

"Free money, no downside", you mean for the digital nomad? I would agree with that. 

 

Every time there is money extracted from a market, the money is gone for others. Think of the Amazon's of the world.

 

There are legit Thai bloggers, and these nomads unlawfully steal income from them. Seems a big downside to me, among many others. 

 

What I would do if I was Thailand is flag the largest vloggers with mug shots at airports and entry points. You can't enforce at a small level. You make sure they understand that their multimillion view content created in Thailand requires the appropriate work permit. 

Bloggers/vloggers/youtubers/adverts(influencers)/backpackers etc drinking expensive coffee around cafe's are a very visible minority. The vast majority of remote workers/digital nomads (2 often conflated terms) are working professionals, we just have the luxury of not being tied down to a specific workplace. I, for example, consult for American IT companies online. Easy for me to live and work anywhere with a decent internet connection.

 

All my USD have to be transferred to my Thai bank account, so it's a continual supply of fresh USD to the Thai current account surplus, and there's a lot of THB cash spent here every month. Unless those Thai's are eligible to work in the US, speak English fluently and have expertise and qualifications for scientific and technical roles in IT, then i'm not taking a job from a Thai.

 

Isn't that similar to a retiree? There are no jobs taken from Thai's and there's a lot of free cash getting injected into the economy. Most of us are insured, or we have insurance from employers. The only difference is we might live a bit longer than them!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, canopy said:

I find it strange anyone could be against digital nomads and yet the poll shows 1/3rd are against them. 

There's a saying in my native Finland: "Envy takes even the fish from the water". As long as nobody else can have anything, those that got nothing are happy. Socialism is great.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apart from the question being poorly worded, it is also the wrong question to ask.

 

Most digital nomads contribute nothing to the local economy, do not lead to job creation etc. - 

so no, not good for Thailand in that regard.


The more important question to ask is whether Thailand is suitable/good for digital nomads.

In the current climate, also no, largely due to the ridiculous visa requirements in place.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i see a different side to this question.if i was a dig nomad why would i wish to nomad here in comparison to other places where the welcome mat is out?what has this place to offer that many others dont?a myriad of BS thats for sure an unwelcoming snarl and a look at the inner workings of your whole life,think ill pass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/19/2020 at 2:43 PM, LNKDES1 said:

True, but the number of retired expats unable to return should be a greater priority. They would spend much more money than the nomads, as their numbers would be far higher. 

One is not exclusive of the other.  Two different topics.

But agree expats should be addressed BEFORE them letting in special new tourists as they are now.

Edited by Dart12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, varun said:

Most digital nomads contribute nothing to the local economy, do not lead to job creation etc. - 

so no, not good for Thailand in that regard.

That could change if they were allowed to start as one-man-bands. Some could lead to start-ups, then incubators, then to lucrative businesses hiring Thais. It's a real opportunity to bring some entrepeneurship into the country. Look at Singapore and the start-up scene there (although lately the Singapore Core has put a damper on that).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are Digital Nomads?

 

Well, first of all, "digital" in this context means, that everything can be and is done via the Internet. In more detail, it would mean, whatever revenue is created, it is by commute to work by starting up a pc/laptop/phone. I guess everybody has an understanding of that

 

Nomads is a very archaic word and it described people who followed the prey wherever it went and in fact, people, without a fixed and static home. Nowadays, the word can be more widely used, f. ex. you could call anybody who works/live out of their country for a period of time a nomad. There are seasonal workers from Thailand who follow the work around the world and end up in Norway on farms and in Dubai on scaffolds. These are more modern nomads.

 

So, you have your digital nomad. Everything described above fits them and additional to that, they are mostly very good educated, in a younger age bracket (20-35) and I would attest them higher self-confidence as they are much more independent in their choice of work (and foremost workplace) and if they succeed, they succeed because of their own skill and that gives you an extreme boost. Many of them are earning more than the average wage in the USA and probably to same degree in EU. Of course there are those who barely make ends meet, but that is somehow how capitalism works, we all fight, with different odds based on many factors, for the same cake. Not everybody can be that guy who flies to the moon.

 

If you are reading about the topic, check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler - I think "PT" is basically the origin of the digital nomad and it is a fantastic way, of doing things, even though you get the hate from people who were/are bound to the location of their workplace.

 

Why would it be good to have them in a country?

 

Well, the same question would apply to any human, who is not in their country of origin right now. If we think from a nationalist point of view, we could agree, that we can generalize those "outsiders" as one group and say that they shouldn't be in our country. But let's not dive into that topic. What specifically applies to digital nomads is, that they are able to support themselves, creating additional income within the economy, creating a positive image of the country they are in, attracting more digital nomads, create a basis for exchange of knowledge, they are generally not staying in that country forever, and still they might even become stationary and as they are those type of personalities who takes more risk, create local businesses who in fact hire local citizens.

 

So, to summarize it. Digital nomads are absolutely a good thing for every country and if you regulate it with f. ex. easy access visas with low requirements and low bureaucracy you can call your country a country who has adapted to a changing world. Thailand is not one of them.

 

 

Edited by DigitalGutenberg
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, DrTuner said:

That could change if they were allowed to start as one-man-bands. Some could lead to start-ups, then incubators, then to lucrative businesses hiring Thais. It's a real opportunity to bring some entrepeneurship into the country. Look at Singapore and the start-up scene there (although lately the Singapore Core has put a damper on that).

Well, there already is a path in place for that via BOI

At the end of the day, it's all about the money, however you slice it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.





×
×
  • Create New...