Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah first past the post.

Fantastic democratic system of voting that is. 

In Hollyrood we have a far better system which means you have to actually get over 50% of the votes to get even a small majority.

Great, Scotland voted to remain in the United Kingdom.....

52% voted for Brexit, you should be happy about it was 52%........

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah first past the post.

Fantastic democratic system of voting that is. 

In Hollyrood we have a far better system which means you have to actually get over 50% of the votes to get even a small majority.

2/3rds of the Scottish electorate did not vote for the SNP, in the 2019 Scottish General Election the SNP amassed 45%.

 

[Tofer]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And we will have another one.

Looking forward to it or does the fear of losing mean you will simply try to refuse to allow one?

I think it would be a sad day, if / when the Scots leave the UK. However, I won't lose a minutes sleep over it personally, although I guess a lot of Scots will have a tight sphincter in the aftermath.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

You are correct about the feeling of the people on 12 December 2019.

I have no idea what it is actually, 10 months later.

Neither what it will be, lets say in June 2021, 6 months after 31 December 2020.

 

London, 1940, my mum watched a speech by Winston Churchill, he said.

  "Are we downhearted", mum shouted out..."Yes we bloody well are"...

Now I can assure you, she was dancing in the streets in 1945....

 

I hope you can see the connection.....????

[Tofer]

11 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah first past the post.

Fantastic democratic system of voting that is. 

In Hollyrood we have a far better system which means you have to actually get over 50% of the votes to get even a small majority.

And look where it got you..... A power monger!

[Tofer]

7 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

You are correct about the feeling of the people on 12 December 2019.

I have no idea what it is actually, 10 months later.

Neither what it will be, lets say in June 2021, 6 months after 31 December 2020.

 

What.. You don't have a crystal ball, like the rest of the remainers!

[luckyluke]

10 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Ah, but you're missing the whole point. It will be OUR right, OUR price and OUR conditions - not the EU's 

Of course your price, your conditions... 

Doesn't change the fact that it is " For sale ".

But I want to make it clear that it is not my intention to claim that such way of doing is proper to the U.K. alone.

It is my conviction that every nation handle similarly. 

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

London, 1940, my mum watched a speech by Winston Churchill, he said.

  "Are we downhearted", mum shouted out..."Yes we bloody well are"...

Now I can assure you, she was dancing in the streets in 1945....

 

I hope you can see the connection.....????

No, sorry.

I try to explain that people's opinion is constantly related to actual situations.

So what can be considered as a certitude today is not necessary the case in x months.

This is for every situation, who knows if the Hard Remainers of today won't be hard followers of Mr. Jonhson in x months due to new facts.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

please read again my previous post on Canada: the short negotiation format imposed by the UK makes a Canada deal impossible. The CETA started 2004 ended in 2010

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement

 

To kickoff a Canada FTA the UK negotiation team would need to pragmatically set up the timeframe and DO IT 

 

another issue : to negotiate such a deal you need a big competent team of experts, and sadly these competences are not here.

 

You all remember the opening of the negotiations. The UE team arrives after extensive preparation and ready, while the UK team arrives with a big smile having done nothing

 

I guess the UK will go on complaining about it, but there can be no Canada deal, whatever Boris Johnson wants you to believe.

 

 

This photo was a pathetic attempt at a set up, probably assisted by our Ugly Robbins (stupid grin at back right).

 

The sequencing for each 'phase' of all negotiations were insisted on by the EU and, unfortunately, accepted by our useless remainer PM May. This sequencing was the EU preference - no trade deal talks were allowed until the WA and PD were done - this is one reason why there is little time left now. After all the extensions +++ there is still no closure. All could have been done but that would have required negotiations on all aspects of the withdrawal and possible options for these, simultaneously, accompanied by both the fairness and goodwill that the EU like to be seen to promote in their treaties.

 

Unfortunately the EU has wasted time by concentrating on delays more than progress, obviously hoping that the UK would ask to reverse Article 50. Now that point has passed and cannot be easily fixed (Lisbon Treaty), the fault lines within the EU have become exposed with internal disagreement due to individual (national) priorities. The emergence of a trade agreement may rely not on the only the stance of the UK but also an agreement between France and Germany. 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by nauseus
+ have

[CG1 Blue]

8 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 

There is a thin line between being determined, and being stubborn. 

 

 

Generally being determined is having the willingness to change as needed. 

 

Being stubborn is a categorical refuse to budge whatever the outcome will be. 

 

Will see. 

 

 

 

Being determined is having the willingness to change as needed - agree 100%

 

But if Boris and co are willing to change something on Brexit we get that faux outrage from remainers, screaming "U-turn!". 

[nauseus]

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

2/3rds of the Scottish electorate did not vote for the SNP, in the 2019 Scottish General Election the SNP amassed 45%.

 

I couldn't stop playing this! ????

[luckyluke]

12 minutes ago, Tofer said:

What.. You don't have a crystal ball, like the rest of the remainers!

I am not a Remainer.

 

But seeing that the outcome was 52/48, in my opinion a simple majority wasn't a good idea, but I respect the results.

However I have problems with the attitude of some of the winners.

Stating "Vae victis",  is according to me not the right attitude in a 52/48 result.

 

[melvinmelvin]

16 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

I am not a Remainer.

 

But seeing that the outcome was 52/48, in my opinion a simple majority wasn't a good idea, but I respect the results.

However I have problems with the attitude of some of the winners.

Stating "Vae victis",  is according to me not the right attitude in a 52/48 result.

 

 

many are those who complain about the simple majority

fair enough, but

 

since the end of WW2; how many referenda, with a qualified majority requirement upfront,

have been arranged in Europe?

 

not sure but my gut feeling is that such are very few and very far between

when the plebs are asked what they fancy the normal fare is no requirments for

a qualified majority (2/3 3/4 or whatever) in order to tip the scale

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

please read again my previous post on Canada: the short negotiation format imposed by the UK makes a Canada deal impossible. The CETA started 2004 ended in 2010

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement

You need to stop bending the truth on the Canada subject. In 2017 the EU said a Canada style deal is on offer (in the so called 'Barnier slides') . In Feb 2020 Barnier told us that a Canada style deal is not available. (The EU are allowed to make u-turns? ????)

And Barnier didn't say a Canada deal is not available because the UK hasn't given them enough time. He said it's not available because the UK would be too much of a threat as a competitor (paraphrasing). 

 

 

[david555]

1 hour ago, transam said:

London, 1940, my mum watched a speech by Winston Churchill, he said.

  "Are we downhearted", mum shouted out..."Yes we bloody well are"...

Now I can assure you, she was dancing in the streets in 1945....

 

I hope you can see the connection.....????

"War syndrome" definitly.....????...????

 

 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, david555 said:

Freedom feeling is not detererminated by others than those involved....i feel very good to be in the E.U.

I imagine most Belgians feel good about the EU. I mean, the EU has really put Belgium on the map. 

I wonder if you would feel the same if the EU headquarters were in London. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by CG1 Blue

[transam]

19 minutes ago, david555 said:

"War syndrome" definitly.....????...????

 

 

 

 

Yes it was, she was bombed out of two houses in London's East End, very lucky........????

[luckyluke]

28 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

since the end of WW2; how many referenda, with a qualified majority requirement upfront,

have been arranged in Europe?

I am 72, I have no knowledge of any referendum in Belgium. I think it is the law in Switzerland.

A political election with a simple majority is fair enough, every x years the voters can change their mind if they wish to.

With Brexit, it is different, everything is possible of course, but I don't see a new referendum happening.

But it is what it is.

However with such a result, the British government will have a difficult task next year :

convince the 52% that they made the right choice

convince the 48% that they made the wrong choice.

Completely ignoring nearly the 1/2 of the voting population doesn't seems a good idea to me.

Therefore I think, that early 2021, concrete visible measures has to been taken, measures that benefit everyone.

[david555]

17 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I imagine most Belgians feel good about the EU. I mean, the EU has really put Belgium on the map. 

I wonder if you would feel the same if the EU headquarters were in London. 

We would go for BExit...????????????

 

BTW: we together with The Netherlands & Luxemburg where the origin of present E.U. by making Benelux ...and the big neigbours say it was very good and expanded it into E.E.C. and further on to the present E.U. organisation ....

Edited October 20, 2020 by david555

[david555]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

Yes it was, she was bombed out of two houses in London's East End, very lucky........????

Very good twist ...you got better in it ...????

Sorry i did refer to YOU about your ww2 Syndrome by continuous refering to it ...., not to your mum ....

[luckyluke]

transam, what so funny about above post?

Are you really one of those who use the Haha & Confused emoticon to annoy people.

 

If yes, you succeeded because it annoys me.

I am not only old, but also old school.

Old school means for me : the time there was respect for values.

One I always remember : you don't mock your opponent.

 

[transam]

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

Very good twist ...you got better in it ...????

Sorry i did refer to YOU about your ww2 Syndrome by continuous refering to it ...., not to your mum ....

Then be clearer......????

[CG1 Blue]

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

We would go for BExit...????????????

 

BTW: we together with The Netherlands & Luxemburg where the origin of present E.U. by making Benelux ...and the big neigbours say it was very good and expanded it into E.E.C. and further on to the present E.U. organisation ....

And the E.E.C. wasn't a bad idea. It's a shame those running it got greedy for more power. The middle 'E' for Economic was gradually phased out as it morphed into a political organisation. 

[david555]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Then be clearer......????

It was clear enough ...only you sprayed some English fogg in it by trying to let people think i refered to your mum ????......what is a nasty thing to do ..., not to me... , but to your mum !

 

 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

transam, what so funny about above post?

Are you really one of those who use the Haha & Confused emoticon to annoy people.

 

If yes, you succeeded because it annoys me.

I am not only old, but also old school.

Old school means for me : the time there was respect for values.

One I always remember : you don't mock your opponent.

 

Your last sentence, words were not required, a smile was....

 

You really have lost me there, old school, but no ploblem, and I am now in my eighth decade, and folk always post emijons on my posts, all sorts, doesn't bother me at all, part and parcel of participating... Anyhoooo, off up the pub now......????............????

[david555]

5 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

And the E.E.C. wasn't a bad idea. It's a shame those running it got greedy for more power. The middle 'E' for Economic was gradually phased out as it morphed into a political organisation. 

And now somebody named Boris used it to his advantage in politic way to get where he sit now ....and next year he shall resign with one or other excuse reason as he can not handle present mess ...,so what about the brexit outcome next year ...how he go handlle that ..

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

and folk always post emijons on my posts, all sorts, doesn't bother me at all

It is obvious we are different.

 

But now you know that the use of some emoticons just for the purpose of being disagreeable, annoys me.

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

transam, what so funny about above post?

Are you really one of those who use the Haha & Confused emoticon to annoy people.

 

If yes, you succeeded because it annoys me.

I am not only old, but also old school.

Old school means for me : the time there was respect for values.

One I always remember : you don't mock your opponent.

 

You should tell that to your EU ill-mannered "leadership", like Tusk and your EU pinup boy Verhofstadt.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

You need to stop bending the truth on the Canada subject. In 2017 the EU said a Canada style deal is on offer (in the so called 'Barnier slides') . In Feb 2020 Barnier told us that a Canada style deal is not available. (The EU are allowed to make u-turns? ????)

And Barnier didn't say a Canada deal is not available because the UK hasn't given them enough time. He said it's not available because the UK would be too much of a threat as a competitor (paraphrasing). 

 

 

Ceta does not cover financial services. It was never what the UK wanted.

What we heard about during the referendum was Brexiteers claiming we would get Norway + or Switzerland +. They went to great lengths to claim we would be staying in the single market.

At no point did we hear anyone from the Brexit campaign say we would get no deal. If they had then no way would Brexit have won.

So if you want to talk about U turns how about we address that one first.

 

Also it is not and never will be the job of the EU to deliver the lies and promises made by the Brexit campaign. 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Ceta does not cover financial services. It was never what the UK wanted.

What we heard about during the referendum was Brexiteers claiming we would get Norway + or Switzerland +. They went to great lengths to claim we would be staying in the single market.

At no point did we hear anyone from the Brexit campaign say we would get no deal. If they had then no way would Brexit have won.

So if you want to talk about U turns how about we address that one first.

 

Also it is not and never will be the job of the EU to deliver the lies and promises made by the Brexit campaign.