Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Vogie, this is again the same mantra you proclaim :

Everything is the fault of the others.

As mention before : fair, realistic, unacceptable,  are relative concepts and thus differently interpretable by each of us in particular.

One can come on and on with what he consider as fair, but on and on been rejected as unacceptable by the other party, which than will claim : the others always come with unacceptable propositions to us.

I don't know the concrete details of the negotiations, so can not express my opinion about it.

But out of experience, being confronted businessly  with negotiations, I dare to say that it is never one party which is to blame.

Only in the opinion/mind of radicals.

To be 'fair' I would treat all parties the same, in reality the UK has paid probably billions upon billions into the coffers of the EU and Canada hasn't paid a penny, so who are you going to be fair with, I'll leave that there for you to figure.

It's like having two children, one lives with you and the other one lives with his mother 5 miles down the road, and just because the one that lives with his mother is further away doesn't mean that he should get more spending money now does it, because that would be unfair.

The EU cannot possibly treat the UK fairly or else other nations might get ideas above their status and decide to leave and that wouldn't do at all now would it.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

But these are trade talks, we wish to buy and sell to the EU and vice versa, how simple is that. The complications set in when each of the 27 nations that makes up the EU are pulling in different directions, they cannot decide between themselves the best way to procede with these talks. 

They are not used to someone like Boris saying 'no', the last four years has been a total waste of time, we all knew that you cannot negotiate with an organisation like the EU, the sooner we walk the better and Macron will go down in history as the man that broke the EU.

The real beauty is that losing fishing may see Macron's demise and the rise of Marine Le Pen who is a big advocate of France leaving the EU.

 

Double whammy.

 

Let's hope Boris walks out of the talks. The EU is incapable of sensible negotiations anyway.

[david555]

12 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Hang in Boris. Screw trade deals. Just make sure our fisheries are safe from marauding French, Spanish and Portuguese trawlers.

Yeah....just give us our € passsporting back...out of City hands ......"blindfolded ' handling your presious fish ...????

.

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by david555

[transam]

3 hours ago, allane said:

Why should the EU negotiate with an ex-member, that voted to leave ? They should let Britain stand outside in the cold for twenty or twenty-five years. Then maybe let them back in, if they ask nicely.

Why do you say that, do you come from a poor EU country that will not get UK handouts...?

[luckyluke]

10 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

And with that you were saying what in regard to the information you quoted?

That I am not agree with this statement in the by me quoted text :

"we all knew that you cannot negotiate with an organisation like the EU".

[transam]

3 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

Exactly. Close the tunnel, cancel all flights, nothing in, and nothing out. Let them trade with the US and Australia, because it seems that's the only thing that will make them happy.

 

I am so tired of the UK.

 

 

You weren't tired of UK cash, were you...?

Seems you are now smarting, comrade.....????

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

To be 'fair' I would treat all parties the same, (...)

It's like having two children, (...)

I’m afraid you’re living in lala land; that’s not how business works. 
 

And had there been any goodwill to treat you like our child, you gambled it away with all your lies and abusive language about “Brussels dictators”, “unelected bureaucrats” and so on. You wanted to be treated as a third country, you are being treated as a third country. So stop the whining. 

[transam]

2 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

You are right, the UK has the right to refuse. And in return the EU refuses to give the UK the right to sell fish to the UK. So 75% of UK fishermen will lose their job very soon.

 

 

Another smarting EU national with a..........

 

????

 

 

[transam]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And I thought they are prepared since years.

Didn't those UK politicians think about what they want before they promoted Brexit?

And wasn't it their responsibility to plan and prepare for Brexit after the people voted for it 4 years ago.

The EU's position didn't change much in all that time.

Amazing UK.

Yes, the UK is amazing, always has been, we now move on with our country and waters totally intact.....How about you, continue living under a big stick...????

[david555]

21 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Our fishing industry will expand rapidly without the merciless competition from the EU super trawlers.

You will still meat them in those waters with the sold quotas for good money by your own fishermans ....now "rich "fishermans probably ..., because their sale out fish ownership to those " trawlers " ????

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

Same can be said about the UK. 75% of fish caught by UK fisherman goes to the EU. And from what I understand that will be blocked for the full 100%. So 75% of them will be without a job very soon.

It is not only fish caught by fishermen, there is also the onshore fishing industry which in Scotland employs about 3 times the number of offshore.

Johnson being a vocalist is more concerned about using the more vocal offshore sector in pursuit of his agenda.

The sooner Scotland can make an independent agreement with France the better. France is the onshore industry's biggest customer and the only way to stop the rural communities being eradicated.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

You will still meat them in those waters with the sold quotas for good money by your own fishermans ....now "rich "fishermans probably ..., because their sale out fish ownership to those " trawlers " ????

Noooooo meat, just fish......????

[luckyluke]

25 minutes ago, vogie said:

To be 'fair' I would treat all parties the same, in reality the UK has paid probably billions upon billions into the coffers of the EU and Canada hasn't paid a penny, so who are you going to be fair with, I'll leave that there for you to figure.

It's like having two children, one lives with you and the other one lives with his mother 5 miles down the road, and just because the one that lives with his mother is further away doesn't mean that he should get more spending money now does it, because that would be unfair.

The EU cannot possibly treat the UK fairly or else other nations might get ideas above their status and decide to leave and that wouldn't do at all now would it.

I don't know the details but if the U.K. has paid billions to the E.U., there must have been some kind of compensations.

On the other hand I believe that the E.U. make it somehow difficult to the U.K. because they leave the group, no club like that an important financial contributor leave. So they may be somehow resentful. Not that I agree with it.

I am however convinced that other countries in the E.U. have no actual desire to leave the group, based on the mess Brexit actually is.

If 48% of the people are not agree with the other 52% , but the 52% consider they have all the rights and the rest should just abide, this is a recipe for messing, and it shows.

 

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Bluff and bluster by Johnson. Does that man never learn? It has not worked so far and is not going to work now.

So have the trade talks been ended? No-one seems to know. It depends on who you speak to I guess.

Fishing eh? Which makes up 0.12% of the UK's GDP. And most of that is made up of fish sold to the EU. We are going to screw up a tariff free deal with our biggest trading partner over a couple of thousand spider crabs.

Fishing is not a big deal but brexiteers have been dog whistled into believing its critical. So we will have control of our waters but no market for the catches and also no access to EU waters either. 

Wait what? Those Johnny Foreigners are going to stop our plucky fishermen entering their waters? 

Now what is worth an awful lot of money is the UK's financial services. The EU is going to have that off us in the event of no deal.

However I do not believe the trade talks will be ended. I still think Johnson will capitulate. 

The EU will not allow the tail to wag the dog.

You just dont get it.

 

We have a 12 rai hobby farm which we use as a motocross track for me and the gf grows some fruit which she sells at the local school. With my job in Bangkok and rental income from abroad I reckon its probably around the 0.12% of our income that you quoted. Maybe less. Cant be bothered to calculate it.

 

That doesn't mean I want to give our nasty neighbours full access to come and take our fruit or ride my track whenever they want, forever. Because it's not theirs. It's called a principle. I couldn't give a toss how much the fruit is worth. We grew it. On our land. So they can jog on, like the french fisherman.

Edited October 17, 2020 by JonnyF

[welovesundaysatspace]

Moody's downgrades the UK's ratings to Aa3 (https://m.moodys.com/research/Moodys-downgrades-the-UKs-ratings-to-Aa3-outlook-stable--PR_434172) 

Moody's Investors Service ("Moodys") has today downgraded the government of the United Kingdom's long-term issuer and senior unsecured ratings to Aa3 from Aa2. (...) Even before the coronavirus-induced shock, a combination of persistently low productivity growth since the global financial crisis, tepid business investment since the June 2016 EU referendum, and prolonged uncertainty over the eventual future trading relationship with the EU were weighing on the UK's growth performance. Even if there is a trade deal between the UK and EU by the end of 2020, it will likely be narrow in scope and therefore the UK's exit from the EU will, in Moody's view, continue to put downward pressure on private investment and economic growth. (...) 

The third factor informing today's rating action is Moody's view that the UK's weakened institutional policy effectiveness, an element that the rating agency considers a governance factor under its ESG framework, makes these credit challenges more difficult to tackle. This reduced institutional capacity to manage change in a predictable and confidence-building manner is evident with respect to the UK's approach to Brexit, in its inability to achieve an outcome which meaningfully replicates the benefits of EU membership and in its approach to implementing the agreement reached with the EU to date. 

[david555]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Noooooo meat, just fish......????

yeah .... just changing your food  habits a bit …. you go get used to it .....while hating it …. but healthy...????

 

BTW   is it my imagination ….? but it seems your avatar start looking even more angry eyes than before ...????

[sandyf]

This time next year we should all be coming to terms with reality.

Much of the UK population will be wandering around the supermarkets wondering why there is so little to choose from at twice the price.

Those Brits in Thailand and elsewhere that have been able to survive the drop in the pound will be thinking, better here than there.

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You just dont get it.

 

We have a 12 rai hobby farm which we use as a motocross track for me and the gf grows some fruit which she sells at the local school. With my job in Bangkok and rental income from abroad I reckon its probably around the 0.12% of our income that you quoted. Maybe less. Cant be bothered to calculate it.

 

That doesn't mean I want to give our nasty neighbours full access to come and take our fruit or ride my track whenever they want, forever. Because it's not theirs. It's called a principle. I couldn't give a toss how much the fruit is worth. We grew it. On our land. So they can jog on, like the french fisherman.

Oh I get it.

By the way thats possibly the worst analogy for Brexit I have ever read. 

If you had said it was a communal farm and you decided to leave then it would make more sense.

So you now have all your fruit but no longer have a market to sell it to.

You gonna be eating a lot of fruit. Or just leaving it to rot.

 

[herfiehandbag]

40 minutes ago, david555 said:

Yeah....just give us our € passsporting back...out of City hands ......"blindfolded ' handling your presious fish ...????

.

 

Ah - echoes of "just give us our colonies back..."!

????

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

This time next year we should all be coming to terms with reality.

Much of the UK population will be wandering around the supermarkets wondering why there is so little to choose from at twice the price.

Those Brits in Thailand and elsewhere that have been able to survive the drop in the pound will be thinking, better here than there.

Yeah, because the EU 27 are the only food producers in the world. And all those regulations make it soooooo cheap.

 

Food prices will drop in the UK as we buy from elsewhere. As will EU sales to the UK as we source from more forward looking, less protectionist countries.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

yeah .... just changing your food  habits a bit …. you go get used to it .....while hating it …. but healthy...????

 

BTW   is it my imagination ….? but it seems your avatar start looking even more angry eyes than before ...????

And your money avatar will soon be deflating...............????

[transam]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

This time next year we should all be coming to terms with reality.

Much of the UK population will be wandering around the supermarkets wondering why there is so little to choose from at twice the price.

Those Brits in Thailand and elsewhere that have been able to survive the drop in the pound will be thinking, better here than there.

You do come out with some real cr_p....Lets face it, you don't like Brits.... 

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh I get it.

By the way thats possibly the worst analogy for Brexit I have ever read. 

If you had said it was a communal farm and you decided to leave then it would make more sense.

So you now have all your fruit but no longer have a market to sell it to.

You gonna be eating a lot of fruit. Or just leaving it to rot.

 

Still dont get it. It's not communal any more. We broke that arrangement. So they need to get out. 

 

As for selling, we buy much more than we sell. If they dont want to buy from us any more, no problem we won't buy from them. We can buy from the next village. Cheaper.

[herfiehandbag]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

And your money avatar will soon be deflating...............????

It is already reliant on a parachute!

 

Perhaps the parachute is a metaphor - for the German economy?

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Yeah, because the EU 27 are the only food producers in the world. And all those regulations make it soooooo cheap.

 

Food prices will drop in the UK as we buy from elsewhere. As will EU sales to the UK as we source from more forward looking, less protectionist countries.

Food prices will drop?

After the pound has lost 15 to 20% against almost every currency in the world?

Increased shipping costs? Not to mention some fruit and veg cant be transported by sea because it will be rotten by the time it gets here.

Ship it by air then! Yeah ok and that squares with cheaper food how?

[JusticeGB]

Barnier is a Frenchman and is not negotiating in good faith. He should be negotiating for the EU and not just for France. No wonder that Boris has pulled out of negotiations. Barnier won't give an inch on the UK's own fishing waters. 

[david555]

7 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Ah - echoes of "just give us our colonies back..."!

????

But the passporting echoe does sounds soooo nice .....thanks for it ...Signed : Frankfurt / Paris ????

[Rookiescot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Still dont get it. It's not communal any more. We broke that arrangement. So they need to get out. 

 

As for selling, we buy much more than we sell. If they dont want to buy from us any more, no problem we won't buy from them. We can buy from the next village. Cheaper.

Yes they need to get out of your part of the communal farm.

You also have to get out of their far bigger part.

And that next village is thousands of miles away.

[Surelynot]

[transam]

1 minute ago, JusticeGB said:

Barnier is a Frenchman and is not negotiating in good faith. He should be negotiating for the EU and not just for France. No wonder that Boris has pulled out of negotiations. Barnier won't give an inch on the UK's own fishing waters. 

Yes, Macron has received a lot of stick inside the EU about the UK waters, now no deal, and he still has no access to UK waters...I hope...