Jump to content

Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

There will be no downside to Brexit, only considerable upside. David Davis   The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and can choose the path we want. Michael Gove

Why should the EU negotiate with an ex-member, that voted to leave ? They should let Britain stand outside in the cold for twenty or twenty-five years. Then maybe let them back in, if they ask nicely.

Hilarious so if  those 27  countries  all had an 3  trillion economy it should   be  81   trillion instead of the paltry 18.4  trillion

Posted Images

On 10/17/2020 at 6:46 AM, dimitriv said:

 

Exactly. Close the tunnel, cancel all flights, nothing in, and nothing out. Let them trade with the US and Australia, because it seems that's the only thing that will make them happy.

 

I am so tired of the UK.

 

 

I wish we would close the tunnel.  As i am sooo tired of French people moaning. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/20/2020 at 3:13 AM, nauseus said:

Here you go. Got up early just for you. The sampling totals by area seem disproportionate to population numbers in some areas and I'd like to see more geographical and actual sample detail about specific regions, especially the "rest of south", which could skew the overall results a lot. 

 

But then it is just a poll:

 

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/5l5pygu8gt/TimesResults_200924_VI_Trackers_W.pdf

 

Thank you for that and apologies for my tardiness in responding.

 

You have produced the results and weightings from polls conducted on 24/9/20; mine were from a long sequence of polls from 28/9/2016 to 8/10/20; which includes yours but I don't know if the samples were the same.

 

However, using your tables, apart from London the south voted leave in 2016. In fact, all of the English regions did! As did Wales. (Source). As Northern Ireland isn't included in your results, only Scotland and London represent areas with Remain majorities in 2016. Together they have 335 weighted samples out of a total of 1623; 20.6%!

 

So if the results are skewed at all, then they're skewed towards Leave!

  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Thank you for that and apologies for my tardiness in responding.

 

You have produced the results and weightings from polls conducted on 24/9/20; mine were from a long sequence of polls from 28/9/2016 to 8/10/20; which includes yours but I don't know if the samples were the same.

 

However, using your tables, apart from London the south voted leave in 2016. In fact, all of the English regions did! As did Wales. (Source). As Northern Ireland isn't included in your results, only Scotland and London represent areas with Remain majorities in 2016. Together they have 335 weighted samples out of a total of 1623; 20.6%!

 

So if the results are skewed at all, then they're skewed towards Leave!

 

Not my tables and, like I said, no real detail. The 'rest of south' region might be all close to London and that would make a huge difference. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not my tables

My use of the possessive pronouns was not to suggest that you and I had produced them; but to differentiate between the tables you linked to and those I had.

 

30 minutes ago, nauseus said:

and, like I said, no real detail. The 'rest of south' region might be all close to London and that would make a huge difference. 

Sorry, a poor excuse. All of the South voted Leave; including the area closest to London; the South East. 

Proportional bar chart

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

My use of the possessive pronouns was not to suggest that you and I had produced them; but to differentiate between the tables you linked to and those I had.

 

Sorry, a poor excuse. All of the South voted Leave; including the area closest to London; the South East. 

Proportional bar chart

 

 

Nice visual, though it all depends how you regroup the data. 

For example in Wales, I read that Welsh - speaking area were "remain". 

 

Now the message of this overall 50% split meaning is very clear : is means a moderate Brexit, not the extreme form of Brexit which is now imposed.

 

These last years, Brexiteers went from a reassuring "oven ready deal", "simplest-ever", to a "no-ECJ", "no level playing field" discourse, with the consequence that the best treaty now is closer to a no-deal than to the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) option, which the referendum result would call for. 

 

And there is a serious threat on the Union : northern Ireland already was set to be reunited long term, but a Scottish independence is now in the polls by a wide margin 

 

Quote

By the autumn of 2019, clear majorities of Conservative voters were ready to jettison the UK, and even the Conservative party itself, in pursuit of Brexit.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/25/north-south-divide-old-as-england-itself-unity-is-only--ever-fleeting

 

 

It's your country and your responsibility, but it seems like you have a choice between this extreme Brexit and the Union.

 

But you cannot have both

 

Edited by Hi from France
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, 7by7 said:

My use of the possessive pronouns was not to suggest that you and I had produced them; but to differentiate between the tables you linked to and those I had.

 

Sorry, a poor excuse. All of the South voted Leave; including the area closest to London; the South East. 

Proportional bar chart

 

 

I'm not making excuses and you are incorrect when you say that 'all of the south voted leave'. There is not enough geographic detail w.r.t. the location of the samples. Pockets of areas in the south (e.g. Brighton) had a very high remain vote in 2016. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

 

Nice visual, though it all depends how you regroup the data. 

For example in Wales, I read that Welsh - speaking area were "remain". 

 

Now the message of this overall 50% split meaning is very clear : is means a moderate Brexit, not the extreme form of Brexit which is now imposed.

 

These last years, Brexiteers went from a reassuring "oven ready deal", "simplest-ever", to a "no-ECJ", "no level playing field" discourse, with the consequence that the best treaty now is closer to a no-deal than to the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) option, which the referendum result would call for. 

 

And there is a serious threat on the Union : northern Ireland already was set to be reunited long term, but a Scottish independence is now in the polls by a wide margin 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/25/north-south-divide-old-as-england-itself-unity-is-only--ever-fleeting

 

 

It's your country and your responsibility, but it seems like you have a choice between this extreme Brexit and the Union.

 

But you cannot have both

 

 

Like cake and eating it? Or fish?

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Now the message of this overall 50% split meaning is very clear : is means a moderate Brexit, not the extreme form of Brexit which is now imposed.

No it does not. You have no idea of how 'extreme' the majority voted for Brexit. However, as it was the majority there is no requirement to make any consideration at all of how extreme a Remain the losers voted for. The Remainers and EU lost, that is all.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Hi from France said:

<snip>

Nice visual, though it all depends how you regroup the data. 

For example in Wales, I read that Welsh - speaking area were "remain".

 The Electoral Commission's EU referendum results by region: Wales shows that of the 22 Welsh regions, only 5 voted Remain. 

 

Which of those areas are majority Welsh speaking, I don't know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

I'm not making excuses and you are incorrect when you say that 'all of the south voted leave'. There is not enough geographic detail w.r.t. the location of the samples. Pockets of areas in the south (e.g. Brighton) had a very high remain vote in 2016. 

 

EU referendum results by region: South East shows that out of 67 areas, 24 voted Remain; including Brighton and Hove.

 

I'll let you check the South West if you wish.

 

The SE region as a whole voted to leave by 51/8% to 48.2%. Very similar to the 51.9% to 48.1% result for the whole country.

 

Your trying to argue that because some areas in a region voted Remain means that saying the whole region voted Leave is incorrect is ridiculous; as ridiculous as were I to try to argue that because some areas of the UK voted Remain the whole referendum result is incorrect!

 

Your argument mainly falls down, though, because a whole country, Northern Ireland, which voted Remain is not included in the poll!

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Loiner said:

No it does not. You have no idea of how 'extreme' the majority voted for Brexit. However, as it was the majority there is no requirement to make any consideration at all of how extreme a Remain the losers voted for. The Remainers and EU lost, that is all.

 Yes, Leave won.

 

Won on the false promises of Vote.Leave that leaving meant we'd ditch the bits we didn't like but keep all the bits we did and the outright xenophobia of Farage and others of his ilk.

 

The xenophobes would still have followed Farage and voted Leave.

 

The dyed in the wool EU haters would still have voted Leave regardless of any and all arguments.

 

But both of these would not have been sufficient. Leave won because enough people fell for Vote.Leave's lies to give them the narrow victory.

 

Yes, Leave did win, though, and we have left the EU. All we can hope for now is that Cummings and his puppet see sense and don't condemn us to the disaster of no deal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

EU referendum results by region: South East shows that out of 67 areas, 24 voted Remain; including Brighton and Hove.

 

I'll let you check the South West if you wish.

 

The SE region as a whole voted to leave by 51/8% to 48.2%. Very similar to the 51.9% to 48.1% result for the whole country.

 

Your trying to argue that because some areas in a region voted Remain means that saying the whole region voted Leave is incorrect is ridiculous; as ridiculous as were I to try to argue that because some areas of the UK voted Remain the whole referendum result is incorrect!

 

Your argument mainly falls down, though, because a whole country, Northern Ireland, which voted Remain is not included in the poll!

 

That doesn't read very well. You might want to have another go.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Yes, Leave won.

 

Won on the false promises of Vote.Leave that leaving meant we'd ditch the bits we didn't like but keep all the bits we did and the outright xenophobia of Farage and others of his ilk.

 

The xenophobes would still have followed Farage and voted Leave.

 

The dyed in the wool EU haters would still have voted Leave regardless of any and all arguments.

 

But both of these would not have been sufficient. Leave won because enough people fell for Vote.Leave's lies to give them the narrow victory.

 

Yes, Leave did win, though, and we have left the EU. All we can hope for now is that Cummings and his puppet see sense and don't condemn us to the disaster of no deal.

 

Leave won because, over a long period, the majority had had time to come to their own conclusions about EU membership. The decision was little to do with the leave/remain campaigns and there were lies from both sides anyway. How many times do we have to revisit this? Boring!  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...