"The Stranded": Highlighting the plight of expats unable to return to Thailand; #2 Retirees

[rooster59]

"The Stranded": Highlighting the plight of expats unable to return to Thailand; #2 Retirees

 

Image: Reuters file photo
 
Today Thaivisa continues our series of articles about people who are desperate to get back to their lives and loved ones in Thailand but who are stranded abroad. 
 
Recently we published a story about one expat who went back to his birthplace earlier in the year then found himself unable to leave the UK. We asked for other people in similar situations to come forward and share their stories. 
 
We have been overwhelmed with replies from people who want to be heard.
 
Now we would like to highlight their situations and intend to present their legitimate concerns and frustrations to the Thai authorities so that patent injustices might be addressed. 
 
It's important to do something even if sometimes dealing with Thai officialdom can seem like a pointless exercise.
 
Today we have chosen the stories of a UK couple, a former US defence worker and a man who is desperately needed because he supports a Thai wife, child and extended family. They are all in their 60s. 
 
We end with a man who had some choice words for the Thai authorities.
 
Here are their stories. 
 
Mr and Mrs B and ????
 
"My wife and I are 69 and 67, both British and are stranded in the UK.We have lived in Thailand for 9 years with an original "O" visa which was converted to an extension of stay [retirement visa] and renewed in Koh Samui every year.
 
"Unfortunately in June we had to return to the UK after the death of my wife's father. We are now ready to return but the Thai embassy has stated that we cannot.
 
"Our visas are current, we have re-entry permits, 5 million pounds health insurance which includes COVID cover, 800K baht each in a Thai bank and are prepared to do the 14 day quarantine".
 
"What more can we do?", implored Mr B.
 
"We have lived in the same rented accommodation in Samui for the duration. Consequently we have accumulated a large amount of furniture and personal effects such as clothes, pictures, photos and private paperwork we have to continue with the rent to preserve all that.
 
I hope the Thai authorities will relent before our visas expire or I will be forced to withdraw our capital from the Thai banks".
 
Thaivisa notes that others with money in the bank have found it problematic to withdraw funds if they are not personally present in Thailand, even through legal proxies.
 
Secondly there is the story of Mr D who left Thailand to help some Thai youths on a trip to the Philippines. Little did he know that months later he would still be stranded there:
 
"I share the same frustrations. I am 65 years old and retired from the United States Department of Defence. I came to Thailand in 2010, while I was working with the US/Thai Government. 
 
"I found (the Thais) to be very understanding and caring toward expats. So I decided that I would make Thailand my home upon my retirement. I have held a legal Non-O Retirement Visa since 2016. I have a  leased apartment and a bank account into which I transfer money from my U.S. account in the amount of at least 65,000 baht per month to meet immigration requirements. 
 
"I came to the Philippines on 9 March on a round trip ticket to supervise a Masonic Youth group on a hiking trip to Mt. Pinatubo. A trip which the group had spent the last two years raising money for. 
 
"The pandemic struck the Philippines before we could leave. All flights were cancelled going back to Thailand for several months. Each time I tried to book a flight back to Thailand, AirAsia required me to purchase a new return trip ticket. 
 
"I complied, but then the flight was cancelled. This has occurred four times so far, so I now have credit or refund requests for four return tickets that should have been free. 
 
"It has been impossible to speak to anyone from Air Asia, because their offices have been closed at the nearby Clark Airport. There has been no way to contact any one from their office at Ninoy Aquino International Airport in Manila".
 
Mr D was continually fobbed off and now says: "To me this has been one big SCAM!"
 
"I am in contact with the Thai Embassy in Manila who informed me that Non-O Retirement Visas are not being let back into Thailand yet. I have informed them that I have a legal, valid visa, which expires in January, rental agreement, bank account and personal effects in Thailand".
 
He continued: 
 
"Through a friend, I am still paying rent for my rent, utilities and cable TV so I can have a home to return to one day. 
 
"But that has not been taken into consideration, they just say each week call or email them about the requirements to return. The “Land of Smiles” is no longer smiling as friends, but laughing at us because they know they are taking advantage of us. What is the most hurtful part of it is that they are allowing short term tourists in but ignoring us!
 
"There has got to be someone in the Thai Government that cares!", he concluded.
 
Thirdly there is the story of Mr E:
 
"I am 65 years old and have been living in Thailand for 12 years and going there for 15 years. I had bars and a work permit for 9 of those years. 
 
"I keep an apartment in Patong (Phuket) but mostly stay elsewhere. I have been building a house. Of course all my purchases are in the name of my girl friend whom I met 14 years ago. 
 
"The reason the car is in her name so she can build credit in case something happens to me. I  pay all the expenses for her car, house, traveling and child's schooling and some of her parents' bills if needed.
 
"We never got married because she feels it's not necessary and because everyone thinks we are and she doesn't go without anything. 
 
"Her daughter calls me "papa" and I recognize her as my own. 
 
"Over the years I went to the USA to visit my family, as everyone does. Last year (my wife) finally decided that she would come to the USA for her first trip there and we started the visa process.
 
Then Covid struck and she got scared. I returned to the USA without her thinking I would be back in a month.  Now the restrictions from Thailand make it impossible with outrageous prices to pay. 
 
"They await my return so that their lives can be better, financially speaking. 
 
"I am the family's main source of income and I accept that as a loving family man does. Hopefully I can return soon without all the stupid requirements as I spend a large amount of money in the Thailand economy not just with my family but in the wider community and with friends".
 
Finally, here are some direct words from a man we shall call only Mr F. Many are feeling just like him among "The Stranded":
 
"I have lived in Thailand for 24 years. I have had a non-O retirement visa for about 17 years. In July I had to fly to my home country for very important reasons with a return flight in August. 
 
"Now Thailand doesn't want me anymore. I lived with the same Thai partner and family for 23 years, but not married to her. I have a big, beautiful house, a car ... and more than 800,000 Baht in my bank account.
 
"This Thai arbitrariness is a great shame. If my re-entry permit expires, I will probably never go to Thailand again. My contempt for this country and how decent foreigners are treated is too great. People don't count for them, only money".
 

RELATED: "The Stranded": Thaivisa highlights the plight of expats unable to return to Thailand: #1: Teachers

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2020-10-17

 

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[allane]

If you are writing these stories to get my sympathy, it is not working.  I have a some sympathy for anyone who left in 2019, but it ends there. If you left this year, could you not have foreseen how this thing might have gone ? Even if you could not have seen the exact contours, you should have seen the possibilities.

I was invited in early March to accompany another foreigner who was planning a trip out of Thailand in early April. I "graciously declined". Actually, I did more than that; I successfully persuaded him not to leave. He is still thanking me, though he is in a category where he would have been able to return by now. However, he might have lost his job before he was able to get back.

I have lived in Thailand for 25 years, and never bought a condominium here. Now you know one of the reasons why.

[Peabody]

Anyone on the "retirement" extension have any success in getting it renewed at their local consulate, or do we all just lose those too?

[Peter Denis]

Strange that the article does not mention that there is now a relatively easy solution for all 3 cases.  All of them can now apply for a 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa which would allow them to get the COE to return to Thailand.

[fangless]

50 minutes ago, allane said:

If you are writing these stories to get my sympathy, it is not working.  I have a some sympathy for anyone who left in 2019, but it ends there. If you left this year, could you not have foreseen how this thing might have gone ? Even if you could not have seen the exact contours, you should have seen the possibilities.

Since your crystal ball gazing is so great I assume you win the lottery every time!

FYI the US for example did not impose travel restrictions on non US citizens until 31 Jan 2020.  How could you foresee this in 2019?

[19DL86]

A slight nuance to the earlier post #1 teachers.  Whilst I see that TVF and Rooster are doing so in good faith and with compassion, to try and make those of us who might be living under a large rock,(therefore unaware) of these scenarios.  But pressuring the current administration and Immigration, not a good move.

Ref Richard Barrow and the TM30 climb down. Just my opinion.

I've lived here a long while and the writing has been on the wall for a large part of the last 10 years, the letters growing larger year after year.  But some people choose to ignore this.  I feel, as do many Expats we are not so much welcomed, nor tolerated as we once might have felt.  Too much shifting sands for my like,ing to warrant investment here.  There's a growing Nationalism right the way across the World from US to UK an increasing hostility to foreigners, and immigrants.  Thailand is no different.

I see a new "flag" being waved how many of those here will ignore this "writing in the wall" - it's started with the "Elite Visa" investments, then the enforcement of funds seasoning in Thai banks for Non O visa applicants.  Then the STV and more recently the starkly frightening requirement of 3MilBt deposit in Govt Bonds or bank, to return to your own Condo.  So on and so.

Only a few days have passed since I read in these very pages that the banks aren't guaranteeing deposits in excess of 1MilBt, after next year, and so too other alarming stories coming out of the financial institutions.

To me it's evident Thailand is financially over stressed and on their way to hell in a hand cart.

Many of these foreigners unable to return or access their accounts might be eyed as easy prey.  Those nominee shareholder "shelf" Companies owning land and houses to circumvent property ownership laws, might be low hanging fruit.

Be very cautious don't ever think what happened in Zimbabwe 40 years ago can't be repeated.  We re living in perilous times and Chinas current attitude and influence must not be taken too lightly.  

Just my thoughts and not in any way professional.
 

Edited October 17, 2020 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal, please use the default forum font size when posting which is size 14.

[indieke]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Strange that the article does not mention that there is now a relatively easy solution for all 3 cases.  All of them can now apply for a 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa which would allow them to get the COE to return to Thailand.

Yes, I read that too. But if you have a year contract rent, you keep on paying, while not be able to go back to your place. Like said very well above, buying has more risks, then renting here. It not means if you rent, it is not your home. 

[cardinalblue]

Will they have a problem withdrawing 800,000 baht each From a Thai Bank and more importantly transferring it out of the country? Will there be barriers?

[fangless]

1 minute ago, cardinalblue said:

Will they have a problem withdrawing 800,000 baht each From a Thai Bank and more importantly transferring it out of the country? Will there be barriers?

Yes.

[fangless]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Thaivisa notes that others with money in the bank have found it problematic to withdraw funds if they are not personally present in Thailand, even through legal proxies.

See comment above!

[Mr Meeseeks]

No problem sending funds overseas from Thailand with the K-Bank app. 

 

In fact, it literally couldn't get any easier. 

[crazykopite]

4 hours ago, Peabody said:

Anyone on the "retirement" extension have any success in getting it renewed at their local consulate, or do we all just lose those too?

Sadly you lose them and have to start all over again I’m stuck in Thailand my wife is in the U.K. in her 10th month and has got so settled over there she does not want to come back to Thailand problem is we own a property here have cats and if I went back to the U.K. I would find it nigh impossible to get back into Thailand . My next door neighbour who is Chinese has the same problem his Chinese wife can’t get back after visiting her mother yet you have the Thai government claiming Chinese are allowed back into Thailand my neighbour tells me this is total BS as his wife has tried every Avenue to try and return.

[SomchaiCNX]

It is time that our embassies en governments impose the same restriction on all Thai people. If they don't meet the same requirements, kick them out and send them back to Thailand.

[crazykopite]

18 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

Will they have a problem withdrawing 800,000 baht each From a Thai Bank and more importantly transferring it out of the country? Will there be barriers?

I’ve started taking my 800 k out even though I am living here I’ve always been against using an agent but next year I will gladly pay up for them to sort out my retirement and sod leaving to much money in my account Thailand is on a cliff edge my scb moved my account from one branch to another two years ago and didn’t notify me until 3 weeks after it happened they didn’t even give me a choice they just did it.

[crazykopite]

2 hours ago, indieke said:

Yes, I read that too. But if you have a year contract rent, you keep on paying, while not be able to go back to your place. Like said very well above, buying has more risks, then renting here. It not means if you rent, it is not your home. 

And it’s my understanding that those who own there homes now must have 3 million baht in a Thai bank this was announced last week as soon as I heard this I started withdrawing my savings Thailand is on a cliff edge and I am not going to risk losing my money if and when they put locks on the cash machines and limit what you can withdraw don’t say it can’t happen it happened in the U.K. a few years back never say never .

[gungadin1]

Never burn all your bridges in your home country then you won't be "stranded"

I returned to UK in August for personal reasons.Will return as and when I can.

Still have house in uk even though I have lived in Pattaya for 20 years.

Not stressing about it.

Edited October 17, 2020 by gungadin1

[Greenhill]

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

No problem sending funds overseas from Thailand with the K-Bank app. 

 

In fact, it literally couldn't get any easier. 

 

But the app doesn't work from outside Thailand!!

[Mr Meeseeks]

44 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

And it’s my understanding that those who own there homes now must have 3 million baht in a Thai bank this was announced last week as soon as I heard this I started withdrawing my savings Thailand is on a cliff edge and I am not going to risk losing my money if and when they put locks on the cash machines and limit what you can withdraw don’t say it can’t happen it happened in the U.K. a few years back never say never .

Another point to note is that foreigners are only protected for less than a million Baht in a Thai bank account. The rules recently changed and now differ from the protection offered to Thai nationals. 

[Neeranam]

Thailand is my home and I've lived here for 27 years. I sold for Thai citizenship 3 years ago to prevent situations like these when I retire. 

If you are happy being a guest, fine but don't expect to be treated as anything else. 

Frankly, I sympathise with the retirees but they should have known when they went abroad. 

I lost 70k baht by cancelling my flight to the UK in March but common sense prevailed. 

[skorp13]

5 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Strange that the article does not mention that there is now a relatively easy solution for all 3 cases.  All of them can now apply for a 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa which would allow them to get the COE to return to Thailand.

If they are not allowing foreigners from the country you are in it doesn't matter what kind of visa you have or how much money you have in a Thai bank. They don't give a rats behind

[fangless]

49 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Another point to note is that foreigners are only protected for less than a million Baht in a Thai bank account. The rules recently changed and now differ from the protection offered to Thai nationals. 

 

From August 11, 2019 Thai Baht Deposits are protected under the Deposit Protection Agency Act up to a maximum of 5 million baht per one depositor per financial institution until August 10, 2021.

More information available at Deposit Protection Agency website www.dpa.or.th

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Tips-and-Insights/Save-and-Invest/Practical-advice-on-deposit-protection#:~:text=Deposit Protection From August 11%2C 2019 Thai Baht,information available at Deposit Protection Agency website www.dpa.or.th

 

There is no difference between Thai and non Thai!

Edited October 17, 2020 by fangless

[Airalee]

32 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Another point to note is that foreigners are only protected for less than a million Baht in a Thai bank account. The rules recently changed and now differ from the protection offered to Thai nationals. 

I haven’t seen anything other than the fact that deposit insurance drops next August to ฿1,000,000 (postponed for a year from this past August when it was supposed to change).  
 

Do you have a link where it shows the difference between protection offered to Thai nationals vs Foreigners?  I have not seen any mention of this anywhere (until your post).

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts, inflammatory posts, troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[vandeventer]

For the life of me I don't understand the Government, they want the tourist but they make it so hard for the people that retired here to return. They should be on top of the list for people to return. They made Thailand their home and they support Thailand in many ways, so  lets stop the BS and let them in. 

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, allane said:

If you are writing these stories to get my sympathy, it is not working. 

So what should they have done, not attended his wife's father's funeral, do you hear what you are saying, I am dreading the day my mother passes away if it's in this current climate, I cannot go and visit her because I will have to do 14 days quarantine in my home country and then if lucky to get back in here, I will have to quarantine for 14 days here.

 

These governments around the world have taken control over all of our lives over a mere coronavirus flu, we have had 4 previous coronaviruses that we have handed well under herd immunity, the tests they are conducting are not accurate, even the WHO has recently stated that, even one of their head doctors has said lockdowns are not the way to go if there is no spreading of the virus.

 

Have you asked yourself what is really going on, maybe you enjoy listening to the BS you are fed, ask the protesters in BKK why the government has declared a 'state of emergency' for a month, to shut them up and to make them go away or face arrest, nothing to do with Covid-19, is this democracy or another form of lockdown abuse.

 

I have all the sympathy in the world for this couple who made Thailand their home but now can't get back in because these governments are playing with our lives under their controlled regime. 

[Peter Denis]

28 minutes ago, skorp13 said:

If they are not allowing foreigners from the country you are in it doesn't matter what kind of visa you have or how much money you have in a Thai bank. They don't give a rats behind

What you write is not correct > it is ONLY when applying for a Special Tourist Visa (STV) that you need to travel from a “LOW-RISK” AREA.

When meeting the criteria (e.g. married to a Thai national, or with a Non Imm O-A Visa) you can apply for the COE at your Thai Embassy/Consulate abroad.

[dundas]

54 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

 

But the app doesn't work from outside Thailand!!

Use a VPN and connect it in Bangkok? 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, crazykopite said:

Sadly you lose them and have to start all over again I’m stuck in Thailand my wife is in the U.K. in her 10th month and has got so settled over there she does not want to come back to Thailand problem is we own a property here have cats and if I went back to the U.K. I would find it nigh impossible to get back into Thailand . My next door neighbour who is Chinese has the same problem his Chinese wife can’t get back after visiting her mother yet you have the Thai government claiming Chinese are allowed back into Thailand my neighbour tells me this is total BS as his wife has tried every Avenue to try and return.

"the Thai government claiming Chinese are allowed back into Thailand"

 

You have to be one of "The 120" desirables  wealthy coming to Phuket last month  last week   next week Oh, never mind!

 

P.S. Sorry about your cats!

[mikebike]

5 hours ago, fangless said:

Since your crystal ball gazing is so great I assume you win the lottery every time!

FYI the US for example did not impose travel restrictions on non US citizens until 31 Jan 2020.  How could you foresee this in 2019?

Well, if you were waiting for govts to react you were already way behind the curve. We were hearing about it in late Dec 2019 and by mid Jan 2020 understood the global implications. Made our plans to be back in the LOS by early Feb 2020.

[Thaifly88]

6 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Strange that the article does not mention that there is now a relatively easy solution for all 3 cases.  All of them can now apply for a 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa which would allow them to get the COE to return to Thailand.

That is not the case, at least not here in The Philippines. Last week I requested information about returning to Thailand on my current non OA retirement extension, only to be told by the RTE in Manila that ‘we are not processing retirement visas yet’. I think Thailand is treating each country differently, possibly according to the level of Covid infection.