"The Stranded": Highlighting the plight of expats unable to return to Thailand; #3 Charity workers and volunteers

[2530Ubon]

21 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

1 hour ago, maddermax said:

The authorities are stupid. We retired expats are providing the bulk of funding for the country right now. 

i am afraid you greatly overestimate the weight of the retired expats contribution to Thailand global gdp

Yes, this is a very tiring comment.

"A pension only goes so far..." Is a comment I hear a lot in the farang bars, but those on TVF seem to be the exception to this.

If it was such a vast amount each month, they wouldn't be living here; is another comment I hear frequently.

'Stranded' tourists, remote workers, digital nomads etc, all bring in more than retirees. That's why the government doesn't care about bringing retirees out of the country back in yet.

[fangless]

16 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

It seems voluntering was a way to get a visa for a lot of them who didn't fill the requirments (Age. finances...)

for a visa in relation with their real situation in the country.

 

I can see that "volunteer visa/extension loophole getting closed as soon as the cash cow Pandemic is over and they truly want only real "volunteers".

[connda]

30 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

The first question to ask is does Thailand need foreign volunteers?

I believe the first question to ask is "does Thailand want foreign volunteers?"  After living here almost a decade and a half my answer would be, "No, they don't." 
However, if you go to the "volunteer" website quoted in the article then you'll realize that there are a class of entrepreneurs who make their living my running "charities" by supplying "volunteer labor" to some "cause" by charging the volunteer themselves a significant fee.  What in return?  A visa and a work permit?  Really?
I know how difficult it is to obtain a visa and a work permit.  Been there, done that.  Now, I'm suppose to believe that all of these organizations supply their "pay to volunteer" foreign help with a visa and a work permit in order to (for example) pick up trash in a national park for a week or teach Hill Tribe kids English for a fortnight?  It beggars belief, but I'll keep an open mind.  I'd love to see their books.  Aren't charities suppose to keep a set of public records including financials.  Maybe not in Thailand.

My guess, knowing the culture, is that Thailand allows these organizations to operate because that are in fact money generating ventures, granted, under the title of a charity.  And Thais respect money.

Thais do not respect the unfortunate and the down-trodden or the needy.  So I'd believe that the authorities really don't care about foreign volunteers other than as an income source.  Sort of like the same as the "charities."

Don't get me wrong.  I know people doing charitable work in Thailand.  These people solicit freely given donations, have a very specific cause, and are not enriching themselves as their donations go completely to their cause.  So I have the utmost respect for true charities and the people who freely give their time to support them. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by connda

[BangkokReady]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

He is now stranded in Switzerland when he ought to be continuing his good work in Thailand. He thinks Thailand has "lost it".

 

"It doesn’t need to be expressed that the general sentiment from these very committed volunteers is that Thailand wants the money we spend helping people but they don't seem to care about those who do good for their people! 

Sounds more like a simple but harsh does of reality for these guys.

 

Most people visiting or living in Thailand know only too well that this is how many Thais view foreigners.

[2530Ubon]

8 minutes ago, fangless said:

I can see that "volunteer visa/extension loophole getting closed as soon as the cash cow Pandemic is over and they truly want only real "volunteers".

It's a visa that's been used, abused and tolerated long before the pandemic. It's more 'out in the open' now though.

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

What also astounds me is the CEO "compensation" among charities in the United Kingdom alone - CEO's in the US of A get much, much more!

Also all the staff are poshos on a nice jolly.  Living it up like colonial overlords while having sex with local prostitutes or keeping hired mistresses.

[fangless]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

all of these organizations supply their "pay to volunteer" foreign help with a visa and a work permit in order to (for example) pick up trash in a national park for a week or teach Hill Tribe kids English for a fortnight? 

If by the above you mean the "volunteer" visa/extension being discussed  then I know that NO work or anything is involved except that the "volunteer" pays the agent 45-65K who gets the Visa/extension for them and "donates" to the "sponsor" charity.  In CM the Volunteer Visa/extension is not allowed by the CM Governor (banned in CM) so the CM expats availing themselves of this "service use an agent that registers them in Khon Kaen,  They even do "fake" hotel bookings to get round TM30/90 day etc!!  I know of two Brits who boast about this in public. 

It disgusts me that they abuse the system this way and that it may possibly kill off any legitimate volunteer system in the future.

[fangless]

12 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

It's a visa that's been used, abused and tolerated long before the pandemic. It's more 'out in the open' now though.

Maybe, but now it is out in the open and the prices have skyrocketed as a result it will come under more scrutiny as it is not a "Countrywide" legal visa!

[MRToMRT]

30 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Yes, this is a very tiring comment.

"A pension only goes so far..." Is a comment I hear a lot in the farang bars, but those on TVF seem to be the exception to this.

If it was such a vast amount each month, they wouldn't be living here; is another comment I hear frequently.

'Stranded' tourists, remote workers, digital nomads etc, all bring in more than retirees. That's why the government doesn't care about bringing retirees out of the country back in yet.

Maybe you are hanging out in the wrong type of bars?

[2530Ubon]

2 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

Maybe you are hanging out in the wrong type of bars?

Quite possibly!

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

What also astounds me is the CEO "compensation" among charities in the United Kingdom alone - CEO's in the US of A get much, much more!

 

Charity	CEO salary (£)	CEO name
Cancer Research UK	240,000	Harpal Kumar
Macmillan Cancer Support	170,000	Ciarán Devane
NSPCC	162,000	Peter Wanless
Oxfam	124,000	Mark Goldring

Also, the amount that some celebrities get for their services:-

 

 

"During filming for the show Dispatches, I’m a Celeb contestant Caitlyn Jenner along with football manager Harry Redknapp were both offered and accepted large sums of money to back a dummy charity, called Cleaning Up Plastic Pollution in Africa (Cuppa).

Agents who book in the celebrities told the show that Harry Redknapp would cost £15,000 for him to do one post on Instagram and an extra £5,000 for a photoshoot."

 

I saw similar numbers for Canadian charities, disgusting.. 

[connda]

20 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

'Stranded' tourists, remote workers, digital nomads etc, all bring in more than retirees.

I'd bet that the average US retiree is bringing in over 1M THB a year while reinvesting the remainder of the income in the US stock exchange.  Or they have income streams supplemented by an IRA and personal savings.

I'm suppose to believe that some millennial back-packer with a keyboard and up to their eye-balls in student-loan debt is bringing that same amount of money into Thailand and ejecting it into the Thai economy as foreign currency as Boomer retirees?

Really - you people are daft.  Have any of you bothered to research the generational breakdown of what segment of the populations actually has the wealth in places like the US (other than billionaires).
It happens to be the Boomers who are the current crop of retirees.  Yeah, we came here because money goes wayyy further.  For some reason ya'll think that means we're all dirt poor and would be living in HUD housing and eating on food stamps when we're not on the street panhandling for quarters.  Have you ever considered the number of people who simply don't want to deal with the baloney in the "home country" like property taxes, endless regulation, and an in-your-face nanny-state dictating you every move.  I've no property taxes, I don't need permits to build, and other than the hassle of immigration and an occasional roadblock, the government generally stays out of my and my wife's affairs and leaves us alone.  And - money goes further. 
"See - your poor!"
See - your daft. Bluster all you want.  Retirees bring in a significant chunk of money into Thailand.  And they should be let back in asap.  End of story.

[connda]

25 minutes ago, fangless said:

If by the above you mean the "volunteer" visa/extension being discussed  then I know that NO work or anything is involved except that the "volunteer" pays the agent 45-65K who gets the Visa/extension for them and "donates" to the "sponsor" charity.  In CM the Volunteer Visa/extension is not allowed by the CM Governor (banned in CM) so the CM expats availing themselves of this "service use an agent that registers them in Khon Kaen,  They even do "fake" hotel bookings to get round TM30/90 day etc!!  I know of two Brits who boast about this in public. 

It disgusts me that they abuse the system this way and that it may possibly kill off any legitimate volunteer system in the future.

Lord - what a racket.  Thanks for the info.  That's enlightening.

[fangless]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

Yes, this is a very tiring comment.

"A pension only goes so far..." Is a comment I hear a lot in the farang bars, but those on TVF seem to be the exception to this.

If it was such a vast amount each month, they wouldn't be living here; is another comment I hear frequently.

'Stranded' tourists, remote workers, digital nomads etc, all bring in more than retirees. That's why the government doesn't care about bringing retirees out of the country back in yet.

Please identify which high rolling category you fit into please and what do you estimate your contribution is to the total Thailand GDP compared to us lesser mortals [in only your eyes of course]!

[2530Ubon]

17 minutes ago, connda said:

I'm suppose to believe that some millennial back-packer with a keyboard and up to their eye-balls in student-loan debt is bringing that same amount of money into Thailand and ejecting it into the Thai economy as foreign currency as Boomer retirees?

Really - you people are daft.  Have any of you bothered to research the generational breakdown of what segment of the populations actually has the wealth in places like the US (other than billionaires).
It happens to be the Boomers who are the current crop of retirees. 

Have you done any research - most of us are not backpackers. I'm closing in on 40 and consult for American companies working in IT. Here's some research;

According to initial survey results, 73.9% of digital nomads in Chiang Mai have a Bachelor’s degree or higher and 56.9% of have at least 11 years professional experience. 40.1% of respondents earn between 50,000 baht to 100,000 baht a month, and 37.8% earn between 100,000 baht to 500,000 baht per month while 4.1% boast earnings of more than 500,000 baht per month. In terms of employment and skills, the greatest percentages work in Software and Web Development (17.3%) followed by Marketing (13.7%), and the Business, Financial or Legal Professions (11.9%). Close behind, online English teachers account for another 9.7%. On average, digital nomads have spent 26,000 baht on visa services in the last 18 months.

 

And from the TOT;

 

"Mrs Srisuda said the agency also needs to extend the long-stay target from retirees to other groups with the potential to stay in Thailand for longer than one month.

"We're aiming for digital nomads and healthcare seekers. They are often younger and can work remotely from anywhere," she said. "Before the pandemic, seaside Thai destinations already welcomed a substantial amount of digital nomads. If we can provide safety measures, they will consider coming back again."

[fangless]

26 minutes ago, connda said:

Lord - what a racket.  Thanks for the info.  That's enlightening

I should have added that it is a 15month visa/extension after the agent has received the money not the standard 12month and NO visit to Imm.

[fangless]

39 minutes ago, connda said:

Retirees bring in a significant chunk of money into Thailand.  And they should be let back in asap.  End of story.

+1 and I think also many more of us would say the same..

 

[Ketyo]

So many people want to be victims in this "me too" world.

 

What about all the people who were stranded in Thailand when the lockdown started? They were desperate to get back to their home countries but were stranded. Headlines were full of stories about people stranded in Thailand and Cambodia and New Zealand and .....and their governments weren't laying on flights to get them home. So governments laid on flights to get their stranded citizens back home.

 

And now the headlines are full of people stranded at home who cant get back to Thailand.

 

Are they the same people? Some people want to be victims all their lives.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Ketyo

[fangless]

7 minutes ago, Ketyo said:

the government wasn't laying on flights to get them home

How could Thailand be responsible to fly people stranded in Thailand home if their home country has closed it's borders to them.

Nothing to do with Thailand-in that situation - all to do with the home country!

Edited October 19, 2020 by fangless

[bipper]

The fact is immigration in this country is so complicated they have absolutely no idea how to unravel it. Besides they have bigger fish to fry right now. Sad to say can't see these people getting a fair shout families or not.

Edited October 19, 2020 by bipper

[metisdead]

A post with unsubstantiated statistics has been removed as well as the ensuing bickering session. 

[Truth Will Set You Free]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

One such group are the large number of charitable volunteers who have striven to help Thailand in both official and semi-official capacities. Their help was courted and appreciated, now they feel unwanted, even discarded.

As much hatred over the years Thailand has been showing expats, what makes you think they would change during a time like this. I really hope the blindness of looking the other way is now coming to haunt you now.  
 

what their saying “No Money, No Honey”.

[fangless]

20 minutes ago, Truth Will Set You Free said:

As much hatred over the years Thailand has been showing expats, what makes you think they would change during a time like this. I really hope the blindness of looking the other way is now coming to haunt you now.  
 

what their saying “No Money, No Honey”.

What "hatred". 

In over 25 years of experiencing Thailand I have never encountered any hatred, in fact I have only found the exact opposite.

Edited October 19, 2020 by fangless

[kickstart]

2 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

The first question to ask is does Thailand need foreign volunteers?

 

i mean there is some problems to solve here in Thailand, but what are exactly

the problems that the Thai authorities or Thai private organisations can not handle

with Thai people?

 

If you look at the problem on this side, for the Thai authorities having to count on foreign volunteer from abroad

in Thailand to take care of Thai problems for the benefit of the Thai people is a huge lost of face for Thailand, Thai people

and particularly the Thai authorities

 

Yes Thailand does need volunteers ,that is how I first come to Thailand 25 years ago now ,complete with a 2-year visa and a pink ID card and 6k month salary, I was working with Thai dairy farmers trying to improve their milk quality ,they were 4-5 of us about the country doing the same job, a government back project 

Why could the Thai's not do it themselves ?, the main problem was the Thai lack good education and knowledge ,I knew more about dairy cows as a 17-year-old day release student than a Thai with their  degree,a recurring theme here on TV.it was not all rocket science just a simpley changing the milking routine helped, cleaning of all the milking equipment the right way helped. 

As for lose of face non where  I was, they were happy to take my advice, like I said it was a government back project , a lot  of farmers would not change their ways ,a friend of mine at one dairy co-op helped to increase the profit of his co-op ,by increasing the milk quality. 

I am still living in the same area ,and I still know some farmers ,some are still bodging away like they did then ,but some are taking on advice  and are doing all right .  

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, connda said:

We keep hearing that.  So point us to the statistics showing how little we contribute.

My guess is that the expat community as a whole who still reside in the country provide more in support of the Thai GDP than the hair-brained STV scheme is going to bring in over and equal amount of time.  Most of us are bringing upwards of 500T to 1M THB into the country in the form of foreign currency per year.  Given the entire community that isn't chump change. 

Thailand issued 80 000 retirments visas in 2018

i keep your number of 1 million thb\year bringing in the country

(imo it's much less than that, most of the retirees here are on a budget around 50000' months

hence the immigration requirment of 65000)

so 80 000 x 1 million= 80 billion thb

 

in 2018 the Thai GDP was 15 240 THB

 

so yes we can say the 80 billions (This number being the most optimist)

bring in the country by the retirees isn't chump change, you are right about it

but it's not an essential one, i am right about  it too

 

And the numbers are for 2018, for 2020 they are probably much worse than that

since the insurance requirment (A lot have left Thailand, unable to comply with the new rules)

Covid (A lot are unable to return here) and the natural extinction of an already aged population

(Not being remplaced in the same numbers by the newcomers)

[ruby1]

I invested 800,000b into a thai bank in 2019 just so I could obtain a O retirement Visa and stay in Thailand.

Now I am in the UK and waiting to return but "not allowed" but yet if I buy a O-A retirement Visa from UK i can return.

What is the reason behind this Money?

Why can't we return on our valid visa?

Has a O retirement Visa got Covis 19 written all over it?

Edited October 19, 2020 by ruby1

[T Lee]

6 hours ago, maddermax said:

The authorities are stupid. We retired expats are providing the bulk of funding for the country right now. 

Is this really true/accurate?  I know there's a bloody wave of Brits, Americans, and others residing here, but "the bulk of funding"???  Can anyone please elucidate the rest of us - what are the numbers?  I hear this claim often online and suspect it's the lie that if repeated enough is treated as truth.  Lots of money?  Sure, no doubt.  THE BULK OF FUNDING FOR THE COUNTRY?????   Facts, please, that's all I ask.

[sambum]

5 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

i am afraid you greatly overestimate the weight of the retired expats contribution to Thailand global gdp

Do you mean Thailand GDP or Global GDP? Never mind - pedantics!

 

Howsever, since Covid and the closing of borders and the banning of International flights, where I live, which is a tourist area, the expats are certainly doing their bit towards helping out the local economy. Due to the lack of tourists, many businesses would have gone under by now - and in fact many have, but the ones that survive do so mainly due to the patronage of expats, and the few tourists that are still here.

 

I have mentioned it before, but on average, one ex pat will put app 500,000 baht a year into the Thai economy. Now I know that expats numbers do not number millions (39 million+ tourists in 2019 according to TAT), but at the moment, while the powers that be i.e. the Gov't, TAT, etc are falling over themselves with one failed idea after about how to kick start the tourist economy, (which they have recently learned IS quite a sizeable chunk of Thailand's GDP - contrary to previous reports of single figures, and "not worth a lot in the bigger picture") the expats are out and about spending money in local businesses, helping the local economies, and not buying submarines or dishing out the contracts for building bridges!

 

I am not overestimating the ex pats' contribution to Thailand's GDP, but it would be nice to not have it's importance ignored or belittled - especially at the moment when sources of income are limited due to the impact of Covid-19.

 

And let's not forget that before Covid, the Government seemed to be going out of their way to make the visa process (for ex pat farangs in particular) as difficult as they could, literally forcing some to leave because of their inability to fulfil the requirements.

 

However, some of us are still here because of family, investments, property etc, and some of us are "Stranded" due to current legislation, but we are contributing to Thailand's economy, and that should be appreciated - not belittled:-

 

"BLACK EX PAT'S LIVES MONEY MATTERS!"????

Edited October 19, 2020 by sambum

[Bkktodd]

6 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

i am afraid you greatly overestimate the weight of the retired expats contribution to Thailand global gdp

Tell that to the family i support. 60,000b monthly total is a fair sum for services and living expenses tgat thailand benefits from with just me alone.  That 60k in turn becomes disposable income passed down to to other thai in other sectors.   My money affects all.  

[whaleboneman]

6 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

i am afraid you greatly overestimate the weight of the retired expats contribution to Thailand global gdp

very difficult to overestimate the weight of the retired expats.