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"The Stranded": Highlighting the plight of expats unable to return to Thailand; #3 Charity workers and volunteers


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5 hours ago, connda said:

I'd bet that the average US retiree is bringing in over 1M THB a year while reinvesting the remainder of the income in the US stock exchange.  Or they have income streams supplemented by an IRA and personal savings.

I'm suppose to believe that some millennial back-packer with a keyboard and up to their eye-balls in student-loan debt is bringing that same amount of money into Thailand and ejecting it into the Thai economy as foreign currency as Boomer retirees?

Really - you people are daft.  Have any of you bothered to research the generational breakdown of what segment of the populations actually has the wealth in places like the US (other than billionaires).
It happens to be the Boomers who are the current crop of retirees.  Yeah, we came here because money goes wayyy further.  For some reason ya'll think that means we're all dirt poor and would be living in HUD housing and eating on food stamps when we're not on the street panhandling for quarters.  Have you ever considered the number of people who simply don't want to deal with the baloney in the "home country" like property taxes, endless regulation, and an in-your-face nanny-state dictating you every move.  I've no property taxes, I don't need permits to build, and other than the hassle of immigration and an occasional roadblock, the government generally stays out of my and my wife's affairs and leaves us alone.  And - money goes further. 
"See - your poor!"
See - your daft. Bluster all you want.  Retirees bring in a significant chunk of money into Thailand.  And they should be let back in asap.  End of story.

Well said.  Agree 100% 

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I'm glad I had my eyes open and during my 11 visits to Thailand in the last 4 years I was smart enough to see this writing on the wall and decided no way will Thailand be my retirement destination.   In fact just like those who ridicule the expats who left Thailand and are now stranded i can say the same about all expats.  

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3 hours ago, T Lee said:

Is this really true/accurate?  I know there's a bloody wave of Brits, Americans, and others residing here, but "the bulk of funding"???  Can anyone please elucidate the rest of us - what are the numbers?  I hear this claim often online and suspect it's the lie that if repeated enough is treated as truth.  Lots of money?  Sure, no doubt.  THE BULK OF FUNDING FOR THE COUNTRY?????   Facts, please, that's all I ask.

Google is your friend

the number for 2018 was 80 000 ''retirment'' visas issued by Thailand

so it's less than 100 000 foreign retirees for a Thai population of 70 millions

the ''realist'' number is around 500 000 thb\year bring in the country by each foreign retirees 

it s a total of 40 billions THB\year for this group

the Thailand GDP was 15 240 billions THB in 2018

you are welcome

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2 hours ago, Bkktodd said:

Tell that to the family i support. 60,000b monthly total is a fair sum for services and living expenses tgat thailand benefits from with just me alone.  That 60k in turn becomes disposable income passed down to to other thai in other sectors.   My money affects all.  

I understand it's a lot of money for you and your family and i know it's important

but from the govermemnt point of view the contribution to the Thai economy from

this group isn't important.

It's something but not enough to put in place specifics actions.

 

Plus even if the foreigners aren't physically in Thailand, the money flow still arrives in Thailand

via western union, transferwise and so on. 

 

If everybody will stop to send money from abroad on a regular basis to her wife\girlfriend

the baht should be less strong and the authorities could be a little bit more concerned.

 

Of course for obvious reasons this will not going to happen, and everybody know it

hence the statu quo

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8 hours ago, connda said:

It happens to be the Boomers who are the current crop of retirees.  Yeah, we came here because money goes wayyy further.  For some reason ya'll think that means we're all dirt poor and would be living in HUD housing and eating on food stamps when we're not on the street panhandling for quarters.  Have you ever considered the number of people who simply don't want to deal with the baloney in the "home country" like property taxes, endless regulation, and an in-your-face nanny-state dictating you every move.  I've no property taxes, I don't need permits to build, and other than the hassle of immigration and an occasional roadblock, the government generally stays out of my and my wife's affairs and leaves us alone.  And - money goes further.

I am not exactly in the million baht a year club,  and i retired here when i was quite young............... but the reasons you state are spot

on.    Just one you left out:   to get away from some types of the men (and women) that have been coming to retire in the more recent past.     You ain't gonna find Rumak hanging out at the Rotary club, talking about my stock portfolio.  i can tell you that much.  

 

When i need a dose of "western attitudes".........  i park my honda dream and sneak onto TV  for a few minutes

 

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11 hours ago, connda said:

I'd have more sympathy for these programs, but honestly?  When I see so called volunteer organizations charging "volunteers" significant sums of money on order to volunteer and freely give of their time and energy - I want to throw up.

So now a "volunteer", if allowed to return, will need to run the Thai regulatory gauntlet, pay for all the additional charges ranging from special insurance to special airline fares to special medical tests to special quarantine hotels, and then once they arrive shell out the equivalent of $200 to $1000 per week for the special opportunity to volunteer? 
Really?  What a racket.  How do I start my own?

Look at it on the bright side. Raising the bar to entry is keeping out garden variety sex predators that precovid only needed to scrape together $375 for a horribly routed flight no sane person would take to come "volunteer" or "mentor."  Case in point the perv that is a crossing guard for a school near here.  Why does he wear sunglasses even when its cloudy???  Definitely don't want  guys like that in Thailand and a few extra hoops to jump through keeps them out.

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12 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

According to initial survey results, 73.9% of digital nomads in Chiang Mai have a Bachelor’s degree or higher and 56.9% of have at least 11 years professional experience. 40.1% of respondents earn between 50,000 baht to 100,000 baht a month, and 37.8% earn between 100,000 baht to 500,000 baht per month while 4.1% boast earnings of more than 500,000 baht per month.

Working on what kind of a visa?  How many here working on a business visa.  How many are gaming the system to stay here and "work" outside of officially condoned channels.  How many bringing a significance amount of those funds into Thailand, putting those funds into banks, business, and into the Thai tax coffers.?  How many building houses, businesses, and families? 
Nomad Defined: "A person with no fixed residence who roams about; a wanderer.", so people who don't sink roots and have no particular reason to sink money into the economy where they are temporarily residing.
Or

Have they just found a place where the funds goes way furthers (one of the same reason retirees are here), they don't have to report taxes or pay taxes to Thailand on their earned income (honestly, who knows what they make?), unlike retirees and guys who have families here...Nomads don't need to meet financial requirement to stay.  Nomad - hang out on a tourist or Ed visa and game the system until it's time to move on. No allegiance, no skin in the game, and don't tell me they contribute more to the benefit of the Thai economy than those here on retirement, marriage, and legitimate business visas. Self serving is more like it.

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23 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I don't think the Thais are being deliberately obstructive, it is more that they have so little realisation of what is going on that they can't coordinate themselves properly to sort the mess out.

Good luck to everyone who is stranded.

I agree...and it could also be that the Thai authorities have a lot on their plate, what with the pandemic and political unrest, and the problems of foreign volunteers and missionaries entering Thailand are not high on their priority list.

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8 hours ago, Oliver Holzerfilled said:

Look at it on the bright side. Raising the bar to entry is keeping out garden variety sex predators that precovid only needed to scrape together $375 for a horribly routed flight no sane person would take to come "volunteer" or "mentor."  Case in point the perv that is a crossing guard for a school near here.  Why does he wear sunglasses even when its cloudy???  Definitely don't want  guys like that in Thailand and a few extra hoops to jump through keeps them out.

Do you seriously think a sex predator is someone not having enough money?

As for the ''perv'' near the school, if you have any real reason to suspect him

you shouldn't hesitate to report him to the police, If it's just the sunglasses 

well maybe his eyes are sensitive to lights, or he thinks sunglasses give him more authority in the allure

why not to ask to him the real reason?

Edited by kingofthemountain
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4 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I agree...and it could also be that the Thai authorities have a lot on their plate, what with the pandemic and political unrest, and the problems of foreign volunteers and missionaries entering Thailand are not high on their priority list.

excuse my cynicism ... but more likely what is on their plate is directly related to how they can further their own financial gain and position of power .      same everywhere

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I have lived in Thailand for almost 20 years.  I have been on a Retirement Visa the last few years.  I had to go to the USA to clear up my husbands estate in March this year.  I have a return stamp in my passport.  I cannot get back into Thailand to my home.  I have Thai people who depend on me in Thailand.  I have never had the virus.  Stay safe..wear masks.   No one from the embassies wants to listen or they say they do not know.  My Visa is up in February.  I need to go home.  Is there help out there?

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On 10/20/2020 at 10:06 PM, jbinthai said:

I have lived in Thailand for almost 20 years.  I have been on a Retirement Visa the last few years.  I had to go to the USA to clear up my husbands estate in March this year.  I have a return stamp in my passport.  I cannot get back into Thailand to my home.  I have Thai people who depend on me in Thailand.  I have never had the virus.  Stay safe..wear masks.   No one from the embassies wants to listen or they say they do not know.  My Visa is up in February.  I need to go home.  Is there help out there?

very sad story and we expats as a group wish we could help but this forum is the best way to try to get the government to listen

 

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On 10/20/2020 at 10:06 PM, jbinthai said:

I have lived in Thailand for almost 20 years.  I have been on a Retirement Visa the last few years.  I had to go to the USA to clear up my husbands estate in March this year.  I have a return stamp in my passport.  I cannot get back into Thailand to my home.  I have Thai people who depend on me in Thailand.  I have never had the virus.  Stay safe..wear masks.   No one from the embassies wants to listen or they say they do not know.  My Visa is up in February.  I need to go home.  Is there help out there?

There is no such thing as a "retirement visa" in Thailand. I suspect what you had was either a Non-Immigrant O or Non-Immigrant OA visa for entry to Thailand. The visa was "used (cancelled)," when you entered Thailand...and you likely qualified to extend it for "retirement" purposes for a year. You have probably been extending your permission to stay annually since then. Therefore, your legal presence in Thailand is based on "extensions of stays" for 1 year periods...not on having a visa. That is also why you need a Re-Entry Permit when you leave the country...because you have no visa to enter Thailand. The information the embassies and consulates are giving you is correct...foreigners with re-entry permits are not allowed to enter Thailand at the present time. You may want to start over and apply for a new NI-O or NI-OA visa from the nearest Thai consulate or embassy.

Edited by Pattaya Spotter
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On 10/19/2020 at 7:47 PM, Ketyo said:

So many people want to be victims in this "me too" world.

 

What about all the people who were stranded in Thailand when the lockdown started? They were desperate to get back to their home countries but were stranded. Headlines were full of stories about people stranded in Thailand and Cambodia and New Zealand and .....and their governments weren't laying on flights to get them home. So governments laid on flights to get their stranded citizens back home.

 

And now the headlines are full of people stranded at home who cant get back to Thailand.

 

Are they the same people? Some people want to be victims all their lives.

 

The above while a generalization is so true.  I too can remember so many expat scary nellies which could hardly wait to get out of Thailand, many foreign embassies had to organize private charter planes and book reservations -and in part sponsor this "get them home" by all means. Presently, so many can't wait to get back here and complain if they can't, just now.  The cards turned on them, it was/is safe to stay here and far more health risky to those whom went back home.  

 

Also consider the expat community which spend money here...this money circulates via the multiplier effect as is know in economics. So a Bill Baht spent, snowballs in fact many times over.

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7 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

There is no such thing as a "retirement visa" in Thailand. I suspect what you had was either a Non-Immigrant O or Non-Immigrant OA visa for entry to Thailand. The visa was "used" when entered Thailand and you likely qualified to extend it for "retirement" purposes for a year. You have probably been extending your permission to stay annually since then. Therefore, your legal presence in Thailand is based on "extensions of stays" for 1 year periods...not on having a visa. That is also why you need a Re-Entry Permit when you leave the country...because you have no visa to enter Thailand. The information the embassies and consulates are giving you is correct...foreigners with re-entry permits are not permitted to enter Thailand at the present time. You may want to start over and apply for a new NI-O or NI-OA visa from the nearest Thai consulate or embassy.

I gave your post a 'Like' for the clear and correct explanation on the difference between a  Visa and an Extension of stay.  Thanks for that.

But I wonder about the last paragraph you wrote...

The websites of the Embassies/Consulates do NOT indicate that Re-Entry Permits are not permitted.  They state that you need a 'valid Visa'.  Of course if they are using the term 'Visa' correctly, you are right.  But I am not so sure about that given that in-country Immigration Offices also often refer to Extensions of Stay as Visa, so it is well possible that Embassies/Consulates who are only familiar with the Visas that they issue, use the term in a broader sense and that it includes still valid permissions to stay of Visa that already expired.  

I guess we have to wait for a report of someone on a Re-Entry Permit protected Extension of Stay of his Visa, that was provided a COE.

And even with such a case it would not mean that every Embassy/Consulate would use that interpretation...

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We are just now globally entering the darkest period of this CV19 health fiasco. As over the next few weeks-or say 2 months both in the US and EU new cases will/keep sky rocketing (but death % rates have stabilized).  Yet, its a matter of weeks until a vaccine or a cure or likely both, come on stream. This will change the sentiment for the better because even if its not widely available to say until Q2 2021, it will signal the light at the end of the tunnel and things here and elsewhere will get less paranoid.

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24 minutes ago, thaistocks said:

 

The above while a generalization is so true.  I too can remember so many expat scary nellies which could hardly wait to get out of Thailand, many foreign embassies had to organize private charter planes and book reservations -and in part sponsor this "get them home" by all means. Presently, so many can't wait to get back here and complain if they can't, just now.  The cards turned on them, it was/is safe to stay here and far more health risky to those whom went back home.  

 

Also consider the expat community which spend money here...this money circulates via the multiplier effect as is know in economics. So a Bill Baht spent, snowballs in fact many times over.

Maybe their governments can organize ex-patriation flights back to Thailand.

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All those with valid visa's and reentry permits, that have not been allowed to return, need to file lawsuits in their countries and in Thailand now that they have allowed Chinese tourists with this new visa.

 

Pressure needs to be put on Thailand. This is in my opinion illegal.

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18 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I gave your post a 'Like' for the clear and correct explanation on the difference between a  Visa and an Extension of stay.  Thanks for that.

But I wonder about the last paragraph you wrote...

The websites of the Embassies/Consulates do NOT indicate that Re-Entry Permits are not permitted.  They state that you need a 'valid Visa'.  Of course if they are using the term 'Visa' correctly, you are right.  But I am not so sure about that given that in-country Immigration Offices also often refer to Extensions of Stay as Visa, so it is well possible that Embassies/Consulates who are only familiar with the Visas that they issue, use the term in a broader sense and that it includes still valid permissions to stay of Visa that already expired.  

I guess we have to wait for a report of someone on a Re-Entry Permit protected Extension of Stay of his Visa, that was provided a COE.

And even with such a case it would not mean that every Embassy/Consulate would use that interpretation...

Yes, the question you pose is an interesting one. The Re-Entry Permits are valid until the extension of stay expires...unfortunately, the entry restrictions are going on so long that many retirees are seeing their stay extensions/re-entry permits expire. I foresee many having to start the process over again with a new visa.

Edited by Pattaya Spotter
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12 minutes ago, KhunKenAP said:

All those with valid visa's and reentry permits, that have not been allowed to return, need to file lawsuits in their countries and in Thailand now that they have allowed Chinese tourists with this new visa.

 

Pressure needs to be put on Thailand. This is in my opinion illegal.

Good luck with that strategy 55555555555555555

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51 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

There is no such thing as a "retirement visa" in Thailand. I suspect what you had was either a Non-Immigrant O or Non-Immigrant OA visa for entry to Thailand. The visa was "used (cancelled)," when you entered Thailand...and you likely qualified to extend it for "retirement" purposes for a year. You have probably been extending your permission to stay annually since then. Therefore, your legal presence in Thailand is based on "extensions of stays" for 1 year periods...not on having a visa. That is also why you need a Re-Entry Permit when you leave the country...because you have no visa to enter Thailand. The information the embassies and consulates are giving you is correct...foreigners with re-entry permits are not allowed to enter Thailand at the present time. You may want to start over and apply for a new NI-O or NI-OA visa from the nearest Thai consulate or embassy.

I do wish people that need a visa, extensions etc would stop saying that Thailand is their "home". It's not. One does not need a visa to go "home". Unless one has PR or citizenship one is an alien.

 

Also, seems that some think that they are a special case because they have dependents or spend money in Thailand. They are not. They are just one among thousands all wanting to be singled out for special treatment. Not going to happen, IMO.

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