"The Stranded": Highlighting the plight of expats unable to return to Thailand: #4 Injustice for property owners

[Sydneyboy1]

Mr and Mrs L and M are well-off retirees from the Netherlands aged 74 and 63.

"We have lived in Thailand for almost 15 years and own a house (not the land) valued at 30 million Euro.

 

I would love to see this house. At the current exchange rates this is a 1.1 billion thb house. And that's not including the cost of the land. I think Mr. L exaggerates toooo much. 

 

[Migrosmarket]

5 hours ago, mike1967 said:

In my 11 years of being in Thailand, the one thing I've learnt is always leave yourself in a situation where you can leave in 30 minutes. Obviously many will disagree but Covid kind of proves my point. I'm waiting to get back but the only thing I have there is my motorbike which is stored at friends house.

Precisely.

 

Sadly most of the stories show how naive these people are. They are foreigners.... or more bluntly aliens.... and have a visa which is no more than a temporary permission to stay.

 

A change of government could see ALL visas revoked. This is a reality. Unlikely but possible. 

 

Most people ignore the reality of being a visa holder. You have fewer rights and no security. Naturally most countries want foreigners to contribute to the economy and care less about them than their own nationals.

 

My view is NEVER sell up and move lock, stock and (two) smoking barrels to a foreign country. Never give up your original life, bank accounts, property, healthcare etc..

[sletraveler]

I don’t sympathize with the government’s reticence, paranoia and general idiocy in this matter.  I was very close to diverting to the US to take care of some business in March. I would still be stuck there had I done so but at the time I thought there was absolutely no way the lockdown nonsense would go past September. A reasonable but wrong assumption.  

[Migrosmarket]

4 hours ago, Dogbarker said:

 I read these stories and it could be well be me ..My wife and I are stranded in the UK as we came back for the birth of our grandchild. Big long term investments in Thailand .  We have 1.6m  for our visa sitting dormant in a  bank plus our  pension lump sum spending money .. an MU7 idle and a house ingested with geckos no doubt. I do not want to put more money I go a bank a count I have enough invested. Out visa extension expires in February .  After that we are supposed to start again ? With CM immigration no way . .. get a tourist visa when new normal starts Sell up move country and start again  elsewhere... I have property but seems if I buy a new property I can come in .. yeah for sure fair  indeed.. I am pleased to say I am probabaly fortunate to be able to live comfortably in the UK until this is sorted ...

 

Fortunate or planned sensibly to have resources in the UK as a backup?

 

When you come back.... come back on an O visa 90 day then extend by reason of retirement..... easy process. Just done it myself as "stuck" here.

[mike1967]

22 minutes ago, Migrosmarket said:

Precisely.

 

Sadly most of the stories show how naive these people are. They are foreigners.... or more bluntly aliens.... and have a visa which is no more than a temporary permission to stay.

 

A change of government could see ALL visas revoked. This is a reality. Unlikely but possible. 

 

Most people ignore the reality of being a visa holder. You have fewer rights and no security. Naturally most countries want foreigners to contribute to the economy and care less about them than their own nationals.

 

My view is NEVER sell up and move lock, stock and (two) smoking barrels to a foreign country. Never give up your original life, bank accounts, property, healthcare etc..

Spot on buddy. Couldn't have worded it better.

[Rimmer]

A sweeping generalization post has been removed

[JustAnotherHun]

Though I understand the frustrations of locked-out Condo owners - I'm stranded in Germany too - , it was always very clear that owning a property does not give you a residency. So why should they be treated differently to other O-holders?

[PEE TEE]

Its horrible to be somewhere you not happy with and having assets in Thailand the heart yearns to return to the place that makes you feel at home . The one big problem is the Thai  authorities just don't care. I hope they can prove me wrong 

[userabcd]

3 hours ago, malthebluff said:

Time to move on and find a country that actually wants you. Yes covid is bad but it feels like the thai government ate just using this for a excuss to get rid or stop foreigners. It's such a pity that just a few thai can control all thai and yes it's all about money rich getting richer and poor getting nothing 

Oh woe is me.

 

The Thais are trying to keep covid out and their Thai citizens safe, no more no less.

 

Lots of foreigners before coming to Thailand knew the temporary rules which facilitates ones temporary stay and can be changed at any time by the Thais, the risk is there for all to see.

 

A bit strange many foreigners coming on temporary stays to Thailand, stay a little while and then a little later think Thailand must adapt their rules to facilitate their permanent stay in Thailand.

 

Imagine if one had not travelled out of Thailands borders just before or during covid, all those would safe and still temporarily resident in Thailand in their homes.

Edited October 20, 2020 by userabcd

[Bkktodd]

17 hours ago, JAFO said:

While I cannot disagree that other countries are handling this better but for years I have read and heard a lot about "They do not care, all they want is your money".  I guess I would ask " Why should they care?"  I do not mean that in a harsh way but what do you really expect them to do?  I would never expect a country to care about me and the folks that go on and on about how much money they spend here shouldn't really matter and clearly doesn't.  I work and live here and pay Thai taxes, own a home etc and I do not expect special privileges. Same as when I lived in the states. Why would I expect special privileges?  I think many foreigners have a much higher opinion of their worth here.   

 

This is a mess and has brought out the worst in many people and governments.  I have a few friends in the states who had family members die due to C19 related complications and they could not attend their funeral. Does the country not care or are they holding fast to the C19 controls in place?

 

Again I feel for the folks and believe they should have a group reviewing requests submitted wanting to return back to family, friends and their homes. Clearly its not a priority.  

At least in the states and many countries worldwide you can get residency. I was married to an esaan lady in sisaket for 14years. Spent millions of baht on property and vehicles BUT still was deemed a visitor to the Kindom.  

[userabcd]

7 minutes ago, Bkktodd said:

At least in the states and many countries worldwide you can get residency. I was married to an esaan lady in sisaket for 14years. Spent millions of baht on property and vehicles BUT still was deemed a visitor to the Kindom.  

Thailand also has rules how to achieve residency.

[Bkktodd]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Do you seriously think that foreign retirees with a condo in Pattaya should be treated the same as a Thai citizen? I suggest you look at how Thai retirees are made welcome in the UK or USA, etc. 16 million baht for a start just to get a visa! Take a look at how other countries are refusing entry to tourists, it's not just Thailand. And actually, all these so called home owners who can't get back 'home' did leave of their own free will. There is a global pandemic, stop your whining and accept it. I lost 66,000 baht because of cancelling my trip to the UK in March and accept that. 

Thai banks have internet banking -  simple. 

It was the Taksin government that made things hard for foreigners; incresing visa fee from 500 baht to 1900 baht. Increasing Permanent Residency from 9,000 to 190,000 baht. This current government is doing a great job regarding foreigner rights compared to that one. Naturalization is so much easier now than the past with a change of law to make those men married to a Thai not need to get PR first and the time has been slashed form average 10 years to 2-3 years.

 

If a thai married an American...that person can easily get a Green card  leading to citizenship for monies amounting to immigration lawyer fees to make the process easier.  Expats are treated better in Ph, Cambodia, costa rica, Brazil...  its amazing the negativity armchair expats still in Thailand deplay for fellow expats stuck outside the country for various reasons.  

[Bkktodd]

3 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Thailand also has rules how to achieve residency.

Makes the STV 25 steps look like childs play.  Ill go to a lawyer and legally change my name to Mr Lee.  Cut out a few steps for sounding chinese ????

[Peterphuket]

May I call it criminall what the Thai government is doing to all these people?

Especially the pensioner who want to spend their last years in Thailand, have sold their entire "have and hold" and leave there country there born.

Yes I can.

[karunasup]

It is still a feudal mind-set and management culture...a govt bureaucrat and their rules are meant to control people, not make it easy for them; the "officiaal" is not there to serve the public, rather the public has to bow down and serve them; interpretation of rules depends on each official, who can then extract xxx for a favourable interpretation;  you have to pay extra to get anything done;  loyalty to the ruler is what counts above all else. 

[Neeranam]

16 minutes ago, Bkktodd said:

If a thai married an American...that person can easily get a Green card  leading to citizenship for monies amounting to immigration lawyer fees to make the process easier.  Expats are treated better in Ph, Cambodia, costa rica, Brazil...  its amazing the negativity armchair expats still in Thailand deplay for fellow expats stuck outside the country for various reasons.  

If a US person married a Thai, they can easily get citizenship, without any green card. No lawyer is needed and only costs 5,000 baht. If a female, don't even have to work.

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

That's the first thing I would do if I had to go back to the UK. Use social media to let everyone know about the unelected "PM" and his soldier "politicians" and their treatment of both Thais and Westerners, particularly Westerners.

What makes you think that there would be the slightest interest in the UK? They have other concerns to worry about of greater importance.As to Thailand's politics by international standards there is little to complain about, let alone justifying foreign countries going out on a preaching limb.I say that as a strong supporter of the protest movement.But we need to keep matters in proportion.

[micmichd]

29 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

May I call it criminall what the Thai government is doing to all these people?

Especially the pensioner who want to spend their last years in Thailand, have sold their entire "have and hold" and leave there country there born.

Yes I can.

I left Germany last not least because Germany was criminal. 

[NoshowJones]

4 minutes ago, jayboy said:

What makes you think that there would be the slightest interest in the UK? They have other concerns to worry about of greater importance.As to Thailand's politics by international standards there is little to complain about, let alone justifying foreign countries going out on a preaching limb.I say that as a strong supporter of the protest movement.But we need to keep matters in proportion.

"What makes you think that there would be the slightest interest in the UK? I was referring to other western countries also, not just the UK. ie, I would never have come to live in Thailand if I had known about all these coups, anyone with any sense knows that soldiers with their military education will never be politicians.

[metisdead]

An offensive troll post has been removed. 

[sambum]

7 hours ago, rupert the bear said:

its about time the embassies got involved or perhaps  we reciprocated,in all matters.what needs to happen is racist greed control needs to be reigned in.in all western countries thais with property/ visas can return or be allowed back and forth to the same extent the locals can.property holders spouses etc.so if this isnt reciprocated do something about it.we are always being preached to from our pc govts about discrimination and this is clear cut.so clearly act.

Is the "Shift" key on your computer broken? 

[Peterphuket]

44 minutes ago, micmichd said:

I left Germany last not least because Germany was criminal. 

The whole EU!!

[Dickp]

Like me.  The only reason I'm here is because I married a Thai lady 39 years ago and Promise her once I retired I would bring her home to be close to her family.  That was 29 years ago, and though time things have changed and not for the good of the people or expats. We raised our daughter and  she now a Doctor  and lives in the stats. We have spent our savings in a house, cars and other house whole related assets. Without the family ties I'd be out of here. Had I known what would happen once I moved here I would never done it. Hindsight sit is always better then Foresight. We could have did all the same things in the States, and just made visits here, and then returned too a turn home.

My suggestion for anyone considering getting involve in living in Thailand, Don't. Go elsewhere.  This country has absolutely no respect for Foreigner-Thai families.  And retirees?  Well, just look at how "welcome" expats are.  How many of expats who live here for years are now locked-out but their assets are locked-in?  Any potential retirees?  Give that some deep consideration before you sink money into money in Thailand.  Your at best a third-class non-citizen and always will be and not necessarily wanted here either.

[mpyre]

20 hours ago, JAFO said:

While I cannot disagree that other countries are handling this better but for years I have read and heard a lot about "They do not care, all they want is your money".  I guess I would ask " Why should they care?"  I do not mean that in a harsh way but what do you really expect them to do?  I would never expect a country to care about me and the folks that go on and on about how much money they spend here shouldn't really matter and clearly doesn't.  I work and live here and pay Thai taxes, own a home etc and I do not expect special privileges. Same as when I lived in the states. Why would I expect special privileges?  I think many foreigners have a much higher opinion of their worth here.   

 

This is a mess and has brought out the worst in many people and governments.  I have a few friends in the states who had family members die due to C19 related complications and they could not attend their funeral. Does the country not care or are they holding fast to the C19 controls in place?

 

Again I feel for the folks and believe they should have a group reviewing requests submitted wanting to return back to family, friends and their homes. Clearly its not a priority.  

Governments everywhere treat people like package donkeys, and nothing more. Pay your taxes and fees, and shut the <deleted>$k up. Some governments are marginally better than others, but in the end we are nothing more than serfs. 

[Seeall]

22 hours ago, JAFO said:

Tough times indeed. Thailand has taken a very strong approach to keeping the C 19 out but should have a task force to review cases based on the very things most of these folks are having to deal with. The people stories above show that they are not tourists.  I can see near term keeping the masses of tourists out but the property owners, folks with families etc should be allowed back in without question. They should comply with the 14 day quarantine then be on their way.

 

Sadly its a mess all over the world. Every country is trying to manage it as they see fit. While I will not point blame at Thailand's approach I do heavily question their lack of professionalism towards folks who have a stake here in some way and just want to return home.

Its RIDICOULOUS how on one side the Gov really messes it up letting foreign soldiers out shopping, VIP (thai hiso) and all the rest run about because they cant possibly be infected because they are special..!!

Then on the other hand lock out families that are fine with the 14 day Q ....  what kind of non thinking 2 year old logic is that?

[Seeall]

8 hours ago, rupert the bear said:

its about time the embassies got involved or perhaps  we reciprocated,in all matters.what needs to happen is racist greed control needs to be reigned in.in all western countries thais with property/ visas can return or be allowed back and forth to the same extent the locals can.property holders spouses etc.so if this isnt reciprocated do something about it.we are always being preached to from our pc govts about discrimination and this is clear cut.so clearly act.

Naa, they dont care about their own people.... only their pockets..... only way for your cause to work is to hit em in the pockets...

[barney42bb]

9 hours ago, chicowoodduck said:

Well, as I am fond of telling my friends.....Do not buy anything in Thailand, rent your home, car, get a coin operated girl friend if you must and you will be more than happy in the long run.....????????????????????????????????????????

Exemplary advice that many...and and a lot more will never heed.

 

Remember also.

 

Thailand like any other nation is not The World...Foreigners have Zero Rights.

 

At best the most you will achieve, is being a tolerated guest, that can be shown the door for no reason, at any time during your stay.

[Seeall]

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Why do you need to close your account? 

 

Why can't you use your debit card? 

 

There are easy ways to get your money to you in another country, assuming you have Internet banking

Sounds like BS to me...

[connda]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The thai government is much better than other governments when allowing retirees live here with ease and other people too. 

Lord, you live in a bubble of your own imagination.

[Dogbarker]

5 hours ago, Migrosmarket said:

Fortunate or planned sensibly to have resources in the UK as a backup?

 

When you come back.... come back on an O visa 90 day then extend by reason of retirement..... easy process. Just done it myself as "stuck" here.

Sensible I spend "summer"in the UK and am prepared to spend either place  and leave a a house empty when I travel. .. hopefully I can do something simple but may do it at Bangkok rather than Chiang Mai where we also have a condo ....