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Builders contract, build in your name, Tessaban concerns


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Good day all:

 

Like to canvass the community about a home building issue.

 

Consisely:

 

Bought land in wifes name, registered usufruct on same day at land office. Used local Lawyer, all in order.

 

Legally married, together over a decade but just formailzed marriage via certification in my Amphur. Was post land buy and Usufruct registration. Usufruct in Provincial database lists us married.

 

Found builder and signed contract to build a house. I had them put it in my name, originally they put wifes name down. At that point they were a bit hesitant...I said use my nane, all paperwork is in order, I assumed I can sign contract to build....I am paying and have Usufruct in place.

 

In Thailand over 15 years now, on both work and "retirement" visas. Currently on retirement visa.

 

Question please. Anyone have familiarity witu such a set up, and were you able to proceed with registration at the Tessaban?

 

We live near the village Head, and have had good relations with him and Tessaban/neighbours since first day, no dramas.

 

We found a builder and signed contracrt, plans done, team on site and ready to go, and then I am told about a contract issue.....

The Head said today he could approve the application to build immediately, if contract was in wifes name - but if it is in my name there is a process that could take up to 12 months and may not finally be approved.

 

Is anyone familiar with this contract issue ?

 

Cheers for reading such a long post, lol

 

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I have a permit to build in my name. I've had three different yellow books. My current yellow book shows my adopted adult daughter as "master of the house" and I am listed as "border'. My previous yel

You can/should make a superficies agreement, which allows you to be owner of a building on the land – however, you still don't own the land under the building. but the usufruct might secure that part

The OP should seek a Thai lawyers legal opinion.   Then, get a second Thai lawyers legal opinion.

Wouldn't it be two different things, one is an application to build a house subject to building codes, zoning etc, the other is a commercial contract between you and a builder. Why would the application have anything to do with who is paying who to build the structure.

What does your original lawyer say ?

 

I presume you want the contract in your name so the structure is yours, (I have never really understood what that achieves unless its a portable house) but as its an asset acquired during marriage, wouldn't that make it 50% hers anyway ? 

Is there a possibility of doing the contract in your wifes name then she transfers ownership after its built.

Edited by Peterw42
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8 minutes ago, kamalabob2 said:

I have a permit to build in my name. I've had three different yellow books. My current yellow book shows my adopted adult daughter as "master of the house" and I am listed as "border'. My previous yellow book had my wife as master. A first yellow book had a relative listed since it was a different city at his house where I "lived".  The permit to build is predicated by the house plans being professional. I have the PEA in my name. I have the PWA in my name. I have internet and previously land line telephone in my name. None of this was a challenge in anyway in Satuk, Buriram. No bribes ever. No delay on the permit to build. My name on the contract with a home builder. My name on the approved house plans as owner.  See attached house plan listin gowner of home in Satuk, Buriram Thailand. Foreigners can own a home in Thailand. Home owner insurance in my name. Insurance company pays into my bank account on claims. 

https://www.buriramhome.com/buriram-architect-house-floor-plans/

 

It does sound like the OP is being scammed.

Interested to know why you mention yellow book as they are nothing to do with ownership of land or structure, you can get a yellow book for a property you are renting . and wouldn't Thais be listed in the blue book for the property

 

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As you speak it will not work. This is something you need to take up with the land and transport department. They are the only ones that can split up land and house between you and your wife. Has nothing to do with what stands on the building contract. As long as you have no paper that the building is yours you can not sign for building, as well as you will not get a name on something that do not already exist.

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1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

 

It does sound like the OP is being scammed.

Interested to know why you mention yellow book as they are nothing to do with ownership of land or structure, you can get a yellow book for a property you are renting . and wouldn't Thais be listed in the blue book for the property

 

Peter/Bob 

Thanks for the replies. The architect plans are in my name. The motivation to do it as registered in my name is to ease any future paperwork if we plan to sell and a foreigner is interested....get all the drama covered now. Not a mobile home so no intent to ever move it...mind you it will sit one metre off the ground so it is feasible.

I have a yellow book for a condo I own. I guess an advantage of building in my name is I could ger a yellow book here...good again in terms of easing future resale to a foreigner, mind you Peters comment SDounds like I could get a yellow book just by having a usufruct. To me its approaching an academic / respect issue (respect too intense a word, but no alternative springs to mind).  I feel by law I can certainly have the contract to build in my name, ao at a loss as to why this is an issue? And village Head is a nieghbour as I mentioned and we seemed to get on well, ahuch makes it more puzzling, hebce checking to see what other experiences are out there.

Appreciate all the input.

Cheers

 

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18 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

As you speak it will not work. This is something you need to take up with the land and transport department. They are the only ones that can split up land and house between you and your wife. Has nothing to do with what stands on the building contract. As long as you have no paper that the building is yours you can not sign for building, as well as you will not get a name on something that do not already exist.

Mattzon, thanks for the input. Sounds like a catch 22 in that...which for sure I have encountered here. Thing is I have a registered usufruct, which does efgectively split land ownership and usage, and grants me the right to do on the property as I please for the period of my natural life...so this issue seens fundamental to that and if this xant be done, then what value does the usufruct hold and why bother doing it...that is sort of what puzzles me.

Thanks for the input

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22 minutes ago, kuma said:

Mattzon, thanks for the input. Sounds like a catch 22 in that...which for sure I have encountered here. Thing is I have a registered usufruct, which does efgectively split land ownership and usage, and grants me the right to do on the property as I please for the period of my natural life...so this issue seens fundamental to that and if this xant be done, then what value does the usufruct hold and why bother doing it...that is sort of what puzzles me.

Thanks for the input

Yes, It´s will surely do. The good thing is that you have a usufruct that will give you the right to live in the place as long as you live or wish. That will also make it easier for you  to split the house and the land in two deeds at a later stage. However, some offices will agree to that and some will not. It will also depend on the piece of land, but please do not ask me how they will look at that. Have no clue.- 🙂 

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32 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The OP should seek a Thai lawyers legal opinion.

 

Then, get a second Thai lawyers legal opinion.

Cheers, indeed I have a lawyer and will engage him Monday for his counsel...trying to better understand the whole landscape, as I am not sure if engaging a lawyer to help would be deemed good business, or an affront. I want to move along at an easy pace, but builders are starting so need a conclusion relatively soon. To me it seems the law is gray on fhis, like so much, and it is individual preference that takes precedence by jurisdiction. Need to find the fine line between being seen as pushy, or being a push over. 

Cheers for the input

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26 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, It´s will surely do. The good thing is that you have a usufruct that will give you the right to live in the place as long as you live or wish. That will also make it easier for you  to split the house and the land in two deeds at a later stage. However, some offices will agree to that and some will not. It will also depend on the piece of land, but please do not ask me how they will look at that. Have no clue.- 🙂 

My thoughts exactly, the usufruct should make this a turn key event. To be honest, totally blindsided by this...it was the last step I could think of being complex. This amphur has very few foreigners and perhaps none have ever tried this process, hence the reluctance. As mentioned above, will confer with a lawyer Monday. Hope to not have to use him,  but maybe that is the intent ... Fee generation?

Happy Saturday

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I have a house built with my name on the building permit and my signature on the construction agreement. But my daughter owns the land it's built on. We also have a usufruct agreement. But out in the sticks, in Trad province, the only thing that interests them is the ownership of the land. You can argue til the cows come home that you are the house owner. They just don't want to know. Almost impossible to get a yellow book. Immigration demanding to talk to my daughter, and fining her for not registering me on TM30. In my experience, the hassle is never ending.

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18 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I have a house built with my name on the building permit and my signature on the construction agreement. But my daughter owns the land it's built on. We also have a usufruct agreement. But out in the sticks, in Trad province, the only thing that interests them is the ownership of the land. You can argue til the cows come home that you are the house owner. They just don't want to know. Almost impossible to get a yellow book. Immigration demanding to talk to my daughter, and fining her for not registering me on TM30. In my experience, the hassle is never ending.

Wow, so they fined your daughter for not having notified the IO that you - a foreigner - was staying at the premisses.  But you are the house owner!  It is you - as house owner - that has to notify the local IO that you are staying at your own house.  Your daughter has nothing to do with this.  The house-book clarifies the issue who is owner of the house, and that's the person expected to notify IO that a foreigner is staying there.

Looks like Trad IO is totally out of bounds on this issue.

Note: Did you try registering the premisses on the IO TM-30 website?

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Can the Village head explain point by point the process that will take 12 months and why it may not get approval? Of course your lawyer will know what to do. Seems like village mentality look after and protect our own at the expense of the Foreigner. 

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17 hours ago, Matzzon said:

As you speak it will not work. This is something you need to take up with the land and transport department. They are the only ones that can split up land and house between you and your wife. Has nothing to do with what stands on the building contract. As long as you have no paper that the building is yours you can not sign for building, as well as you will not get a name on something that do not already exist.

Do you mean the Usufruct regulations do not apply ? 
to me it sounds like the village “head” is overstepping his authority.

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