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'It'll be carnage': British companies dread a Brexit border breakdown


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2 hours ago, Loiner said:
2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Only a remainer would swallow that lot.

Maybe that's what he does every Sunday with his truckers

 Don't assume everyone else shares your pastime.

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1 hour ago, RayC said:

Only if you believe that a country should be governed by referendum.

 

Governments do the governing but not always well, so I see nothing wrong in them asking for the electorate to help with issues of great national importance from time to time.

 

The Swiss do it quite frequently - always runs like clockwork - what's wrong with that.

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1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yet again we have the Brexiteer self contradiction.

 

You all said at the time that May was a Remainer and her deal was Brexit in name only. 

 

Yet you all also complained then and still complain that Parliament at that time thwarted that deal because they were all Remainers!

 

The opposition parties voted against May's deal because they believed her deal was wrong; but so did you Brexiteers! You all said so; many times!

 

Which is all very confusing.

 

Can clarify it for us? Was May following the will of the people and was thwarted by a Remainer Parliament; or was she sabotaging the will of the people and was thwarted by a Brexit Parliament? It's got to be one or the other!

 

I wont bother quoting or responding to the rest of your post as the only response is to repeat what I have already said above and ask the same question.

 

Not that I expect an answer; Brexiteers always ignore the difficult questions!

 

The opposition parties voted against May's deal because they thought that they wanted a GE.

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40 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Governments do the governing but not always well, so I see nothing wrong in them asking for the electorate to help with issues of great national importance from time to time.

 

The Swiss do it quite frequently - always runs like clockwork - what's wrong with that.

And yet you do not want another referendum on either the Brexit deal or Scottish independence.

So the government should only give referendums on issues which you agree with.

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29 minutes ago, RayC said:

I'm well aware how democracy works. If only you understood that the winning side in a democracy has an obligation to govern on behalf of all the population -  not just its supporters - and that part of having a democratic mandate to govern is the burden of accountability and responsibility. Unfortunately, it's a burden that you seem unwilling and/or unable to acknowledge and accept.

But you have no idea how democracy works, you are a remainer and you wanted to deny the referendum result like many other remainers on here. The remainers in parliament were never happy to compromise, they wanted to overturn the 'democratic' will of the country, and through the remainers selfishness and deviousness you could have suceeded, thank the British public for seeing through their underhandedness, the likes of Lammy, Greive and Cable having clandestine meetings with the EU behind the governments back, totally disgracefull and it is tantamount to treason.

But isn't it a great relief to be not having continuous extensions and never ending meaningfull votes, we are well on our way to get what the country voted for 'Ray' and that is 'Democracy'

But I know like another poster on here, you are always correct.

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32 minutes ago, RayC said:

So 'Vogie', only Brexiters can understand - and have sole claim on - democracy? Glad we sorted that out.

 

The remainder (oops!) of your post offers proof - if it were needed - that you take no responsibility or accountability for 'managing' the implementation and effects of an outcome which you support. It's everyone's fault, but the people in charge i.e. your preferred government.

The remainers preferred candidate in last years election has just lost the whip! ????

Edited by evadgib
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3 minutes ago, RayC said:

You have no idea - and could not hazard an informed guess based on my TVF postings - who was my preferred candidate in last year's Labour party election. Still, when has the lack of any supporting evidence mattered to (most) Brexiters?

 

NB: Between you and me, it wasn't Corbyn.????

Swanson? That's even better! :clap2:

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2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

And yet you do not want another referendum on either the Brexit deal or Scottish independence.

So the government should only give referendums on issues which you agree with.

 

I used the example of the UK and Switzerland but referendums occur far less frequently in the UK. I think only 6 years is too soon for a vote on the same question, yes.

 

What I personally agree with does not matter. I am sure that any government would not ask for my individual blessing for any referendum. 

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1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

I agree that there is nothing intrinsically theoretically wrong with referendums; indeed, it can be argued that it is one of the 'purest' forms of democracy.

 

However, imo there are no end of practical problems in the context of a parliamentary democracy like the UK. For example, what are the criteria for triggering a referendum? (You mention when governments are not governing well.

 

 

 

They do but it is much smaller country and a federation, therefore a lot different constitutionally than the UK.

 

Criteria?                           How about EU membership as a benchmark?

Who decides this?         The Gov of the day.

When (How often)?       As infrequently as reasonably practical.

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1 hour ago, RayC said:

You have no idea - and could not hazard an informed guess based on my TVF postings - who was my preferred candidate in last year's Labour party election. Still, when has the lack of any supporting evidence mattered to (most) Brexiters?

 

NB: Between you and me, it wasn't Corbyn.????

 

I see Corbyn's just had the nidge from Starmer:

 

Jeremy Corbyn to fight suspension from Labour after EHRC antisemitism report comments – politics live

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/oct/29/uk-politics-live-ehrc-to-publish-report-into-labour-and-antisemitism

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3 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

The opposition parties voted against May's deal because they thought that they wanted a GE.

 Whenever a Remainer makes a statement like that, the Brexiteer response is along the lines of "What? Are you privy to what they thought?"

 

But you haven't answered the question. 

 

Neither has @vogie, to whom it was addressed, nor any other Brexiteer.

 

No surprise there; you lot always ignore the difficult questions.

 

 

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2 hours ago, vogie said:

<snip>

But you have no idea how democracy works, you are a remainer and you wanted to deny the referendum result like many other remainers on here.

 

Because back in 2016 no one in the Leave campaign would say exactly what Brexit would mean, other than beer and skittles for all, and all the warnings from the Remain side were dismissed as "Project Fear," what most Remainers and even some Brexiteers here in the UK wanted was a referendum on whether or not the withdrawal agreement and final deal were acceptable.

 

That WA and deal are both issues of vital national importance, and I agree with nauseus when he said

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

I see nothing wrong in them asking for the electorate to help with issues of great national importance

 

Of course, had we had a referendum on Johnson's self proclaimed triumph of a deal and had it been accepted by the majority, he'd be in a bit of a tiswas now he wants to renege on it!

 

Be interesting to see how Cummings would sell that one; Boris signed the WA as some form of eye test, maybe!

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48 minutes ago, nauseus said:
3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So why did the ERG keep voting against it?

 

Because they had read it!

 

Which brings us full circle back to the Brexiteer self contradiction.

 

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Was May following the will of the people and was thwarted by a Remainer Parliament; or was she sabotaging the will of the people and was thwarted by a Brexit Parliament? It's got to be one or the other!

 Any answer?

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51 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Whenever a Remainer makes a statement like that, the Brexiteer response is along the lines of "What? Are you privy to what they thought?"

 

But you haven't answered the question. 

 

Neither has @vogie, to whom it was addressed, nor any other Brexiteer.

 

No surprise there; you lot always ignore the difficult questions.

 

 

 

I was disputing your comment that ' the opposition parties voted against May's deal because they believed her deal was wrong' - not answering your strange question.

 

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1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 Who's that, then?

 

You're the one who seems keen on it!

It’s only a short chain, why didn’t you look who started it when you jumped into it?

 

You’re the one who won’t let it go. A strange obsession. Hey look, you’ve got some of that poster’s egg on your face now. 

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