Early Withdrawal of Funds seasoned in Thai Bank for Retirement Non O-A Visa Extension

[Isaanman]

A few quick questions: I have an O-A visa that I obtained from abroad. With continued border closures, it looks like I will not be able to pop in and out to get my additional year.

 

1) Do I only need to deposit ฿800k into my Thai bank account two months before I request an extension from my local immigration office within the country if this is the first time I have ever done this? Or, do I have to put it in there three months before the request?  

 

2) How much margin before my actual visa expires should I allow before making the request? 

 

3) Am I correct in my understanding that once I receive this extension (after the 2-3 month period of seasoning), if I do not plan to make another extension next year from within Thailand, that I could withdraw these funds and use them? In other words, there is no way that my local IO is going to know that I am allowing the amount of ฿ to go below the minimal requirement or that my Thai bank would inform them of such, correct? 

 

We are considering going back home for awhile after this 2nd year and can always request another O-A visa from the Thai Consulate in the US to return. But, I did not want to even consider this route, if prematurely withdrawing funds this upcoming year would penalize me in some way and keep from from being able to do that. Thanks for any input. ????

Edited October 28, 2020 by Isaanman
delete a few unnecessary words

[ubonjoe]

1. it has to be in the bank for 2 months before the day apply for the extension. Then it has to be in the bank for 3 months after you apply and then 400k baht until you top up you account to 800k baht 2 months before the next extension.

2. I suggest doing the extension no later the 2 weeks before you apply for the extension.

3. Some office offices require your return after the months to prove the 800k baht has been in the bank. Some also require you to present proof every 90 days.

If you failed to meet the requirements mentioned in number one they could refuse to accept you next application.

[DrJack54]

OP,  you can do as you outlined.

 Of ~ 80 immigration offices there are very very few that require you return and show bankbook with the required funds 90 days post application. Jomtien being one. 

Check your the IMM office you deal with if that is a requirement. 

[Isaanman]

By saying there are "very, very few IOs that "require you to return and show bankbook with the required funds 90 days past application" does this mean that this is one of those instances where each IO has their own rules and we have to find out what they are? Or, is there actually a requirement in a police order somewhere that stipulates this, yet one that most IOs don't bother with? 

[ubonjoe]

48 minutes ago, Isaanman said:

Or, is there actually a requirement in a police order somewhere that stipulates this, yet one that most IOs don't bother with? 

There is no requirement for a check of the balance in the immigration order until the next application is done.

I think one check after 3 months was a way to get the message out about the new requirements. Checking every 3 months is absurd IMO.

[Tracyb]

"The best laid plans of mice and men..."   One might consider, if at ALL feasible, leaving the 800K for three months after your extension and then reducing to 400K in the account.  (UbonJoe describes the requirements above)  

 

 If your plans do NOT change and you do indeed leave early, go ahead and take your money out of the account once that final decision is made and before you leave..  If you follow the prescribed timetable for funds deposited in your account, and for some unforeseen reason your plans change and you decide to stay here,  you'll be well positioned to adjust your deposit amount within the subsequent timeframe as required and re-apply for your next extension. Just a thought from someone who likes to prepare for contingencies.  Best wishes.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Tracyb

[TKDfella]

59 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no requirement for a check of the balance in the immigration order until the next application is done.

I think one check after 3 months was a way to get the message out about the new requirements. Checking every 3 months is absurd IMO.

Yes, I'd agree with that...at least for Udorn. At my extension earlier this year they checked to make sure I had not withdrawn inside the 3 months (and hadn't gone below the 800k). The will do the same when I apply for extension next year.

[Seeall]

20 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

OP,  you can do as you outlined.

 Of ~ 80 immigration offices there are very very few that require you return and show bankbook with the required funds 90 days post application. Jomtien being one. 

Check your the IMM office you deal with if that is a requirement. 

 

Doesnt mean its true.. one say yes one no depends if had a good coffee or not........

[TigerandDog]

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

1. it has to be in the bank for 2 months before the day apply for the extension. Then it has to be in the bank for 3 months after you apply and then 400k baht until you top up you account to 800k baht 2 months before the next extension.

2. I suggest doing the extension no later the 2 weeks before you apply for the extension.

3. Some office offices require your return after the months to prove the 800k baht has been in the bank. Some also require you to present proof every 90 days.

If you failed to meet the requirements mentioned in number one they could refuse to accept you next application.

Joe, as he's using 800k in the bank, it would appear he's on an O-A based on retirement. That being the case, you forgot to mention that he will also need the mandatory health insurance for his extension.

[Isaanman]

But when it comes time to ask for another extension at the end of the 2nd year (in the event that we do not want to leave at that time), the local IO will look carefully at the Thai bank verified bankbook statement to ensure that the amount of money on deposit did not dip below the required amounts at any time through the year (฿800k the first 3 months and ฿400k the entire year), correct? If it does, am I correct in assuming they simply will not grant another extension to remain in country on that particular existing O-A visa and that such a one will have to begin all over again--somehow, somewhere--to get a new visa?  

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, Isaanman said:

But when it comes time to ask for another extension at the end of the 2nd year (in the event that we do not want to leave at that time), the local IO will look carefully at the Thai bank verified bankbook statement to ensure that the amount of money on deposit did not dip below the required amounts at any time through the year (฿800k the first 3 months and ฿400k the entire year), correct? If it does, am I correct in assuming they simply will not grant another extension to remain in country on that particular existing O-A visa and that such a one will have to begin all over again--somehow, somewhere--to get a new visa?  

Correct.  Since you failed to comply with the extension of stay income requirements of maintaining at least Bt800K for 2 months before application, 3 months after approval, and at least Bt400K for the remaining 7 months, they would not approve another extension of stay.  You would need to leave Thailand/start over with a new visa.

 

[Peter Denis]

4 hours ago, Isaanman said:

By saying there are "very, very few IOs that "require you to return and show bankbook with the required funds 90 days past application" does this mean that this is one of those instances where each IO has their own rules and we have to find out what they are? Or, is there actually a requirement in a police order somewhere that stipulates this, yet one that most IOs don't bother with? 

There are only a handful of IOs that require you to come back after 3 months to provide evidence that the 800K on your personal bank-account is still there (e.g. Jomtien, Udon Thani, ...). 

Some rogue IOs even require evidence of the balance on your bank-account when doing the 90-day report in person at their office (ridiculous, because when doing the 90-day report on-line or by mail, such evidence is not required).

But if you slipped under the 800K during the first 3 months of your permission to slip, or slip under the 400K during the next 7 months, and did not top up to 800K in the last 2 months before your next application, your application would be refused for not meeting the financial requirements.

Be aware that even when you consider to switch to a 1-year extension of stay for reason of marriage (or dependent Thai children) at your next application, that IO will still check whether you met the financial requirements in the previous period.

Obviously when you exit Thailand before your next extension of stay is due, that will 'reset' your status, and you would be able to apply from scratch again for the Non Imm O Visa. 

But those that counted on doing this, were of course taken aback by the border closure.  And not sure if such border-closures will be a recurring phenomenon.  So, unless you are planning to leave Thailand for your home-country before your next extension of stay is due, it would be recommended - if at all possible - to keep the 800K/400K funds on your account and be 'in compliance' with the financial requirements for the 1-year retirement extension.

[Isaanman]

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

it [฿ 800k] has to be in the bank for 2 months before the day apply for the extension. . . . I suggest doing the extension no later the 2 weeks before you apply for the extension.

I am a little confused about the timing related to requesting the extension. On another TVF thread I am currently following and seeking information [https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1189412-non-o-retirement-visa-extensions-with-a-re-entry-permit/], Peter Denis responded directly to a question I raised and said, "Apply for the 1-year extension of stay based on their original Non Imm O-A Visa at their local IO.  This has to be done from 30 days before till last day of their current permission to stay date (as stamped in their passport when they last entered Thailand on that Non Imm O-A Visa)." 

 

So, I need to have the ฿800k in the bank 2 months before the request. And, this needs to be done 30-days before the permission to stay stamp in my passport. What exactly then does it mean to "do the extension no later than 2 weeks before you apply for the extension?" The last time I applied for and received an extension to stay on my O-A visa (with the salary-certified letter form my embassy--no longer an option), I did all of this on one occasion. I am a little confused, as to what seems to be presented here as a 2-step process: doing the extension and applying for the extension.  Could you shed a little bit more light? Thanks  ????              

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Isaanman said:

So, I need to have the ฿800k in the bank 2 months before the request. And, this needs to be done 30-days before the permission to stay stamp in my passport. What exactly then does it mean to "do the extension no later than 2 weeks before you apply for the extension?"

I does not have to be done 30 days before the your current permit to stay ends. It can even be done on the last day if you wanted to.

The 2 weeks before is a suggestion to allow time to get something sorted out that immigration wants when you do the application.

[Isaanman]

11 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

But if you slipped under the 800K during the first 3 months of your permission to slip, or slip under the 400K during the next 7 months, and did not top up to 800K in the last 2 months before your next application, your application would be refused for not meeting the financial requirements.

Everything you said makes sense and is keeping with my personal experience and that of others I know. I was not aware, however, that if one "slips" under the minimum required amounts in either of these 2 categories (฿800k and ฿400k) that they could top it back up to 800k the last two months before the next application and have it be accepted. How would the 400k for the entire year requirement be fulfilled in such a scenario? Wouldn't the ability to merely top it back up to 800k in the last 2 months merely take us back to the old way of doing things and negate the very intention the police order requirement for the 400k wanted to bring to pass? I can't imagine local IOs would be OK with that, would they? Maybe I missed something along the way. ????

[Isaanman]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

I does not have to be done 30 days before the your current permit to stay ends. It can even be done on the last day if you wanted to.

The 2 weeks before is a suggestion to allow time to get something sorted out that immigration wants when you do the application.

This is what I originally thought. Obviously, allowing margin makes good sense; something almost always comes up. I remember reading about having to wait until there are only 30 days left before you can apply (and sometimes up to 45 days); but, I never read that it had to be done 30 days out. Thanks for the clarification. 

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no requirement for a check of the balance in the immigration order until the next application is done.

I think one check after 3 months was a way to get the message out about the new requirements. Checking every 3 months is absurd IMO.

At the Immigration Office that I use – Surat Thani on Samui – some have been asked the show proof of funds after 90 days together with address report. Others – including myself – have not. My initial presumption was – and still is – that those of us known faces with 12-month fixed deposits, they don't bother to check before next application for extension of stay based on retirement, whilst new, or newer, faces might be checked, depending of the mood of the immigration officer that day, and the applicant's behavior...????

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, Isaanman said:

Everything you said makes sense and is keeping with my personal experience and that of others I know. I was not aware, however, that if one "slips" under the minimum required amounts in either of these 2 categories (฿800k and ฿400k) that they could top it back up to 800k the last two months before the next application and have it be accepted. How would the 400k for the entire year requirement be fulfilled in such a scenario? Wouldn't the ability to merely top it back up to 800k in the last 2 months merely take us back to the old way of doing things and negate the very intention the police order requirement for the 400k wanted to bring to pass? I can't imagine local IOs would be OK with that, would they? Maybe I missed something along the way. ????

To answer your question > How would the 400k for the entire year requirement be fulfilled in such a scenario?

The financial requirement when applying for the 1-year extension of stay based on an original Non Imm O or Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement, and using the funds-in-bank method is as follows:

1 - When applying first time > evidence of 800K on your personal Thai bank-account in the 2 months preceding the moment of application, and never having slipped below that 800k tresshold

2 - When applying and already on an earlier 1-year extension of stay > evidence of sufficient funds on your personal Thai bank-account during the 12 months preceding the moment of application.

Sufficient funds means:

- at least 800K during the first 3 months of that preceding 12-month period

- at least 400K during the next 7 months of that preceding 12-month period

- at least 800K during the last 2 months before the moment of application

and never having slipped under these 800/400K tressholds during that preceding 12-month period.

[Hepbub]

Slightly different topic, I am on a visa by marriage, and have just over 400k in the bank. I was advised to draw this money out shortly after the coronavirus started, ( folk thinking there would be a run on the banks). My visa was in January and drew it out in April, then put it back in, when I realised I was given bad info (beginning of June). will this be OK for my next visa?. 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, Hepbub said:

Slightly different topic, I am on a visa by marriage, and have just over 400k in the bank. I was advised to draw this money out shortly after the coronavirus started, ( folk thinking there would be a run on the banks). My visa was in January and drew it out in April, then put it back in, when I realised I was given bad info (beginning of June). will this be OK for my next visa?. 

There is no requirement to keep the 400k baht in the bank any longer than 2 months before you apply for the extension and possibley during the 30 day under consideration period. After that you can do whatever you want to until 2 months before you apply for your next extension.

[Peter Denis]

26 minutes ago, Hepbub said:

Slightly different topic, I am on a visa by marriage, and have just over 400k in the bank. I was advised to draw this money out shortly after the coronavirus started, ( folk thinking there would be a run on the banks). My visa was in January and drew it out in April, then put it back in, when I realised I was given bad info (beginning of June). will this be OK for my next visa?.

The main advantage of a 1-year extension of stay based on your original Non Imm O (or O-A) Visa for reason of MARRIAGE is that you only need to provide evidence of having kept +400K on your personal Thai bank-account in the TWO months preceding the date of your application.  You would also need to keep the 400K during the 3-4 weeks 'under consideration period', but once you got the 1-year permission to stay stamp in your passport you are free to use the funds as you please, only to top up again to 400K two months before you plan to apply for your NEXT 1-year extension of stay.

[Hepbub]

Thanks for that info, you have lifted a worry from me. Thanks again