Three dead as woman beheaded in knife attack at French church

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

We’re going in circles here, you just don’t want to get it! So, for the last time, in my opinion, yes, the ones that kill people are psychopaths, we know that, we know that they will continue to kill, it’s not alright for them to do, I’m not condoning it in any way, shape or form! But, since we know, that this is the way they react to it, we should stop enraging them on purpose under the cover of free speech to spare some people’s lives because the lives of those people are way more important than the ability to mock other people’s religion for no reason other than mocking them. 
 

If you still don’t get/don’t want to get it, then fine, let’s agree to disagree, but I done here! 

 

Basically, you give the killers are free pass, saying 'it is what it is'. The remedy you prescribe is self-placed censorship, limiting  civil rights and freedoms. That's pretty much what people like the killers want ....

[pacovl46]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I've read your comments and found them wanting.

 

The 'issue at hand' is  not what you decide you want to focus on, while ignoring any other point of view. The way you present things is just your opinion. You don't get to dictate what other posters 'need' to focus on.

 

Demands are not necessarily imply an ordered list presented to the public. The demand, in this case, is to refrain from blasphemy when it comes to Islam. If you imagine caving in on this will make everything alright and that there will be no more 'demands' of this sort, we'll have to disagree.

 

You post that demands can be raised, but it does not mean that they will be accepted. And yet, your posts on this topic are all basically supportive of caving in to such a demand.

 

The trouble with your logic, IMO, is that you treat the religious violence involved as a given (something that needs to be accepted). Your posts are essentially about appeasement, in the form of placing the blame on parties who did not kill anyone. Sure, the magazine editors had a choice. So did the murderers who killed these people. You focus solely on the former, while apparently giving the latter a free pass.

 

Kinda doubt most Muslims worldwide, or even in France, subscribe or follow this magazine. Further, they are not obliged to read it, see the cartoons and so on. And yet, violence and death are offered. Go figure.

Stop putting words in my mouth!!! Please quote where I said that I blame only Hebdo for what happened! I never said that!

 

By the way, you’re not one hair better because you’re trying to force your point of view onto me!  
 

Again, lives of people more important than mocking a religion!

 

History has shown that every time they mock the prophet there’s an attack afterwards and Hebdo is explicitly stated as the reason for the attack. So again, you play with fire and you get burned. That’s the facts! Whether you want to believe that is up to you! 
 

 

[pacovl46]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Basically, you give the killers are free pass, saying 'it is what it is'. The remedy you prescribe is self-placed censorship, limiting  civil rights and freedoms. That's pretty much what people like the killers want ....

Nope, I don’t give them a free pass! For the last fricking time now:

 

Every time they publish a cartoon mocking the prophet people get killed and they cite Hebdo’s cartoon as the reason for the attack! So, people get killed because of their cartoons, that’s the FACTS! 
 

Ergo, if you stop mocking their prophet people will stop getting killed because of these cartoons. 
 

It’s that simple! 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Stop putting words in my mouth!!! Please quote where I said that I blame only Hebdo for what happened! I never said that!

 

By the way, you’re not one hair better because you’re trying to force your point of view onto me!  
 

Again, lives of people more important than mocking a religion!

 

History has shown that every time they mock the prophet there’s an attack afterwards and Hebdo is explicitly stated as the reason for the attack. So again, you play with fire and you get burned. That’s the facts! Whether you want to believe that is up to you! 
 

 

The people that need to change are the people that are cutting peoples heads off and not the people drawing cartoons, it is not difficult.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Stop putting words in my mouth!!! Please quote where I said that I blame only Hebdo for what happened! I never said that!

 

By the way, you’re not one hair better because you’re trying to force your point of view onto me!  
 

Again, lives of people more important than mocking a religion!

 

History has shown that every time they mock the prophet there’s an attack afterwards and Hebdo is explicitly stated as the reason for the attack. So again, you play with fire and you get burned. That’s the facts! Whether you want to believe that is up to you! 
 

 

 

No words were put in your mouth - you repeatedly ask that posters focus solely on the magazine's 'responsibility'. I'm not 'forcing' anything - addressed your points already several times, and did not deny other points of view.

 

This is not about 'mocking religion'. It's about freedom of speech. Some would say it's a fine principal, and maybe one which is ought to be fought for, rather than tossed aside as per the wishes of religious nutters.

 

There were attacks associated with Islamic/Islamist/whatever perpetrators before that, and on other grounds. Maybe it's best just to accept their wishes on all things and live happily ever after?

[luckyluke]

18 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

f you still don’t get/don’t want to get it, then fine, let’s agree to disagree, but I done here! 

If you still don't get/don't want to get it, let's agree to disagree, and indeed it is better you done here than.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Nope, I don’t give them a free pass! For the last fricking time now:

 

Every time they publish a cartoon mocking the prophet people get killed and they cite Hebdo’s cartoon as the reason for the attack! So, people get killed because of their cartoons, that’s the FACTS! 
 

Ergo, if you stop mocking their prophet people will stop getting killed because of these cartoons. 
 

It’s that simple! 

 

Giving a free pass as in treating this religious violence as something that needs to be accommodated, not fought against or resisted.

 

The killed before. They killed because of other 'provocations' (or whatever). It's not just about the cartoons.

[johnray]

Islam is Christianity done right.  Stoning homosexuals, no graven images, beating your wife and abusing children, wearing a hijab just like the Virgin Mary.  They are the perfect Christians.

Edited November 6, 2020 by johnray

[kingdong]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Basically, you give the killers are free pass, saying 'it is what it is'. The remedy you prescribe is self-placed censorship, limiting  civil rights and freedoms. That's pretty much what people like the killers want ....

A bit off topic but that expression " it was what it is " gets right on my tits.

[kingdong]

Just now, kingdong said:

A bit off topic but that expression " it was what it is " gets right on my tits.

Another victory for my spellchecker i meant " it is what it is"

[balo]

All the churches in France should have police protection , imagine working inside a church, your life is at stake. 

[simple1]

6 hours ago, balo said:

All the churches in France should have police protection , imagine working inside a church, your life is at stake. 

 

Macron has committed extra security forces for schools and churches. Given there are tens of thousands of churches and schools in France would guess security is provided by way of localised risk assessment

[kingdong]

59 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Macron has committed extra security forces for schools and churches. Given there are tens of thousands of churches and schools in France would guess security is provided by way of localised risk assessment

The reality of migration.

[Thorgal]

44 minutes ago, kingdong said:

The reality of migration.

 

French media reports that the Tunisian immigrant has been tested positive for covid-19. His medical condition doesn’t allow him to be auditioned by French police.

 

He had been in contact with another Tunisian, with residence in Nice, the day prior to the attack.

 

Another Tunisian immigrant travelling with the attacker since Lampedusa has been arrested in Nice.

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

French media reports that the Tunisian immigrant has been tested positive for covid-19. His medical condition doesn’t allow him to be auditioned by French police.

 

 

What where the bold gendarmes " auditioning "? Him for the eurovision song contest?

[Thorgal]

19 minutes ago, kingdong said:

What where the bold gendarmes " auditioning "? Him for the eurovision song contest?

 

They have to make an audition with the Tunisian immigrant to file a report about his whereabouts.

 

In French it’s “auditions par la police”

 

https://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/traduction/audition+par+la+police.html

Edited November 7, 2020 by Thorgal
Spelling

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

They have to audition the Tunisian immigrant to file a report about his whereabouts.

 

In French it’s “auditions par la police”

 

https://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/traduction/audition+par+la+police.html

Sacre bleu,you live and you learn.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, kingdong said:

The reality of migration.

 

Colonised countries provided the foundation.

[kingdong]

28 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Colonised countries provided the foundation.

Of what? The current terrorism the west is witnessing?two wrongs don,t make a right.they were given their independence so have no furthur right of residence in the former colonies homelands,as for refugees " rights"are you referring to the hague convention ? which was cobbled together by the west in response to its lack of action against russia who were getting lairy colonising eastern european countries,that anyone fleeing russia would be given refuge in the first safe country they set foot it,not trekking thousands of miles across europe because of the all inclusive welfare they recieve at uk citizens expense.,oh and by the way the iron curtain dosen,t exist now so perhaps the outdated hague convention should be rescinded,like they rescinded laws which sent kids to austrailia for stealing a loaf of bread.

[Opl]

2 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

French media reports that the Tunisian immigrant has been tested positive for covid-19. His medical condition doesn’t allow him to be auditioned by French police.

 

He had been in contact with another Tunisian, with residence in Nice, the day prior to the attack.

 

Another Tunisian immigrant travelling with the attacker since Lampedusa has been arrested in Nice.

Two men, aged 18, a Russian of Chechen origin and a Frenchman, and a young woman aged 17, were arrested and taken into police custody on Tuesday morning.
In total, ten people are now indicted in this case.

The two men are suspected of having exchanged messages with the assailant, Abdullakh Anzorov, according to a source familiar with the matter, via a discussion group in couriers.
The Russian of Chechen origin, Ismail G., was born in Grozny, in the Russian republic of Chechnya, in 2002, and arrived in France in 2003, according to declarations of his parents, to AFP.

The father and mother said they were questioned by counterterrorism investigators. They claimed that their son was "innocent" and that he "regretted" the murder of Samuel Paty.

The mother's home, where Ismail G. lived, was searched, according to her.

The 17-year-old is suspected of having been in contact with one of the two men, according to the same source close to the file.

 

And same goes with the fatwa against Samuel PATY, if not worse.   

Edited November 7, 2020 by Opl

[Opl]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

 

Colonised countries provided the foundation.

This is the main Muslim Brotherhood argument to promote its Islamist political salafi agenda among the Muslim Diaspora and Muslim population in the West. 

And what about Vienna terror attack? 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Opl

[Thorgal]

On 10/31/2020 at 9:06 AM, Opl said:

We - in France - removed crucifix from our classrooms - submission to Muslim Brotherhood isn't an option. 

 

Removal of Crucifix in French schools was implemented after new law from 1905 separating State and Church through political influx of French socialist Emil Combes.

 

Muslim brotherhood started in Egypt in the early 1930’s.

 

It’s not yet proven by French police that the Tunisian attacker was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

[Opl]

10 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Removal of Crucifix in French schools was implemented after new law from 1905 separating State and Church through political influx of French socialist Emil Combes.

 

Muslim brotherhood started in Egypt in the early 1930’s.

 

It’s not yet proven by French police that the Tunisian attacker was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

The problem isn't the terrorist, the problem is the rampant Islamization of western societie, sharia and blasphemy codes, etc.. 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Opl

[Thorgal]

34 minutes ago, Opl said:

Two men, aged 18, a Russian of Chechen origin and a Frenchman, and a young woman aged 17, were arrested and taken into police custody on Tuesday morning.
In total, ten people are now indicted in this case.

The two men are suspected of having exchanged messages with the assailant, Abdullakh Anzorov, according to a source familiar with the matter, via a discussion group in couriers.
The Russian of Chechen origin, Ismail G., was born in Grozny, in the Russian republic of Chechnya, in 2002, and arrived in France in 2003, according to declarations of his parents, to AFP.

The father and mother said they were questioned by counterterrorism investigators. They claimed that their son was "innocent" and that he "regretted" the murder of Samuel Paty.

The mother's home, where Ismail G. lived, was searched, according to her.

The 17-year-old is suspected of having been in contact with one of the two men, according to the same source close to the file.

 

And same goes with the fatwa against Samuel PATY, if not worse.   

 

Samuel Paty was killed in Orflans, close to Paris.

 

OP is about the killing of 3 people at the basilic of Nice.

 

Why mixing both separate cases?

[Thorgal]

11 minutes ago, Opl said:

The problem isn't the terrorist, the problem is the rampant Islamization of western societies 

 

Another poster commented that a mere 6% of population in EU are Muslim.

Where is the threat?

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

Another poster commented that a mere 6% of population in EU are Muslim.

Where is the threat?

The amount pf terrorist acts pro rata to the 6%  population?

[Opl]

8 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Samuel Paty was killed in Orflans, close to Paris.

 

OP is about the killing of 3 people at the basilic of Nice.

 

Why mixing both separate cases?

I forgot to add the Vienna terror attack

guess what all these cases have in common... 

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

 

Colonised countries provided the foundation.

 

France and UK have allowed and experienced some 150 years of colonial immigration into their own lands.

All other EU countries have a history of recent immigration.

 

There’s no link between colonial migration and radicalisation.

[Opl]

5 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Another poster commented that a mere 6% of population in EU are Muslim.

Where is the threat?

 

Islamism teaches us that demography makes history ,  "we know that the birth rate encouraged by our religion will slowly but surely change the sociological, cultural and civilizational situation in France. We care about it as much as we care about the advantageous policy of family reunification and the allowances that God maintains."

[Thorgal]

6 minutes ago, kingdong said:

The amount pf terrorist acts pro rata to the 6%  population?

 

Can you provide yourself facts and figures?

 

My learning curve is begging.