Three dead as woman beheaded in knife attack at French church

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

 

IMO Muslim Leadership and street protests have outmanoeuvred  whoever runs for President in France  on support more immigration whatever the reason ( last terrorists where refugees)  

 

So far as i know the recent killer had not undergone full background check / vetting, which is of course needs to be  remedied by enacting further legislation.

 

I don't read Macron has backed away on the problem of Islamists, quite the opposite.

 

There was a need to "free Islam in France from foreign influences", the president went on, outlining plans to end a system allowing Imams to train overseas, reduce homeschooling, and take control of religious funding. Associations would have to sign a contract respecting "the Republic's values" in order to obtain subsidies. 

 

The measures, accompanied by improvements to educational, cultural and sports services, are to form part of a draft law on "secularity and liberty", expected in December.

 

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/27/macron-and-islam-what-has-the-french-president-actually-said-to-outrage-the-muslim-world

 

Comment on new immigrations law introduced by Macron below. However, one assumes nothing will satisfy you other than a complete ban on refugee in take  / Muslims.

 

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/20652/france-to-impose-quotas-for-economic-migrants-in-2020

 

 

[medic5678]

Let's face it.  With Europe welcoming these people who latch onto public welfare systems and pump children out, how good can the outlook be?  In 50 years, Europe will be majority Muslim.  The Muslims will turn it into the hellish countries they came from.  The French were stupid, now they pay the price.

[Opl]

36 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

So far as i know the recent killer had not undergone full background check / vetting, which is of course needs to be  remedied by enacting further legislation.

 

I don't read Macron has backed away on the problem of Islamists, quite the opposite.

 

There was a need to "free Islam in France from foreign influences", the president went on, outlining plans to end a system allowing Imams to train overseas, reduce homeschooling, and take control of religious funding. Associations would have to sign a contract respecting "the Republic's values" in order to obtain subsidies. 

 

The measures, accompanied by improvements to educational, cultural and sports services, are to form part of a draft law on "secularity and liberty", expected in December.

 

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/27/macron-and-islam-what-has-the-french-president-actually-said-to-outrage-the-muslim-world

 

Comment on new immigrations law introduced by Macron below. However, one assumes nothing will satisfy you other than a complete ban on refugee in take  / Muslims.

 

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/20652/france-to-impose-quotas-for-economic-migrants-in-2020

 

 

 

The suspect had arrived by train carrying an Italian Red Cross identity document, changed his clothes at the train station in Nice, then walked to the church to begin his attack, sad irony.

Had he decided to live a normal life, his dozen of siblings and parents could have join through chain migration, too bad.

Yes I'm for the deportation of foreign / binational outlaws  as soon as they get out of jail,  the non renewal of documents that allow  foreign identified Jihad supporters to stay in France, the criminal record of any expression of threat to our National Security , death threat to our citizens for their Free Speech,  and the mandatory due diligence of these records before granting social welfare benefits to them and their families, as well as employment ...

 

All the rest of Macron's declarations are History due to 2020 different crisis, the Migration issues coming back top of mind for a while, with excellent reasons.

France is pretty much by itself regarding secularism and laicité, the rest of the world is still open to Muslim migrants, so where is the problem,  those in France who complain about our Free Speech can always try to apply for asylum elsewhere,

There is a need to free France from Islamic influences.    

Edited November 1, 2020 by Opl

[simple1]

52 minutes ago, Opl said:

the rest of the world is still open to Muslim migrants,

 

Untrue, even within some EU member countries

[Opl]

12 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Untrue, even within some EU member countries

splitting hair

NZ, Australia, UK, Canada, Switzerland, Germany, Singapore, Malaysia, UAE, S.A, Qatar, Turkey ...  to name a few  countries with opportunities 

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Opl

[Laughing Gravy]

On 10/31/2020 at 9:47 AM, simple1 said:

 

Le Pen is the totally wrong person for the future of France, Just for a start she support's Putin and has received financing from Russia, let alone her awful economic policies and other negatives..

Well let the French people decide shall we. There are enough posters on here who like to tell other people from other countries what they should do and what they shouldn't.

[evadgib]

Any livestream from speakers corner this afternoon is likely to be interesting. I won't bore anyone with fine detail except to say that it will be current; related and of peripheral interest to this board.

[simple1]

41 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well let the French people decide shall we. There are enough posters on here who like to tell other people from other countries what they should do and what they shouldn't.

the French people have decided, le Pen will not achieve power, no matter what the right of centre enthusiasts desire.

Edited November 1, 2020 by simple1

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, simple1 said:

the French people have decided, le Pen will not achieve power.

And they will decide again. It is called democracy and don't be so sure that they will not vote Le Pen in.

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

And they will decide again. It is called democracy and don't be so sure that they will not vote Le Pen in.

 

true, no accounting for those who vote for the destruction of their own country.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

true, no accounting for those who vote for the destruction of their own country.

Its their country to destroy like they already have. So, its for the French to decide, not you or I, although you certainly like to tell everyone what they should or shouldn't be doing.

[Opl]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

true, no accounting for those who vote for the destruction of their own country.

 France isn't - and never will be -  a Muslim country

 

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Its their country to destroy like they already have. So, its for the French to decide, not you or I, although you certainly like to tell everyone what they should or shouldn't be doing.

 

 

I was in France late 2018, never got the impression France was 'destroyed' However, you're being silly, I cannot tell anyone what to do, just expressing my opinions as you do. 

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, simple1 said:

 

 

I was in France late 2018, never got the impression France was 'destroyed' However, you're being silly, I cannot tell anyone what to do, just expressing my opinions as you do. 

You should look at your writing style. You don't offer opinions you dictate. Anyway I am sure your trip to France in 2018 gives you the experience and knowledge what France needs.

 

How about letting the French posters here tell you what France needs.

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Opl said:

 France isn't - and never will be -  a Muslim country <snip> 

 

Agree. 

[Opl]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

 

I was in France late 2018, never got the impression France was 'destroyed' However, you're being silly, I cannot tell anyone what to do, just expressing my opinions as you do. 

Sorry, but Simply (!) because - as many others - and Muslims in particular - you don't know what it means to be French;  

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

And they will decide again. It is called democracy and don't be so sure that they will not vote Le Pen in.

 

Correct,

there are 68 candidates for the French Presidential of 2022.

Mrs. Le Pen has  the same probabilities to be elected as the other candidates.

 

In first instance we will see what her new program will be.

 

She was anti E.U., she changed her mind on the last election.

 

I doubt she will become pro Muslim, but it is a probability, if she thinks it will get her more votes.

 

We will have to wait. 

 

[simple1]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

You should look at your writing style. You don't offer opinions you dictate. Anyway I am sure your trip to France in 2018 gives you the experience and knowledge what France needs.

 

How about letting the French posters here tell you what France needs.

 

I'm sure there are many differing opinions of what France needs by French citizens. However, stop trying to dictate to me. TVF is a debating platform and one can post in any topic no matter one's nationality.

 

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, Opl said:

Sorry, but Simply (!) because - as many others - and Muslims in particular - you don't know what it means to be French;  

 

Did I ever make such a claim, just my impressions. Can I suggest you take a step back, I have not made any anti comment against the French nation as a whole. Try giving your attempts at personalised negativity a rest. 

 

FYI I was born with a French surname on my birth certificate, conceived in Montmartre, mother was an Francophile. I have good memories of visiting France over the years - my first sexual experience was with a French girl????

Edited November 1, 2020 by simple1

[KhunFred]

This kind of thing works both ways. If the families of terrorists were jailed or executed, that might possibly give pause for thought, to any would-be suicide bombers or decapitation squads. Terrorism must be crushed by any means necessary.

[Opl]

40 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Did I ever make such a claim, just my impressions. Can I suggest you take a step back, I have not made any anti comment against the French nation as a whole. Try giving your attempts at personal attacks a rest. 

 

FYI I was born with a French surname, mother was an Francophile. I have good memories of visiting France over the years - my first sexual experience was with a French girl????

 

As a French I've been eyeing Charlie Hebdo's covers every week without buying the issues - I'm not a reader - just because I know their satirical cartoon is made of 2 or 3 satiric humor layers,   kind of guess what , how dare you, it's awfully crude but true and not PC of course and voluntarily schocking, stupid (1st degree) and mean (in the "moronic" nuance). 

Before "Charlie Hebdo", it was  originally created under the name of " Hara-Kiri" which says it all.  

Most French are schocked and disgusted, depends on the weekly target, but noone really takes it as a personal offense, they could be sued of course but murdered or killed, that never comes to mind. And they targeted absolutely everyone; every institution, the establishment of course, but the average Joe ( French version of), and above all, prejudices and stereotypes of all sorts. 

 

And the idea that they deserve - we deserve - to be punished by fatwa for Free Speech  is utmost un-French;    

Edited November 1, 2020 by Opl

[kingdong]

14 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

IMO Macron has outmanoeuvred Le Pen on immigration policy. le Pen wishing to cease all immigration from say Pakistan, is not clear thinking. e.g. there many Pakistani Christians and Ahmadiyya Muslims still seeking to escape oppression in Pakistan . As mentioned before i would guess aligning herself to Putin would not be attractive to the majority in France, nor her economic isolationist policies.

Why are the Pakistani Christians and ahmadiyya Muslims France's responsibiity?

[Morch]

4 hours ago, KhunFred said:

This kind of thing works both ways. If the families of terrorists were jailed or executed, that might possibly give pause for thought, to any would-be suicide bombers or decapitation squads. Terrorism must be crushed by any means necessary.

 

I think that. by now, with accumulated experience from trying collective punishment in such instances, there could be a straightforward answer as to whether it's effective or just plays for the home crowd. My impression is that there's little deterring effect - with the added 'bonus' of ensuring a next generation of 'baddies' being motivated to follow up.

[Morch]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:43 PM, pacovl46 said:

If people went to a zoo and to poke a lion in a cage with a stick and one day the lion breaks out of the cage and kills a few people and people then stop to poke the lion, would you consider that submitting to the lion or would you consider that common fricking sense?

 

 A lion is an animal. Muslims are people. We accept animals to react in certain ways, we expect better from people.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Untrue, even within some EU member countries

 

It's irrelevant.

There is no particular imperative for France to open it's gates for all and sundry. It's not France's burden to bear.

All the more so if other EU members decline to do their 'share'. I think that the mindset under which countries who play 'nice' on human and civil rights get shafted or expected to pick up everyone else's mess is slowly but surly going out the window. There's just so much 'collective guilt' sentiment which can be milked in the face of such attacks.

[luckyluke]

10 hours ago, Opl said:

Before "Charlie Hebdo", it was  originally created under the name of " Hara-Kiri" which says it all.  

The choice of the name "Hara-Kiri /Journal bête et méchant (Stupid & nasty newspaper) was a play on words, credited by some to François Cavanna. 

A reference to the Japanese ritual suicide, with a kind of fun :

Hara qui rit = Hara who laugh. 

[Opl]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

It's irrelevant.

There is no particular imperative for France to open it's gates for all and sundry. It's not France's burden to bear.

All the more so if other EU members decline to do their 'share'. I think that the mindset under which countries who play 'nice' on human and civil rights get shafted or expected to pick up everyone else's mess is slowly but surly going out the window. There's just so much 'collective guilt' sentiment which can be milked in the face of such attacks.

Arab Youth Survey: Almost 100 million young Arabs in Mena region want to leave their country

The COVID-19 pandemic has further increased young Arabs’ desire to emigrate, says Survey

For the ninth consecutive year, the UAE continues to prevail as the preferred nation for young Arabs to live in (46 per cent) and for their own nation to emulate (52 per cent). The United States is the next most popular country among Arab youth to live in (33 per cent) and emulate (30 per cent).

"The desire to leave is most prevalent (63 per cent) among youth in Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Yemen and Palestinian Territories."

Maghreb: 47%

https://thestateindia.com/2020/10/06/arab-youth-survey-almost-100-million-young-arabs-in-mena-region-want-to-leave-their-country/

https://asdaa-bcw.com/en/frustrated-with-struggling-economies-and-corruption-nearly-half-of-young-arabs-have-considered-leaving-their-country/

Edited November 1, 2020 by Opl

[simple1]

9 hours ago, Morch said:

It's irrelevant.

There is no particular imperative for France to open it's gates for all and sundry. It's not France's burden to bear.

All the more so if other EU members decline to do their 'share'. I think that the mindset under which countries who play 'nice' on human and civil rights get shafted or expected to pick up everyone else's mess is slowly but surly going out the window. There's just so much 'collective guilt' sentiment which can be milked in the face of such attacks.

 

There is no particular imperative for France to open it's gates for all and sundry.

 

Never suggested there was / is such an obligation.

 

IMO EU countries refusing to accept an intake of asylum seekers for vetting / refugees should face penalties as they would have had to make commitments under the terms of their EU membership. As I understand all such EU countries are net recipients of EU subsidies. Acknowledge would be challenging to enforce, whilst keeping the EU intact for trade and defence purposes.

[simple1]

9 hours ago, kingdong said:

Why are the Pakistani Christians and ahmadiyya Muslims France's responsibiity?

 

They are not France's sole responsibility, a number of other countries are providing refuge, including where I now live, Australia. However, IMO, any country which talks of it's humanitarian policies, should step up to contribute to assisting persecuted peoples, so long as they do not pose a threat to national security.

[kingdong]

38 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

They are not France's sole responsibility, a number of other countries are providing refuge, including where I now live, Australia. However, IMO, any country which talks of it's humanitarian policies, should step up to contribute to assisting persecuted peoples, so long as they do not pose a threat to national security.

And we all live happily ever after,fine in theory,reality appears to be somewhat different.