Is Thailand deliberately trying to sabotage it's own tourism industry?

[spidermike007]

With the revelation about the 500,000 baht required for a tourist to visit Thailand, it feels like it is the straw that may break the camels back. There are already so many restrictions in place, hurdles to jump over, quarantine to endure, one wonders who thinks up these road blocks. 

 

With the restrictions that are already in place, few are going to be visiting over the next year or so. To place additional road blocks directly into the path of the few remaining tourists who may want to brave all of this nonsense, seems like the height of hubris and insanity. Some of us, were hoping that the current crisis, that threatens 20% of the Thai economy derived from tourism, might be enough to bring some humility to immigration. The opposite seems to be happening. It feels like the "TCOTU" (Thailand is the center of the universe) is alive and well. 

 

They keep droning on, and on, and on about the desire to bring in well heeled tourists. There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. First they need to figure out a way to attract tourism, WITHOUT quarantine. That is fairly simple. A very reliable lab based test in the home nation, with test results before you board the plane. Then a simple antigen test at the airport. It takes 15 minutes for results. Sure, Thailand would have to invest in the test kits. Some general would have to be willing to part with a few million dollars. Each test itself, only cost $5 with the new Abbott test, which is available now. And there is some risk. But, it is fairly low, with two different kinds of tests. And some risk needs to be taken, to put millions of people back to work. Stores, restaurants, and hotels just keep closing every week. There is an attrition factor that is mind boggling, especially on Samui, in Phuket, Pattaya, and Chiang Mai. 

Then they could get on to reform. Sacrifices need to be made. I do not hear ANY discussion about what sacrifices Thailand is willing to make, to get the tourists, and that multi trillion baht cash cow back. These issues and problems were becoming apparent long before Covid. And none were being addressed. That is part of my point. Tourism had been declining for years already. The numbers were up. But the quality of tourist was way down. And according to everyone I spoke to last year, the year before and the year before that, income was way, way down. So, "this blame it all on Covid scenario" is somewhat disengenuous. Sure, Covid is huge. And the drop now is stunning. But, my point is there were plenty of issues prior to Covid. And are any of them being addressed?

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by spidermike007

[ukrules]

14 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

And are any of them being addressed?

Of course not, the only issue is COVID, before that 'Thailand number 1' ????

[Gumballl]

19 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

With the revelation about the 500,000 baht required for a tourist to visit Thailand, it feels like it is the straw that may break the camels back. There are already so many restrictions in place, hurdles to jump over, quarantine to endure, one wonders who thinks up these road blocks. 

 

With the restrictions that are already in place, few are going to be visiting over the next year or so. To place additional road blocks directly into the path of the few remaining tourists who may want to brave all of this nonsense, seems like the height of hubris and insanity. Some of us, were hoping that the current crisis, that threatens 20% of the Thai economy derived from tourism, might be enough to bring some humility to immigration. The opposite seems to be happening. It feels like the "TCOTU" (Thailand is the center of the universe) is alive and well. 

 

They keep droning on, and on, and on about the desire to bring in well heeled tourists. There are countless things the government could be doing, if they wanted to attract the high quality tourists. First they need to figure out a way to attract tourism, WITHOUT quarantine. That is fairly simple. A very reliable lab based test in the home nation, with test results before you board the plane. Then a simple antigen test at the airport. It takes 15 minutes for results. Sure, Thailand would have to invest in the test kits. Some general would have to be willing to part with a few million dollars. Each test itself, only cost $5 with the new Abbott test, which is available now. And there is some risk. But, it is fairly low, with two different kinds of tests. And some risk needs to be taken, to put millions of people back to work. Stores, restaurants, and hotels just keep closing every week. There is an attrition factor that is mind boggling, especially on Samui, in Phuket, Pattaya, and Chiang Mai. 

Then they could get on to reform. Sacrifices need to be made. I do not hear ANY discussion about what sacrifices Thailand is willing to make, to get the tourists, and that multi trillion baht cash cow back. These issues and problems were becoming apparent long before Covid. And none were being addressed. That is part of my point. Tourism had been declining for years already. The numbers were up. But the quality of tourist was way down. And according to everyone I spoke to last year, the year before and the year before that, income was way, way down. So, "this blame it all on Covid scenario" is somewhat disengenuous. Sure, Covid is huge. And the drop now is stunning. But, my point is there were plenty of issues prior to Covid. And are any of them being addressed?

 

 

Oh my Buddha... it is a temporary measure! It is an effort to dissuade tourism at this time.

 

Note: "at this time" refers to the ongoing period of the global pandemic to which many western nations seem to want to ignore.

[ThreeEyedRaven]

TBH, when I saw the 500K requirement my first thoughts were someone has had some bad mushrooms, or that they were trying to deliberately keep foreigners out.

If the latter, you have to question why, knowing the impact it will have on peoples lives?

It is almost a case of the government deliberately driving the economy to the wall, for whatever nefarious reason it has behind the scenes.

Poor people will revolt probably faster than well to do ones, so maybe they don't want too many witnesses when that happens and the possible China style suppression that follows?

The region as a whole is losing democracy scarily quickly.

[bwpage3]

Why would a high quality tourist want to visit Thailand?

 

If you are that high quality and can afford to go anywhere, why would these folks choose Thailand? With all the latest and stupid requirements?

 

If you are a high quality tourist and not a sex tourist, what exactly does Thailand have to offer, that you couldn't find in other countries that are safer and cleaner?

 

I can think of 100 better places I would rather go as a tourist than Thailand.

 

Thailand is on a severe decline yet officials seem to think this in the only place in the world tourists want to visit.

 

Who knows if Thailand tourism will ever wise up, before the majority of tourists are lost forever?

 

Who knows what the latest idiosyncrasy will be next week? 500K today, maybe something even worse next week/month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brad88]

6 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

If you are a high quality tourist and not a sex tourist, what exactly does Thailand have to offer, that you couldn't find in other countries that are safer and cleaner?

My answer: Meaningful relationships with the good, decent Thai people with whom I have cultivated strong connections with in previous visits as a tourist/traveler. I like many things about Thailand culturally speaking on the surface, but it is the deeper connections with the people who I have symbiotic relationships with that still most give me that magnetic pull to want to come back. However, that desire to re-connect is trumped by the BS policies...so I'll wait for clearer skies before returning. There will be no shortage of comical policy changes with immigration before then, of course.

[Thomas J]

The Thailand officials have at their disposal countless millions of baht to study the problem, plus the resources of the entire world health community to study the best and safest way to restore tourism to Thailand.  I have no doubt they will marshal all the necessary resources, put together a list of strategies and select the strategy that makes the most sense, causes the least intrusion to incoming tourists, and provides safety to the Thai citizens. 

OF COURSE THEY WILL EVENTUALLY SELECT THAT STRATEGY AFTER TRYING ALL THE OTHER STRATEGIES FIRST

[mr mr]

i just sold my property back home, cashed in all my bitcoin (lots of it) and invested it into a new venture with a lovely lady i met in pattaya a few weeks ago. 

 

after reading this i feel kinda woosey. i think i need to excuse myself.  

[stuandjulie]

If they really want high end in any sort of numbers then they have to sort out transport, get rid of the wires everywhere, provide proper pavements/sidewalks, stop most of the tourist areas looking like a dust ridden Blackpool, get rid of the bar girls and rip offs. Just saying we want you to have lots of money in the bank wont work, you have to offer the correct product. Not saying that is better or having a go at sexpats etc. just commenting on what would have to be done to make this a rich mans/woman's playground, no need to worry as it will never happen, that would mean proper investment not take take.

[Pattaya Spotter]

Aside from the North Asian market, Singapore, and Oz/NZ, I can't think of many other places where people would even be thinking of taking vacations anywhere, let alone Thailand, at this time. So the fact they propose another rather extreme financial test for tourists to meet is beside the point. They government should look into establishing travel corridors with the aforementioned low-covid countries if they want to start to revive the moribund inbound tourist market. (Or is it these countries don't want to establish such corridors with Thailand because they don't trust the official Covid numbers coming from the Thai government?)

[vinny41]

These are the countries most reliant on your tourism dollars

Thailand comes in at 21st with  9.82% GDP ( this is international tourism figure with is seperate from domestic tourism)

Source is World Bank

https://qz.com/1724042/the-countries-most-reliant-on-tourism-for-gdp/

 

This article talks about European  Holidaymakers to blame for Covid 2nd wave and subsequent lockdowns all over Europe

European holidaymakers to blame for COVID second wave, says health expert

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/28/european-holidaymakers-to-blame-for-covid-second-wave-says-health-expert

 

So if Thailand opens up no quarantine would it go into a countrywide lockdown

 

There are question marks over how accurate and reliable these rapid tests are

1) They aren't meant to be given to everyone only for symptomatic people

How accurate are rapid COVID-19 tests?

https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/policy/health-care/how-accurate-are-rapid-covid-19-tests.html

 

Why Trump’s Rapid-Testing Plan Worries Scientists

Experts were already divided on the right way to deploy new coronavirus tests. Then the White House barged ahead.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/10/do-rapid-antigen-tests-have-accuracy-problem/616681/

[Natai Beach]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

First they need to figure out a way to attract tourism, WITHOUT quarantine.

No thanks. 
I think everyday for months they having been detecting a few cases because of their very effective quarantine procedures. Over 1000 people, some like the Dutch bloke in Phuket last week who if let out of quarantine WOULD have spread it to others who would have spread it to more people. Many are not detected when they first arrive which is WHY a 14 day quarantine is necessary.
 

The STV visa is very well thought out scheme and a good compromise. Last thing anyone wants is a situation like in the USA, where it is that far gone now, on track for 3 million new infections just this month alone making it impossible to eradicate like Thailand successfully has.

That won’t help tourism, it will just fill the hospitals, people will die and more businesses will go bankrupt. The vast majority of businesses in Thailand are NOT foreign tourist dependent and are up and running currently. If you let covid back in they will all be dragged down. All for the sake of propping up a few tourism businesses that won’t get nearly enough business anyway with the current climate. 
 

3 million infections will lead to at least 40,000 more dead and thousands more with long term illness. Just from November. Europe appears is going the same way. Worldwide Covid infections and deaths have never been higher than they are now, it would be reckless and idiotic to abandon the quarantine procedures in place that have been 100% effective for months.
 

I would love for life to back to normal, but you have to face the reality. 
Forget it.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Natai Beach

[NCC1701A]

you know, riding my scooter around Hua Hin today it looked like a earthquake had destroyed parts of the city. 

 

places that were built just two years ago on soi 94 are being being torn down now. 

 

almost all the progress with new local businesses over the last five years that cater to Farangs are gone.  

 

the horribly ugly elevated dual track train that has cut the city in half is taking an eternity to complete.

 

the air today was filthy. 

 

oh shoot i lost my chain of thought. 

 

anyway the answer is yes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by NCC1701A

[jvs]

Like so many new rules in Thailand i think it will be reversed or nullified even this week.

There is a much deeper ting going on,even if Thailand would open up 100% tomorrow with now strings attached,who would come?I mean as a tourist?Sure people who have roots here would come but all the people outside of Thailand who i have spoken to are not willing to come here at all.

Most people are not even sure if they will still have a job next month,their wallets are zipped!

Is travel insurance enough if you get infected?Most countries advice their citizens not to do any international travel.Many airlines are not operating fully.

Bars could offer free beers to foreign tourists but guess what?They will not come!

[impulse]

Disturbing as it may be (and hard to accept) the dominance of the western tourist is on the decline.  Thailand may be losing them by the droves, but they're making it up- and then some- as China's economy grows and more Chinese can afford to travel.

 

All Thailand really needs to do to make western tourists irrelevant is convince Alibaba Films to do another flick like "Lost in Thailand", which did for Chinese tourism what "The Beach" did for western tourism.  A good flick could send millions of extra Chinese tourists a month, until it wanes and they need to do a sequel.

 

And in spite of all the griping about zero dollar tours, the Chinese actually spend more in Thailand than western tourists.  The numbers support that.  They just don't spend it on the important things like booze.  Venues that adjust to their new customer base will thrive.  Those trying to hold onto the good ol' days of western tourists won't.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by impulse

[Dumbastheycome]

Tourism is a sector of a National economy.  An economy is  not  Tourism. A  Cash Cow  Dies. Time to  rear and raise a  new one. Maybe not a  clone .

 

[DavisH]

Singapore are not commencing a trave bubble, I believe with Hing Kong. Thailand really needs to convince (relatively) covid free neighbours that Thailand is the same, and start worign on their own bubbles. At the same time reducing their insane requirements for entry to Thailand. Very new will come under the current requirements. NZ one case today, AUS 8 cases today...HK and SP 18 cases....this is where to start. Go another year and most small businesses will be shut and will NOT open again. This just seems like a face-making exercise on Prayut's part.

[KC 71]

1 hour ago, Gumballl said:

Oh my Buddha... it is a temporary measure! It is an effort to dissuade tourism at this time.

 

Note: "at this time" refers to the ongoing period of the global pandemic to which many western nations seem to want to ignore.

'Temporary' ~ Don't Count On It !

[darrendsd]

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

Why would a high quality tourist want to visit Thailand?

 

If you are that high quality and can afford to go anywhere, why would these folks choose Thailand? With all the latest and stupid requirements?

 

If you are a high quality tourist and not a sex tourist, what exactly does Thailand have to offer, that you couldn't find in other countries that are safer and cleaner?

 

I can think of 100 better places I would rather go as a tourist than Thailand.

 

Thailand is on a severe decline yet officials seem to think this in the only place in the world tourists want to visit.

 

Who knows if Thailand tourism will ever wise up, before the majority of tourists are lost forever?

 

Who knows what the latest idiosyncrasy will be next week? 500K today, maybe something even worse next week/month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you are a sex tourist you think like a sex tourist

 

If no high quality tourists visit Thailand why are there so many 5 star hotels?

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

They just don't spend it on the important things like booze.  Venues that adjust to their new customer base will thrive. 

And if they follow the "Chinese tourists spend money in Chinese businesses, cutting out the locals" model from Cambodia?

Edited November 11, 2020 by BangkokReady

[FalangTingTong]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Aside from the North Asian market, Singapore, and Oz/NZ, I can't think of many other places where people would even be thinking of taking vacations anywhere...

 

I'm currently planning to leave a locked-down EU country in order to vacation in a not-yet-locked-down one, and I know a bunch of people who are planning the same.  Ticket prices are going up really fast for those routes: my preferred route doubled in price over the week when our lockdown was announced.

 

Only special requirement is some not very strict contact tracing.  Of course this could backfire, but so far at least a few of the warmer destinations are betting it won't.

 

I'm also planning to go to Thailand in January/February and have no problem with the quarantine (I'd go now but for family obligations elsewhere).  Obviously it would be nice to just have a few tests or whatever, but considering how jumpy the locals are I'd much rather just deal with quarantine and then be treated "normally" than have a test I could have bribed into negativity and then be suspect.

 

I have no idea how many people look at it like I do, and I know we're not going to make that big a difference to the tourism industry, but surely if lots of Europeans are happy to country-hop while it's still possible, then some subset of that would be happy to go to Thailand even with the various hoops to jump through.

 

And I'd bet the Chinese Jab is going to be a requirement for entry in 2021.  Maybe they'll let you take it at the airport.

 

[impulse]

59 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

1 hour ago, impulse said:

They just don't spend it on the important things like booze.  Venues that adjust to their new customer base will thrive. 

And if they follow the "Chinese tourists spend money in Chinese businesses, cutting out the locals" model from Cambodia?

 

Then there's a whole lot of other Thai officials not doing their jobs.  Like enforcing work permit requirements, and keeping some professions reserved only for Thais.  And making sure that businesses are owned at least 51% by Thais.

 

By Thai laws, they must stay at hotels owned at least 51% by Thais, eat at restaurants owned at least 51% by Thais, take buses owned at least 51% by Thais, and buy their gifts for the folks back home at shops owned at least 51% by Thais.  And all those businesses must employ Thai people to clean, cook, sell, do maintenance, and drive.  And, by law, those businesses must pay Thai taxes.  If any of that doesn't happen, it ain't because the TAT isn't doing their part.

 

Edit:  Unless, of course, those businesses are owned by Americans under the Treaty of Amity.  But that's not the same thing.  Still, it should trigger some ideas for the Chinese folks who have become American citizens...  But they can make more money in the USA.

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by impulse

[Traubert]

No.

 

Thailand isn't trying to sabotage it's tourism industry.

 

The idea is ridiculous, whatever you think of their Government.

[DDBKK]

The fact of the matter is that the people making all the decisions aren't affected by them in any detrimental way and so it continues. 

 

In fact, if we were to break it down regarding the demographic of those who are most affected by the lack of tourism I'd bet a large % are the Burmese workers who appear to be on every island and tourist hot spot. Yes, lots of Thais and farang will be suffering but for thai, their family will join together to support each other and for farang, they really should have savings and/or have the foresight to plan for an eject situation if the <deleted> truly hit the fan. That's part of the basic 101 planning when you move to Thailand.

 

Tourism will return next year and it'll come back with a vengeance. The Thais are right about one thing, there are thousands of people waiting to get back to let their hair down and enjoy all the freedoms the country has to offer. There will be some who cut off their nose to spite their own face but those types wont be missed anyway.

 

Talking with my Thai family, thai friends and friends of friends who are not connected to the tourism industry and it's business as usual for the most part. So it's unfortunate for those in the industry who are suffering but there is also lots of suffering going on in other industries throughout the world such as aviation, oil and gas etc etc. 

 

This time next year Rodney.... 

[alianware]

That's why the pro democracy protesters want the current PM to stept down. 

[Lacessit]

It's difficult to know whether the decline in tourism is through malice aforethought, or just being without a clue. I vote for the latter.

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

Why would a high quality tourist want to visit Thailand?

 

If you are that high quality and can afford to go anywhere, why would these folks choose Thailand? With all the latest and stupid requirements?

 

If you are a high quality tourist and not a sex tourist, what exactly does Thailand have to offer, that you couldn't find in other countries that are safer and cleaner?

 

I can think of 100 better places I would rather go as a tourist than Thailand.

 

Thailand is on a severe decline yet officials seem to think this in the only place in the world tourists want to visit.

 

Who knows if Thailand tourism will ever wise up, before the majority of tourists are lost forever?

 

Who knows what the latest idiosyncrasy will be next week? 500K today, maybe something even worse next week/month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why did you ever come here then?

[Pattaya Spotter]

8 hours ago, FalangTingTong said:

I have no idea how many people look at it like I do, and I know we're not going to make that big a difference to the tourism industry, but surely if lots of Europeans are happy to country-hop while it's still possible, then some subset of that would be happy to go to Thailand even with the various hoops to jump through.

Yes there is surely some subset of people with the means and will to travel during this Covid Winter...but as you point out, the numbers are small and will do nothing to revive the Thai tourism sector.

[LennyW]

This is just another in a series of hurdles imposed with the intent of actually keeping people out...without actually saying we dont want anybody coming in, all about saving face!!

[tonray]

Two competing factions:

 

1) Tourist industry which wants more foreigners (even if they might have disdain for them)

 

2) Nationalists in Government who are against foreigners coming into Thailand and would use the Covid crisis to work toward that ideal