Hotel operators beg govt to consider reopening Thailand soon

[Walter Travolta]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

we both know if tracking was a option there would numerous posts by idiots on this and other forums providing information how the tracking can been fooled or turned off

So when a criminal has a tag on to keep them inside on a curfew, how come they havent found a way around that? If anyone could, crims could, no? So really neither of know that tracking would be turned off. Please dont just make things up

 

Dont forget, tagging/tracking costs the government in the country the tag is attached. Quarantine is paid for by the individual. Of course they will choose quarantine. The cost of quarantine is outrageous. A couple of grand for 2 weeks??

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, Walter Travolta said:

The cost of quarantine is outrageous. A couple of grand for 2 weeks?

 

I wouldn't call it "outrageous", couple of people have mentioned 35K on here (obviously at the lowest end) - that covers transfer to the hotel, the room, three meals a day and testing. My accommodation normally tends to be more than that with no meals or transport.

 

The blanket requirement regardless of where you're flying in from to me is dubious, especially given Thais don't even get tested prior to departure.

[SW Happy]

22 hours ago, seajae said:

It is a hard time for businesses but putting money before peoples lives is not the answer, until covid is totally under control around the world travel bans need to be enforced and the govt needs to help effected businesses/people more than they are, buying subs etc when the country is desperate is not  good govt policy.

Yes but its not any old sub. Its a Chinese sub!????

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

So when a criminal has a tag on to keep them inside on a curfew, how come they havent found a way around that? If anyone could, crims could, no? So really neither of know that tracking would be turned off. Please dont just make things up

 

Dont forget, tagging/tracking costs the government in the country the tag is attached. Quarantine is paid for by the individual. Of course they will choose quarantine. The cost of quarantine is outrageous. A couple of grand for 2 weeks??

Your living in a different planet If Thailand was to replace quarantine with electronic tagging devices , cost for the devices, monitoring of devices, and all associated would be paid for by the individual entering the country including the cost of medical staff and transport that would be required to administer tests. who knows maybe the total cost would be in the region of £4-5K for two weeks

[Walter Travolta]

3 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

I wouldn't call it "outrageous", couple of people have mentioned 35K on here (obviously at the lowest end) - that covers transfer to the hotel, the room, three meals a day and testing. My accommodation normally tends to be more than that with no meals or transport.

 

The blanket requirement regardless of where you're flying in from to me is dubious, especially given Thais don't even get tested prior to departure.

The blanket requirement that bothers me is everyone is placed in the same box no matter your age and health. 

I think people believe Im a covid denier and that the world should open up, Im not and dont. My stance is that those countries who have coped and have had hardly any cases (zero in some countries for months) should open to each other. Im definitely not saying Thailand should open up to all and sundry!! But we need to start moving forward in those countries, but as I have said before, who will be the first? No-one seems to want to in fear of losing face

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

But we need to start moving forward in those countries, but as I have said before, who will be the first?

 

Australia has opened up to Kiwis, no quarantine. Still, unless recently updated, quarantine (self isolation?) if they go back to NZ though. Given the recent outbreaks can see why I guess.

[Walter Travolta]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Your living in a different planet If Thailand was to replace quarantine with electronic tagging devices , cost for the devices, monitoring of devices, and all associated would be paid for by the individual entering the country including the cost of medical staff and transport that would be required to administer tests. who knows maybe the total cost would be in the region of £4-5K for two weeks

Why are you stating your opinions as facts? Where did you get your figures from? 

 

Quarantine is fine if you have tested positive. A negative test should result in a tracker. Just my opinion which I dont put out there as facts, unlike you. Try being a bit more humble and realise you are not the font of all knowledge and not everything you say is fact oh wise one ????

[vinny41]

 

 

5 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

Why are you stating your opinions as facts? Where did you get your figures from? 

 

Quarantine is fine if you have tested positive. A negative test should result in a tracker. Just my opinion which I dont put out there as facts, unlike you. Try being a bit more humble and realise you are not the font of all knowledge and not everything you say is fact oh wise one ????

You still don't get it people have been tested 72hrs before flight and tested negative, tested negative on arrival, tested negative 5 days after arrival , tested postive on day 10-11 after arrival

hence

The incubation period of COVID-19, which is the time between exposure to the virus and symptom onset, is on average 5-6 days, but can be as long as 14 days. Thus, quarantine should be in place for 14 days from the last exposure to a confirmed case.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by vinny41

[EricTh]

With the protest to oust Prayut, I doubt the government is going to hear what the hotel industry is saying. He's trying to hold onto power.

[Truth Will Set You Free]

On 11/18/2020 at 6:26 PM, snoop1130 said:

Suphajee also encouraged the Tourism and Sports Ministry to set up a tourism recovery fund that will allow hotel operators to borrow by using their hotel as a collateral.

Hotel and small business don’t do this! Once you do this and cannot repay that debt, all is over. 
 

If you do, ensure you have a 30 years repayment plan with a very low interest.  

[Dumbastheycome]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

If you are an old person, the percentage you quote is incorrect. It's more like 3-4% and ignores the rehabilitation aspect entirely. It is NOT no more dangerous than the flu. The USA is approaching 4.5 million active cases, those cases mean other patients are crowded out of overwhelmed hospitals.

 

I understand the zeitgeist of today is that old people should hurry up and die off so they get out the way of younger people. My apologies, I'm sticking around and it will be your turn soon enough.

lol. Bravo !  You and  me and  them  are the bristly  ole pricks  who  set you   young  punks  up for the  bliss of  what you have in the  world ! 

Yes? No?

It  may be so  but the sad thing is that the new generations effectively don't  give  a genuine fig for the past  you, me and them  generations. Is that not also a part  of what they have inherited?

In a sense it  is  like the drivers  Thailand.  I'm here. Stay out of my way!  Where  you are is irrelevant  to my now. In many  respects  that is  how  most of the world operates. Callous, selfish, grasping. From  top to  bottom. Wonderfully  encompassed  in  the delusional concept  of  "human  rights" and equality!

Don't  apologize !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bluedan]

11 hours ago, AmySeeker said:

 

Disagree. People in Thailand are more scared of the virus than a short term downturn of the economy. During lockdown I remember sensing the fear in the eyes when foreigners would approach them, that xenophobia fear was running rife. 

 

Thailand is living in bliss at the moment without covid. They honestly don't know how lucky they are. Go see the images and horrors in Europe, who chose to go down the path of opening up. 

 

I don't even fathom how you intend they just open up? What will happen, as is happening in Europe, is that the virus will run rife, there will be mass hospitalisations, loved ones being lost - at which point the government will put into action a new lockdown and close everything down. However, this time they may not be so lucky and eradicate the virus. In turn there will be no tourists turning up.

 

What they have now, is a domestic economy tickling along. No lockdown, and for those stuck in Thailand now they are safe from the virus and free to enjoy the country. 

 

I really detest with a passion those who just say 'they should open up' and get on with it. They usually mention Sweden alot too. The same Sweden that in the last few days has announced lockdowns - guess their much lauded herd immunity experiment failed. 

 

I detest those who deliberately mislead

Sweden has announced:

• The limit on public gatherings is cut from 50 people to eight and applies to events such as concerts and sports matches. Those arranging public events exceeding eight people now face fines or even imprisonment.
• Restaurants are restricted to a maximum of eight diners per table.
• Schools, workplaces, and private gatherings are exempt from the ban but Löfven urged Swedes to adhere to the new eight-person limit.

This is a lockdown?

Swedens death rate per million is below lockdown countries such as Italy Spain and England 

Peru had the harshest lockdown in the world and a high death rate, Argentina similar 

perhaps explain that one for us?

[greenhornfarang]

14 hours ago, charmonman said:

Just have a look at reports of hospital systems being overwhelmed in many parts of the US and you might change your mind. Those you know ... how about those other people know? Unless you personally know someone who has died or suffered long term then it doesn't exist?

The friend I was referring to who tested positive works at the Montreal General Hospital in Canada and he briefs me on the Covid-19 ICU at his hospital and the patients, its extremely difficult to find someone who is affected by covid or has debilitating effects after, then again me and him are in the 30-50 age group so maybe that is why neither me nor him (he works at the hospital) know anyone with debilitating effects or even know anyone who died of covid, and it has been 9 months now. Pretty sure in a real pandemic there is no such thing as 90% of the affected being asymptomatic.

[daejung]

On 11/18/2020 at 12:26 PM, snoop1130 said:

“Since the Covid-19 vaccine is expected to be ready next year, the government should come up with an e-visa system to help tourists return to the country,” she added.

 

 

Vaccinated people should be allowed to enter Thailand :

• Without quarantine nor wristband
• Without covid-19 insurance
• Without COE

Otherwise they won't come back.

[daejung]

22 hours ago, alianware said:

Blame your PM chan o cha. His Gov.  is responsible for this. He loves to play state emergency for his benefit.

PM appointed through a junta and fake elections/constitution

Edited November 19, 2020 by daejung

[sammieuk1]

Doubt anyone in this government is listening to hoteliers when they are unaffected by their own draconian measures and a big fat baht ????

[meechai]

17 hours ago, meechai said:

 

Well you could be right about C19 regulations continuing but as far as not seeing anything change?

I tell you what ...change is quickly approaching & it is not going to be pretty.

Desperation/poverty does not happen silently or without major changes occurring in day to day life

 

13 hours ago, AmySeeker said:

 

Disagree. People in Thailand are more scared of the virus than a short term downturn of the economy. During lockdown I remember sensing the fear in the eyes when foreigners would approach them, that xenophobia fear was running rife. 

 

Thailand is living in bliss at the moment without covid. They honestly don't know how lucky they are.

 

I don't even fathom how you intend they just open up?

 

What they have now, is a domestic economy tickling along.

 

I really detest with a passion those who just say 'they should open up' and get on with it.

 

 

I am not even sure why you chose my post to quote or respond to?

I never said a thing about opening up etc etc  but your comments are classic bwana type

"They honestly dont know how lucky they are?" 555 Yes I am sure ????

 

Look again at my post see what I underlined

 

THAT is what I said...I said Changes will occur whether you think them lucky or not

If you ever lived in an area that had a economical crisis sweep thru you would know that

those changes are neither pretty,safe nor silent

 

Thailand does not have welfare/ Food EBT etc etc safety nets in place

 

Yes villages in the country will for the most part continue on as usual

Cities like Bangkok etc? Like I said Desperation/Poverty induced by the economical crisis that is coming will not

happen silently nor go unnoticed.

 

Although you say they should know how lucky they are to not have covid folks that are hungry or not able to make payments & get

displaced are not feeling lucky...Worse are the ones with kids that feel they now need to do bad things because

a parent will do much to save theirs.

 

 

[mbenson]

16 hours ago, mjakob007 said:

there are several people that we know has had antibodies without even knowing they even had a Flu.

 

 

They found something like this in a fairly large study that was done in Germany, I believe. They discovered that far more people had antibodies than should have according to the predictive statistical models they were using. The models could have been flawed, but there was a theory that another common corona virus, one that does not cause human illness, may cause immunity to Covid-19. I've not heard anything since, but it sort of sounds like a cowpox - smallpox kind of relationship.

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

lol. Bravo !  You and  me and  them  are the bristly  ole pricks  who  set you   young  punks  up for the  bliss of  what you have in the  world ! 

Yes? No?

It  may be so  but the sad thing is that the new generations effectively don't  give  a genuine fig for the past  you, me and them  generations. Is that not also a part  of what they have inherited?

In a sense it  is  like the drivers  Thailand.  I'm here. Stay out of my way!  Where  you are is irrelevant  to my now. In many  respects  that is  how  most of the world operates. Callous, selfish, grasping. From  top to  bottom. Wonderfully  encompassed  in  the delusional concept  of  "human  rights" and equality!

Don't  apologize !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see anybody saying they don't care about the older generation. Most people objecting to staying locked down are saying the older (or vulnerable) people should isolate themselves and governments should help them to do this as much as possible. 

 

Are you not willing to make that sacrifice to prevent the economic meltdown that's coming if the lockdowns continue? Meltdowns that will see countless lives ruined, suicides, cancers and other serious illnesses going undiagnosed, civil unrest?

 

My parents are knocking on 80 yrs, and they don't want to drag the younger generations down with them.  They don't want the whole world to isolate with with them.  Do you? 

 

 

[AmySeeker]

8 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

I mean come on, why quarantine someone for 14 days after they have tested negative? 

 

You clearly have little idea how this works. 

 

So you take a test 72 hours before flying. You are negative. 

 

However, the virus can take up to 5 days before it shows up in your system and on the test. So even though you took a test 3 days before your entry into Thailand you could still have the virus. 

 

Secondly, you then have 3 days after the test when you aren't monitored. Unless you are driving isolated in your car to Thailand and no contact with the human race, you are risking catching the virus - be it when you went to get your test, airport, flight, other passengers etc. 

 

You then arrive at Bangkok airport with passengers who may be positive. Many do indeed test positive. 

 

There is no guarentee you won't pick up anything in a quarantine hotel. Many have tested positive at the final 14 day test. 

 

It's all about keeping Thailand safe. 

 

Thailand aren't on some lone path - they join New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, China, Hong Kong, Japan, Canada, India etc in banning foreigners coming to their country. Even the USA have banned most of Europe and the world from entering.

 

Thailand has gone further than most to let in tourists. 

 

 

[AmySeeker]

3 hours ago, Bluedan said:

I detest those who deliberately mislead

Sweden has announced:

• The limit on public gatherings is cut from 50 people to eight and applies to events such as concerts and sports matches. Those arranging public events exceeding eight people now face fines or even imprisonment.
• Restaurants are restricted to a maximum of eight diners per table.
• Schools, workplaces, and private gatherings are exempt from the ban but Löfven urged Swedes to adhere to the new eight-person limit.

This is a lockdown?

Swedens death rate per million is below lockdown countries such as Italy Spain and England 

Peru had the harshest lockdown in the world and a high death rate, Argentina similar 

perhaps explain that one for us?

 

Sweden's own health minister is saying they got it wrong. They are facing a second wave which was not meant to happen!

 

Sweden has mass land space, but one major city that has a population of around 800,000 people, compared to 12 million in London. 

 

They have wrecked their economy by 10%, more than Thailand and their neighbouring countries Denmark, Finland and Norway. Surely keeping their economy open meant they would not suffer. So not only have the suffered economically they have killed thousands needlesly. 

 

In part their economy has failed because during the first wave they allowed thing to remain open, but consumer confidence was low. People were afraid to leave their homes. 

 

The ruling government has the lowest polling rates of any other country in Europe. Tell the Swedish people they are lauded as heros by a few nutters. 

 

MOST SHOCKINGLY their death toll is ten times worst than neighbours Norway, Finland and Norway. Wreckless and shocking. 

 

Sweden did have a lockdown. Probably bigger than the UK if you take into account all measurments. eg, Sweden had locked down it's borders. The UK remained open to the world !! If you are in Thailand you can't get entry into Sweden, but the UK is open. So did Sweden really not have a lockdown?

 

Sweden are now going through a second wave that was not meant to happen. Their own health minister is saying they perhaps got it wrong. 

 

I have friends in Sweden, who are appalled they are hailed as an inspiration. The USA has opened up, most states not locking down, go look at what Uncle Donald results are. 

 

 

[samsensam]

 

what on earth are they complaining about? the government has excelled bringing in 1200 tourists every month, and  each, apparently, is going to spend 1 million baht per month! they should be patting the government on the back for its efforts!

[joecoolfrog]

On 11/18/2020 at 6:32 PM, AmySeeker said:

Yeah open up, what's the worst that can happen. Oh wait, there's a pandemic that is destroying millions of lives around the world. 

 

Seriously why is this even been reported on ?

You dont think lives are being destroyed in Thailand ?

[AmySeeker]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

You dont think lives are being destroyed in Thailand ?

 

How is the opening up in the Uk going? Oh wait, shocking horror health figures, hospitals filling up, and ANOTHER LOCKDOWN. 

 

Oh and the pandemic out of control. 

 

Behave. 

[Techno Viking]

10 hours ago, Bkktodd said:

 78% are working but many with scaled back hours or zero commissions. It effect everyone.  Except the elite who runs the country 

 

What facts are you basing that on, do you have some links I read read ?

[charmonman]

9 hours ago, greenhornfarang said:

The friend I was referring to who tested positive works at the Montreal General Hospital in Canada and he briefs me on the Covid-19 ICU at his hospital and the patients, its extremely difficult to find someone who is affected by covid or has debilitating effects after, then again me and him are in the 30-50 age group so maybe that is why neither me nor him (he works at the hospital) know anyone with debilitating effects or even know anyone who died of covid, and it has been 9 months now. Pretty sure in a real pandemic there is no such thing as 90% of the affected being asymptomatic.

Canada has controlled its epidemic much better than some other places, such as the US where in many states it has just been allowed to spread uncontrolled. ICUs in Canada have not been overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients as they have been in many parts of the US so the outcomes are a lot better. It doesn't matter if a large portion of the infected are asymptomatic if a significant portion experience severe symptoms and overwhelm the capacity of the health system. This is why public health measures are important.

[Bluedan]

8 hours ago, AmySeeker said:

 

Sweden's own health minister is saying they got it wrong. They are facing a second wave which was not meant to happen!

 

Sweden has mass land space, but one major city that has a population of around 800,000 people, compared to 12 million in London. 

 

They have wrecked their economy by 10%, more than Thailand and their neighbouring countries Denmark, Finland and Norway. Surely keeping their economy open meant they would not suffer. So not only have the suffered economically they have killed thousands needlesly. 

 

In part their economy has failed because during the first wave they allowed thing to remain open, but consumer confidence was low. People were afraid to leave their homes. 

 

The ruling government has the lowest polling rates of any other country in Europe. Tell the Swedish people they are lauded as heros by a few nutters. 

 

MOST SHOCKINGLY their death toll is ten times worst than neighbours Norway, Finland and Norway. Wreckless and shocking. 

 

Sweden did have a lockdown. Probably bigger than the UK if you take into account all measurments. eg, Sweden had locked down it's borders. The UK remained open to the world !! If you are in Thailand you can't get entry into Sweden, but the UK is open. So did Sweden really not have a lockdown?

 

Sweden are now going through a second wave that was not meant to happen. Their own health minister is saying they perhaps got it wrong. 

 

I have friends in Sweden, who are appalled they are hailed as an inspiration. The USA has opened up, most states not locking down, go look at what Uncle Donald results are. 

 

 

No they didn't lockdown. Show us a source that says they did. I just did a search and couldn't find any information showing they closed their borders. So no internal lockdown and no external border closure. Please feel free too show a source proving me wrong or alternatively feel free to apologise for misleading.

 

Its common to compare with neighboring Nordic countries but just geographic nearness doesn't make the comparison a good one. My understanding is that Sweden has much greater population density in the disproportionately affected areas and large poorer migrant groups who were affected there. When compared to other European countries it isn't a high death rate at all. They also have much larger care homes for the elderly. They admitted like many countries they got it wrong in failing to protect the elderly early on.  They certainly weren't alone there regardless of lockdown or no lockdown it happened in a number of countries. 

 

Respiratory virus always increase in the winter, and testing is far greater so no surprise that there are more cases, but he death rate in Sweden has been very  low since the early stages. 

 

As far as their economy goes they have been the victims of other European countries locking down they don't live in an economic bubble, but hey allowed their businesses and schools to continue running and trusted their population to be sensible rather than mandating strict lockdown rules and crushing local busineses.

 

The fact that your friends are appalled isn't evidence of anything. 

 

The WHO has warned against the consequences of locking down. It seems that some find death from undiagnosed cancer and heart disease, domestic violence, drug abuse, suicide, years lost from loss of education, many millions being thrown into extreme poverty (again WHO estimates) all to be far more acceptable than COVID deaths.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Bluedan

[Bluedan]

9 hours ago, brucec64 said:

Are you ok with your parents/siblings dying? idiot...

Did he say that he was? Im sick of these kind of insulting comments. Are you ok with the collateral damage deaths lockdown policy causes? One of UK's top oncologists Karol Sikora estimated 20-50,000 extra cancer deaths due to lockdown policy. Add to that heart disease, suicide, depression poverty etc. But I guess you are ok with that.

[Bluedan]

8 hours ago, mbenson said:

They found something like this in a fairly large study that was done in Germany, I believe. They discovered that far more people had antibodies than should have according to the predictive statistical models they were using. The models could have been flawed, but there was a theory that another common corona virus, one that does not cause human illness, may cause immunity to Covid-19. I've not heard anything since, but it sort of sounds like a cowpox - smallpox kind of relationship.

Scientists are saying there is T and B cell immunity derived from exposure to other corona virus in the past since they share very similar outer protein shells. It is thought that up to 50% of the population may have already had this form of immunity from SARS COV2

[rickudon]

4 hours ago, Bluedan said:

Scientists are saying there is T and B cell immunity derived from exposure to other corona virus in the past since they share very similar outer protein shells. It is thought that up to 50% of the population may have already had this form of immunity from SARS COV2

25% of common colds are caused by coronaviruses. So this is quite possible.

 

On the more general issues, I have 2 distant relatives who have died from Covid, one was over 80, the other 73.

 

As for opening up to save the economy, would it really? Lockdown or no lockdown, all countries have seen an economic downturn, as people change spending habits. You just get a more generalised and smaller recession.

 

Also you will not 'save' those cancer patients by not locking down. The hospitals are full of Covid patients instead, and of course anyone actually undergoing cancer treatment will have weakened immune systems and more likely to die of Covid as well. It is all a balancing act, not quite so straight forward.

 

As for the pandemic - going from strength to strength, USA lost 2,000 people yesterday, global total 10,000 plus, new records. It is not under control. Also, we need to remember that the majority of people have still not had Covid (hard to know without testing everyone), in many smaller Urban areas it has only really taken hold in the last few months. And it is this winter which will see most deaths. 

 

Global deaths by end of 2021 - 5 million?

 

It is tough for tourism, but i think the government knows that if it opens the borders now and Covid starts spreading, they will have to take the blame.

 

Will a vaccine fix this? Maybe. But no-one knows for how long the vaccine will protect you, maybe like flu you will need a shot every year. And of course, not everyone will get it.