When I die...

[Tarteso]

I have been married to a Thai wife for 7 years and I have not formalized inheritance.  The land, the house, the car, the motorcycles are in my wife's name.  She have my Bank account number and my cards, she’ll  withdraw all the money in a few hours after my death.  A relative in Europe will help for her widow's pension on a monthly , the day I die they know which Monk they can contact for my cremation.  My family in Europe agree and will receive the ashes.  I don't think there are problems. Daughter of another relation will take of she ... if she need something..

Edited November 20, 2020 by Tarteso

[Andy from Kent]

1 minute ago, Tarteso said:

I have been married to a Thai wife for 7 years and I have not formalized inheritance.  The land, the house, the car, the motorcycles are in my wife's name.  You have my checking account number and my cards, you can withdraw all the money in a few hours after my death.  A relative will see that she receives her widow's pension on a monthly basis.  I think the day I die they know which Monk they can contact for my cremation.  My family in Europe agree and will receive the ashes.  I don't think there are problems.

 

 

That's nice information but do you understand the OP was asking about a form  he thinks is required for his body  to be released  from the hospital  after he dies?   He's an American and you indicate you  from somewhere in the EU.   

 

Somehow,  I  think your post  is NOT going to help him.

[The Theory]

On 11/19/2020 at 11:02 AM, bankruatsteve said:

i am a US citizen and been with my partner over 20 years but not legally married.  I recall getting information somewhere that she will need some document from the US embassy to release my body to her (for cremation).  Is that a Thai requirement?  Something that can be ignored?  If not, is this document something that I can get ahead of time so that neither she nor my family in the states needs to be bothered with the bureaucracy. 

 

Didn't know where to post this and TV search not much help as usual.

 

 

 

we love you. We don't want you to go away. Not too soon. 

[CMBob]

I am a US citizen, had the same questions as the OP, and contacted the US Consulate to ask about the procedure.  This is what I was told and believe to be accurate:

(1)  The body of a US citizen will not be released to anybody without the release letter from the US Embassy/Consulate.

(2)  If the deceased has a valid Will which designates a Personal Representative (Executor) and it's presented to the Embassy/Consulate, they will honor it and skip

the next-of-kin search mentioned in the Embassy website.  Obviously, in the OP's case (as in mine), name your Thai friend as the executor and include specific 

language that this Thai executor is given full authority to handle your remains.  Once seen by the Embassy/Consulate, the release letter will be provided and your

Thai friend can handle disposition of your remains.  End of story.

 

If you don't have a valid Will that your Thai friend can present, then the "next-of-kin" routine is what happens.  That adds delay and, should one choose to go that route (no Will)

and want your US friends/relatives being saddled with the responsibility, at least give the Embassy/Consulate a break and enroll in the Step Program or at least make sure

you've inserted the "emergency contact" information on page 3-4 of your US passport.  Presuming the Embassy/Consulate is satisfied they've found your next-of-kin as provided

by law and have received notarized documents from that next-of-kin, then and only then will they issue the release letter.  

 

The Embassy/Consulate will not issue a release letter in the event your Thai friend presents a hand-written letter about the topic.  It must be a valid Will.   

[onekoolguy]

I am in a similar situation.

Recently did a will and asked the attorney what she would need?

He put language in the will to give her power to cremate the body and dispose of ashes.

 

[scorecard]

12 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Totally agree and have done that myself.  Release of my body, I am informed, cannot be determined by the will - only the executor of my US will.

And the police processes.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, onekoolguy said:

I am in a similar situation.

Recently did a will and asked the attorney what she would need?

He put language in the will to give her power to cremate the body and dispose of ashes.

 

How your body is cremated, where the ashes go is obviously personal, however I doubt many folks know that cremation in Thailand can be expensive and it can be very low cost.

 

My own case, I discussed this years ago with my Thai son (my only child) and his Thai wife and I made it plain that my wish is they find a temple nearby which charged very low price to do the cremation, in fact I asked them to do some 'research' on this quickly. They found several temples which charge 30,000Baht to cremation a non-Thai body, and one which was 20,000Baht. These charges don't of course include parties or food etc. All of the above is in my Thai will; low-cost cremation/no party.

 

For a good reason I asked my son's wife to tell her siblings about this, especially her older sister and brother. Why? because I know very well that they will push hard for a big party (they're tough and in your face demanding and my D-I-L is frightened of them).

 

Instant response D-I-Ls big sister said she will demand 500,000Baht for a big cremation event and big party, because it will raise the family status, big party shows the family has big money. (Also in the picture is that D-I-S's big sister has a history of mismanaging family money.)

 

My son they got into the discussion and said "NO, that's not what my dad wants'. His wife's sister responded 'not his business'.

 

Son, who is not intimated by his in-laws said, NO it will be a simple event and there's no further discussion, ever.

 

I deliberately prompted all of this discussion in advance because I know well D-I-Ls family will try to take over and make it a 'big event'. I wanted this resolved before it becomes a problem. 

 

Son & his wife know why I have made this wish and they are fully accepting of my wishes; I want 99% of the funds I leave to be used for the education of my 3 granddaughters.

[scorecard]

Just now, scorecard said:

How your body is cremated, where the ashes go is obviously personal, however I doubt many folks know that cremation in Thailand can be expensive and it can be very low cost.

 

My own case, I discussed this years ago with my Thai son (my only child) and his Thai wife and I made it plain that my wish is they find a temple nearby which charged very low price to do the cremation, in fact I asked them to do some 'research' on this quickly. They found several temples which charge 30,000Baht to cremation a non-Thai body, and one which was 20,000Baht. These charges don't of course include parties or food etc. All of the above is in my Thai will; low-cost cremation/no party.

 

For a good reason I asked my son's wife to tell her siblings about this, especially her older sister and brother. Why? because I know very well that they will push hard for a big party (they're tough and in your face demanding and my D-I-L is frightened of them).

 

Instant response D-I-Ls big sister said she will demand 500,000Baht for a big cremation event and big party, because it will raise the family status, big party shows the family has big money. (Also in the picture is that D-I-S's big sister has a history of mismanaging family money.)

 

My son they got into the discussion and said "NO, that's not what my dad wants'. His wife's sister responded 'not his business'.

 

Son, who is not intimated by his in-laws said, NO it will be a simple event and there's no further discussion, ever.

 

I deliberately prompted all of this discussion in advance because I know well D-I-Ls family will try to take over and make it a 'big event'. I wanted this resolved before it becomes a problem. 

 

Son & his wife know why I have made this wish and they are fully accepting of my wishes; I want 99% of the funds I leave to be used for the education of my 3 granddaughters, all stated in my will.

 

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, CMBob said:

I am a US citizen, had the same questions as the OP, and contacted the US Consulate to ask about the procedure.  This is what I was told and believe to be accurate:

(1)  The body of a US citizen will not be released to anybody without the release letter from the US Embassy/Consulate.

(2)  If the deceased has a valid Will which designates a Personal Representative (Executor) and it's presented to the Embassy/Consulate, they will honor it and skip

the next-of-kin search mentioned in the Embassy website.  Obviously, in the OP's case (as in mine), name your Thai friend as the executor and include specific 

language that this Thai executor is given full authority to handle your remains.  Once seen by the Embassy/Consulate, the release letter will be provided and your

Thai friend can handle disposition of your remains.  End of story.

 

If you don't have a valid Will that your Thai friend can present, then the "next-of-kin" routine is what happens.  That adds delay and, should one choose to go that route (no Will)

and want your US friends/relatives being saddled with the responsibility, at least give the Embassy/Consulate a break and enroll in the Step Program or at least make sure

you've inserted the "emergency contact" information on page 3-4 of your US passport.  Presuming the Embassy/Consulate is satisfied they've found your next-of-kin as provided

by law and have received notarized documents from that next-of-kin, then and only then will they issue the release letter.  

 

The Embassy/Consulate will not issue a release letter in the event your Thai friend presents a hand-written letter about the topic.  It must be a valid Will.   

 

In addition to your point (1), first para above. Some embassies will, on your request note your wishes in terms of who should be / should not be contacted in the original country of the deceased.

 

In my own case I have recorded with my embassy that nobody is to be contacted/informed of my death in my birth country. 

 

When I recorded my wishes the consular staff member mentioned that this will make it easier for the processes towards Thai police actions, and the cremation much smoother and much faster. 

[bodga]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:14 PM, colinneil said:

Funny this topic has just appeared on TV, a few days ago i contacted the British embassy consular section with a query regarding when i die, You know they post on here but guess what... THEY never bothered to reply.

Dont  worry  theyll post again when they have a new transgender,  single parent, mixed race , special  needs ,disabled, one  legged minority ambassador  appointed.

[HAPPYNUFF]

My wife  here assures me  the deceased body will not be  released for burial/cremation to a common law wife, tho she doesnt know  how to get around that problem,   As others have suggested a visit to   your own embassy for advice  appears  the best idea.

Recently  near  us a farang , legally married to his wife here, died  at home.  He had refused medical treatment for a serious illness.

The wife  had a great deal of problem. Police ordered a post mortem  and a  full investigation of the death, for which the poor woman had to pay (many thousands of baht)   It took  her several weeks  to  get everything finalised, during which time her husbands body  was kept  at the mortuary.  It appears  if no  certificate as to cause of death is forthcoming, especially if one dies at home,  there will be problems

[brianthainess]

You need to make a power of attorney. A friend of mine has just died and his long time LB got his body. funeral is already underway.

Edited November 21, 2020 by brianthainess

[brianthainess]

On 11/19/2020 at 3:06 PM, Moonlover said:

They provided, on TVF, all the information that you should need last August. See:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913372/Information_Relating_to_Deaths_in_Thailand_-_August_2020.pdf

Nothing i could see on this gives information about getting the body released if not married, as is what req in Thailand. You will need to make a power of attorney.

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:43 PM, bankruatsteve said:

So, whatever it is that Thai requires must be easy to get.  I am looking for what is the form or document that the Thai gov. requires so I know what to ask for.

I'm tired of reading the lame responses. It's a good topic. I'd like to know too. Would an email to the embassy get answered? I'd visit and ask, but I wouldn't know what to put down as my reason to make an appointment. I hope you'll start a new thread when you find out titled something like, 'Documents and Permits Required for USA Expat Cremation'.

Edited November 21, 2020 by AgMech Cowboy

[polpott]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:38 PM, bwpage3 said:

Getting married after 20 years together is just a 30 baht piece of paper.

 

Why is that such a big deal?

As another poster indicated, I am still married in the UK and am unable to get a divorce.

[ubonjoe]

30 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

I'm tired of reading the lame responses. It's a good topic. I'd like to know too. Would an email to the embassy get answered? I'd visit and ask, but I wouldn't know what to put down as my reason to make an appointment. I hope you'll start a new thread when you find out titled something like, 'Documents and Permits Required for USA Expat Cremation'.

Form page 2 of this topic.

On 11/19/2020 at 7:15 PM, BTempleman said:

Go to the source for your information.

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/death-of-a-u-s-citizen/

 

 

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Nothing i could see on this gives information about getting the body released if not married, as is what req in Thailand. You will need to make a power of attorney.

I guess that makes sense if one is not married, but is in a stable partnership. However, if one is not in any kind of relationship, why bother?

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

I'm tired of reading the lame responses. It's a good topic. I'd like to know too. Would an email to the embassy get answered? I'd visit and ask, but I wouldn't know what to put down as my reason to make an appointment. I hope you'll start a new thread when you find out titled something like, 'Documents and Permits Required for USA Expat Cremation'.

I had previously sent a question via the embassy's web site but did not get a definitive answer.  I recently asked again with specific question (codicil to my US will) but no response as yet.

[Andy from Kent]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Form page 2 of this topic.

 

 

 

Thank you ubonjoe.

 

That download loaded perfectly.

 

[billd766]

As a Brit I looked up the British embassy in BKK and found this link on deaths and what to do.

 

https://www.gov.uk/browse/births-deaths-marriages/death

 

https://www.gov.uk/when-someone-dies

 

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/death-abroad?step-by-step-nav=4f1fe77d-f43b-4581-baf9-e2600e2a2b7a

 

For enquiries that are not about consular issues, email [email protected]

 

Something to put on my ToDo list for next week.

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

However, if one is not in any kind of relationship, why bother?

Right. Let the authorities deal with the disposal of unclaimed bodies. Who really cares .. sadly.

[NancyL]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:03 PM, Tarteso said:

I have been married to a Thai wife for 7 years and I have not formalized inheritance.  The land, the house, the car, the motorcycles are in my wife's name.  She have my Bank account number and my cards, she’ll  withdraw all the money in a few hours after my death.  A relative in Europe will help for her widow's pension on a monthly , the day I die they know which Monk they can contact for my cremation.  My family in Europe agree and will receive the ashes.  I don't think there are problems. Daughter of another relation will take of she ... if she need something..

Bank accounts are suppose to be frozen by the bank upon the death of the account holder, including joint accounts.  Your wife could get into trouble if she withdraws money after your death.  In truth, many get away with this, but if someone complains, she has a problem.  The best course of action is to have a Final Will.  Why do so many resist this?  As mentioned, a Final Will doesn't have to be drafted by a lawyer and I've seen banks accepted homemade Final Wills, even those drawn up only in English.

[Tarteso]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

Bank accounts are suppose to be frozen by the bank upon the death of the account holder, including joint accounts.  Your wife could get into trouble if she withdraws money after your death.  In truth, many get away with this, but if someone complains, she has a problem.  The best course of action is to have a Final Will.  Why do so many resist this?  As mentioned, a Final Will doesn't have to be drafted by a lawyer and I've seen banks accepted homemade Final Wills, even those drawn up only in English.

I didn’t know that risk and that procedure.  I am taking more information about the Final Will...Thanks a lot. 

[lungbing]

And just who is going to inform the bank that you're dead?

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

Finally got response from the US embassy.  They said my Thai "wife" just needs to present my passport and US Will which will have codicil added saying she will be handling my funeral.  Whew.

[JimGant]

20 hours ago, Tarteso said:

Your wife could get into trouble if she withdraws money after your death. 

Doubtful. Particularly if your wife is sole beneficiary in your Will, also happens to be the executor, and there is no one contesting your estate and the validity of your Will (which probably cuts all your mistresses out of the pattern, if all they have is "he promised."). Anyway, banks don't marry-up death notices (which they don't receive, in any event) with active accounts. So, set up online banking so that a few key strokes after your death has your money transferred into her account; do this for the joint account also, as there have been reports of joint accounts being frozen. And, make sure your wife is co-signatory on your account, which makes transfer matters even more kosher, plus it allows her to transfer your funds to her account with an in-person visit to the bank, should online be difficult for her.

 

Bottom line: A fait accompli transfer to the sole beneficiary of your Will has no aggrieved party, except lawyers out of a fee, so it's unlikely such a transfer, without malice, would generate any legal action. And, if you read through all the Will threads on this forum, you'll find that probate is NOT an absolute requirement, as long as your estate is not being contested (the lawyer mafia, of course, disputes this interpretation of the Code).

 

But, act quickly. Many bank managers are confused by what they've been told by the lawyer mafia. A bird in the hand is certainly worth more than a 50,000 baht probate fee.

[Tarteso]

18 hours ago, lungbing said:

And just who is going to inform the bank that you're dead?

 

 

If you are a pensioner Social Security inform to the Bank, Almost they do in Spain.

[mahjongguy]

On 11/19/2020 at 3:14 PM, bankruatsteve said:

I am a US citizen.  The first thing done when a foreigner dies is to inform the respective embassy.  i haven't received a straight answer from the US embassy as to what is needed to release the body to my "wife" and would like to preempt whatever that might be.

The U.S. Embassy absolutely requires signature from next of kin regarding disposal of remains. I don't know if  this rule is forced upon them by the Thai government.  

 

Since I am not married, cannot be married under Thai law, I have a Thai Will which states that my Thai partner should be treated as my next of kin in every matter. 

 

Attached to that Will is a letter to American Citizen Services which repeats that request/demand, and states my preference for local cremation, to be arranged by my partner.

 

I've been told that I'm "good to go".     ???? 

Edited November 23, 2020 by mahjongguy

[bankruatsteve]

28 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

I've been told that I'm "good to go".

If the embassy told you that, then you probably are.  Otherwise, it is my understanding from the embassy that they will identify NOK from the states and that is what can take a while.

[mahjongguy]

I emailed the question to ACS an hour ago. They replied that in my case, with my Thai partner named as executor of my Thai Will, there should be no issues.

 

Quote

In the event of your passing, your partner should present us with the original Will, his or her ID, and your passport. We would then provide the authorized release letter to your partner so that he or she could receive your body. Once the funeral is completed, your partner will need to provide us with the original Thai death certificate. We will then complete what is the called the Consular Report of Death. We normally provide 20 originals to the next of kin or designated representative.