NanLaew Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 6 hours ago, RJRS1301 said: Those named in the reports, will now be referred for further investigation and possible prosecution, however this report took four years, and it could be a decade before any criminal prosecutions begin. And another ten or fifteen years for the whole lamentably long and sad procedure to come to any conclusion by which time most officers and NCO's found responsible will have either passed away or be in such a frail physical and mental state that their defense lawyers will successfully argue that any custodial sentence would 'mean a premature end to life' and deny them their human rights. 'twas ever thus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) ! Edited November 20, 2020 by mark131v Cant be arsed.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 25 minutes ago, Traubert said: Why was Aus in Afghanistan anyway? On Americas say so? To bring in democracy and organise free elections. Or bring back the stinger-missiles donated to the Taliban against Russian helicopter attacks in the 80’s... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scammed Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 someone that hasnt killed a human is a liability in battle, there is no telling if he is going to kill or flip out. not excusing executions of pow & civilians, its ultimately a selfish act by the commanders with no empathy for humans whatsoever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natai Beach Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Pilotman said: they don't look bad to me, they sound like people doing a job that few in society would be prepare to do, to defend democracy and the way of way of life that all the hand wringing liberals enjoy, but don't like to acknowledge the price. don't criticise unless you have served. Well, this is a quote from someone who served. He was there. I will listen to him. And backed up with video. Footage shot by members of 3 Squadron SAS during the unit’s 2012 rotation through Afghanistan. It shows the destruction of buildings, motorbikes and the shooting of dogs. “We try and say that we’re there to help and the Taliban are bad. But if we go in and we start destroying infrastructure or destroying their private vehicles and burning down their homes it doesn’t really send the right message,” Chapman said. “They’re going to run straight back to the Taliban, who usually are not doing that.” https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/four-corners-sas-allegations-war-crimes/12028522?nw=0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Maybe we have (special forces) veterans here on TV and maybe they can elaborate. Obviously what happened is very bad and it should not happen. But in a way I would be surprised if not basically all front line soldiers become something like crazy or dehumanized or psychologically disturbed at some stage. How can you stay "normal" under those conditions? I was never in a war zone. But just by looking at some pictures and videos I get the idea being there must destroy the mind in some way. That is obviously no excuse. But I think the problem is war in itself. People get crazy in the war. I would love to see comments from veterans what they think about this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Natai Beach said: why did Australia declare war on Afghanistan? They went in along with USA and some other nations to change a culture about which they knew little, for the sake of minerals and resources and the USA Australia alliance. To keep a war machine operation for greedy individuals. Oppressing one culture and attempting to inflict another, a task attempted for too many years by too many countries including Russia and none have done anything except destroy and kill and maim War has never been declaref Edited November 20, 2020 by RJRS1301 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unblocktheplanet Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Maybe Oz shouldn't use the 'defence' of 'only following orders' of its Yank masters... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Natai Beach said: why did Australia declare war on Afghanistan? Australia did not declare war of Afghanistan, nor did the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RJRS1301 Posted November 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: Maybe we have (special forces) veterans here on TV and maybe they can elaborate. Obviously what happened is very bad and it should not happen. But in a way I would be surprised if not basically all front line soldiers become something like crazy or dehumanized or psychologically disturbed at some stage. How can you stay "normal" under those conditions? I was never in a war zone. But just by looking at some pictures and videos I get the idea being there must destroy the mind in some way. That is obviously no excuse. But I think the problem is war in itself. People get crazy in the war. I would love to see comments from veterans what they think about this. The rate of defence personnel who suicide is an indictment of the manner in which governments subject “defence” people to unspeakable trauma . Repeated trauma experienced by these people has a detrimental affect on them and their families is generational, mental health , violence, alcohol and drug misuse and suicide 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 52 minutes ago, Natai Beach said: Well, this is a quote from someone who served. He was there. I will listen to him. And backed up with video. Footage shot by members of 3 Squadron SAS during the unit’s 2012 rotation through Afghanistan. It shows the destruction of buildings, motorbikes and the shooting of dogs. “We try and say that we’re there to help and the Taliban are bad. But if we go in and we start destroying infrastructure or destroying their private vehicles and burning down their homes it doesn’t really send the right message,” Chapman said. “They’re going to run straight back to the Taliban, who usually are not doing that.” https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/four-corners-sas-allegations-war-crimes/12028522?nw=0 That video doesn't back anything up. It's what they call 'chuntering'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post simple1 Posted November 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Pilotman said: standards of what exactly, killing people? You fight fire with more intense fire or there is no point to any of it, a truth that politicos always fail to acknowledge . Which is besides the point, the OP is not talking to combat operations, but deliberate, targeted killing of restrained people and civilians under orders for the purpose of 'bloodying; i.e. war crimes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Trolling graphic removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldera Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 There's only one appropriate form of punishment for a piece of pond scum masquerading as a soldier who brings this amount of shame on his country. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, evadgib said: That video doesn't back anything up. It's what they call 'chuntering'. The video and the 39 civilians is only the tip of the iceberg. Systematic and selective cleansing of local population was witnessed and reported since 2012. Quote from link: “Since 2001 more than 400 former and serving Australian Defence personnel have taken their own lives.” https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-16/australian-kevin-frost-who-raised-afghanistan-war-crimes-dead/11802068 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sujo Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Pilotman said: great in theory, doesn't always compute in actual combat. Some things are just not that black or white. What combat. The adf has said there was none. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sujo Posted November 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Pilotman said: they don't look bad to me, they sound like people doing a job that few in society would be prepare to do, to defend democracy and the way of way of life that all the hand wringing liberals enjoy, but don't like to acknowledge the price. don't criticise unless you have served. Killing unnarmed civilians and prisoners of war so that a person can get used to killing is your norm? Go figure. no they were not doing a job, thats why they have been charged. are you saying the head of the armed forces is wrong? You do know he has served dont you. Is he a liberal? btw, some of us that served dont need to shout it from the rooftops, but we know right from wrong, its sad that you do not and give a blatant free pass for murder just because we wear a uniform. Edited November 20, 2020 by Sujo 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 A post containing disguised profanity has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Cameron Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 War is war, that's what happens in areas of conflict,somtimes innocent people are killed,just remember the 'Taliban' don't wear uniforms. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said: Maybe Oz shouldn't use the 'defence' of 'only following orders' of its Yank masters... Is the Australian gov't/Australian military actually saying that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post simple1 Posted November 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Edwin Cameron said: War is war, that's what happens in areas of conflict, somtimes innocent people are killed, just remember the 'Taliban' don't wear uniforms. I suggest you and some other posters read the OP before posting. There is no mention of collateral damage, unintended killing of innocents, but deliberate one on one targeting of POWs and civilians for the purpose of 'bloodying'. In today's media here in Oz it is claimed some of the murderers (9) will be offered immunity to testify against those who ordered the unlawful killings; war crimes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 9 hours ago, Caldera said: There's only one appropriate form of punishment for a piece of pond scum masquerading as a soldier who brings this amount of shame on his country. A trial and before that a THOROUGH investigation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pravda Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Shouldn't NATO bomb Australia as they did with Serbia for war crimes back in 1999? 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Did you order the code red? You're damn right I did ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RJRS1301 Posted November 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said: Maybe Oz shouldn't use the 'defence' of 'only following orders' of its Yank masters... Australian government has Not used that defence. The head of the services has accepted and acknowledged the report findings publicly Edited November 20, 2020 by RJRS1301 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Salerno Posted November 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Edwin Cameron said: War is war Correct. And murder is murder regardless of the geolocation and the circumstances therein. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Pravda said: Shouldn't NATO bomb Australia as they did with Serbia for war crimes back in 1999? Yugoslavian wars were under UN troops, read blue helmets with limited fire power performed by regular troops. Afghanistan war was under NATO command with only special forces with unlimited fire power. War criminals of NATO will never be under trial in Den Hague because they don’t care about the conventions of Geneva. The mass crimes back in 1999 were ethnic cleansing, mass raping, etc. on a larger scale and frequency on national or regional level. OP is about unlawful executions, random unlawful killings on regiment level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Australia had 29,000 troop movements through Afghanistan. 29 individuals have been referred for further investigation for alleged war crimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pravda Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 39 minutes ago, Thorgal said: Yugoslavian wars were under UN troops, read blue helmets with limited fire power performed by regular troops. Afghanistan war was under NATO command with only special forces with unlimited fire power. War criminals of NATO will never be under trial in Den Hague because they don’t care about the conventions of Geneva. The mass crimes back in 1999 were ethnic cleansing, mass raping, etc. on a larger scale and frequency on national or regional level. OP is about unlawful executions, random unlawful killings on regiment level. Which is war crimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 47 minutes ago, Pravda said: Which is war crimes Yes. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/08/afghanistan-no-justice-thousands-civilians-killed-usnato-operations/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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