How long does it take to find a buyer and sell a condominium (in normal times, not now)

[Pravda]

7 minutes ago, ezzra said:

I live and own couple of mid size units in a fairly well managed and well run big condo in mid Sukhumvit, last month i have decided to sell one of the units that was rented so far, i have enlisted the help of a thai chappy who knows how to refurbish a condo to appeal to local and foreign taste, took a month to complete and gave it to an agent to handle and within couple of weeks i had a young Thai couple of loved it and it was sold,

what i meant to say by that is that the right product, location and timing (and luck) is paramount when it buying and selling real estate in Thailand...

 

How much was refurbishment? 

 

Did a Thai couple pay with cash or loan? 

[OneMoreFarang]

16 minutes ago, ezzra said:

i have enlisted the help of a thai chappy who knows how to refurbish a condo to appeal to local and foreign taste, took a month to complete

Wow, that sounds great.

A friend, living in Thailand since 10 years (and speaking Thai), totally renovated a place he bought. It took over a year. And my current neighbor waited also about a year (or was it more?) to have his place redone completely.

In a way I imagine it should be possible to do that in a month (or worst maybe 2 or 3). But in reality it seems it often takes forever.

[Airalee]

24 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Wow, that sounds great.

A friend, living in Thailand since 10 years (and speaking Thai), totally renovated a place he bought. It took over a year. And my current neighbor waited also about a year (or was it more?) to have his place redone completely.

In a way I imagine it should be possible to do that in a month (or worst maybe 2 or 3). But in reality it seems it often takes forever.

Actually, it sounds kind of vague.  
 

What price range are we talking about?
 

How big is “mid sized”?

 

What is considered “mid Sukhumvit”?  Ekkamai?  Udomsuk?

 

How large is a “large complex”. 300 units?  1500?

 

What exactly appeals to “Thais and foreigners”?

 

Did it include furniture?  Again...what appeals to Thais and foreigners.

 

A “Thai chappie” did the remodel in a month?  That sounds pretty fast.  How much did it cost?  What was the quality of materials?  What was included in the remodel?  Was it custom or off the shelf stuff?  I myself would be a little concerned about using a “jack of all trades”.

 

So far, completely gutting and renovating a brand new condo myself, I’m a little over the 2 month mark and it should be finished by Christmas hopefully.  Hopefully.  And that’s being on top of the vendors constantly.  

Edited November 22, 2020 by Airalee

[Pravda]

7 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

No you didn’t live rent free for 5 1/2 years

If you invested the 7 mb principal, lived off the interest, kept the 7mb then you would have lived rent free and still have the initial principle of 7 mb

but u are down 7 mb now. 

 

7mb is around 20k condo. 

 

What investment gives you 20k a month. Stop dreaming. 

 

He bought for 7mb and sold for 7mb and is down 7mb? 

 

You seem to be great with numbers. Any job openings at TAT? 

 

 

[cmarshall]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I don't understand why Thais do that, in my place there must be 50 condos empty unused for many years, I looked at 10 and they looked unused for 10+ years, might as well sell them at half price than keep paying common fees

Several reasons why they do that.  It is typical in low wage countries that assets are held in real property, e.g. real estate, gold, rather than in securities as is the case in high-income countries.  Also, there hasn't been a property tax in Thailand.  One was supposed to go into effect a few years ago, but I gather that it has either been suspended or reduced to a trivial amount.  Maintenance costs in condos are kept too low to maintain the building adequately.  So, the out-of-pocket costs of carrying an empty apartment are low by comparison with first-world countries.  Thais therefore tend to view property as a store of value rather than a source of income.  

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Pravda said:

 

7mb is around 20k condo. 

 

What investment gives you 20k a month. Stop dreaming. 

 

He bought for 7mb and sold for 7mb and is down 7mb? 

 

You seem to be great with numbers. Any job openings at TAT? 

 

 

That's about 3 1/2 percent. Ten years ago he could have easily got an annuity that paid that, today he would probably get something less than that. 

 

Or he could have bought a S & P 500 index fund and don significantly better than that. 

 

That said, I would guess the rent would have been significantly more than 20K.

[cmarshall]

While we're on the subject, here's a local curiosity for which I have never found an adequate explanation.  The apartment that I rent is in a condo built on land under a thirty-year lease.  I think it must be in about year thirteen or fourteen at the moment.  So, what happens when the lease expires?  I assume that the lessor can then charge whatever he wishes to extend the lease which I would guess would be nearly equal to the market value of all the apartments.  If that is the case then "ownership" of the apartment amounts only to long-term rental.  Seems hard to understand why anyone would be under such circumstances.  Is it perhaps the case that the condo association typically has a right to renew the lease for a set period at a pre-determined rate?

 

As far as I am aware such arrangements are unknown in the US.

[tomazbodner]

On 11/21/2020 at 9:37 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

I am thinking about buying a condominium in the middle of Bangkok. And probably I will live there for the next 10 years or even longer.

But let's say in 10 years I want to sell it and use the money to buy another condominium somewhere on the beach.

How long does it normally (maybe in average) take to find a buyer and sell a condominium? Let's assume for this thread we talk about a good location and a condominium in good condition.

 

Does it take maybe 3 to 6 months to sell it? Or possibly a lot longer?

I guess it's always possible to sell something fast if the price is very low. That is not what I am asking for. I think about a reasonable sell price according to the market condition at that time.

2 weeks for my condo.

 

Then again, I was the buyer ????

[richard_smith237]

11 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

No you didn’t live rent free for 5 1/2 years

If you invested the 7 mb principal, lived off the interest, kept the 7mb then you would have lived rent free and still have the initial principle of 7 mb

but u are down 7 mb now. 

 

Sure you thought that one through???  How am I possibly 7MB down?

Could I have made 7 Million baht from a 7 Million baht investment in 5.5 years ?

 

 

Rent for the Condo was 35,000 baht per month...  5.5 years = 2,310,000 baht. 

 

Thats 2,310,000 baht we didn’t spend on rent (bought the condo for 7MB and sold it for 7MB). 

 

What investment can you make >2 Million baht off a 7 Million baht investment ????

What investment of 7 Million Baht yields 35,000 baht per month ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Sure you thought that one through???  How am I possibly 7MB down?

Could I have made 7 Million baht from a 7 Million baht investment in 5.5 years ?

 

 

Rent for the Condo was 35,000 baht per month...  5.5 years = 2,310,000 baht. 

 

Thats 2,310,000 baht we didn’t spend on rent (bought the condo for 7MB and sold it for 7MB). 

 

What investment can you make >2 Million baht off a 7 Million baht investment ????

What investment of 7 Million Baht yields 35,000 baht per month ?

 

 

 

That was hard...

 

[cmarshall]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Sure you thought that one through???  How am I possibly 7MB down?

Could I have made 7 Million baht from a 7 Million baht investment in 5.5 years ?

 

 

Rent for the Condo was 35,000 baht per month...  5.5 years = 2,310,000 baht. 

 

Thats 2,310,000 baht we didn’t spend on rent (bought the condo for 7MB and sold it for 7MB). 

 

What investment can you make >2 Million baht off a 7 Million baht investment ????

What investment of 7 Million Baht yields 35,000 baht per month ?

 

Was the 7 million baht proceeds net of transaction costs?  If so, your annualized rate of return was 5.16%.  That's an okay return, but not spectacular.  The S&P 500 got an annualized rr for the same period of about 10.3%.  Had you put your money in a low-cost S&P Index ETF you could have paid your rent, kept your principal, and walked away with another 2.3 million baht for your effort.

 

The real question is how much risk did the BKK condo ownership entail compared to the S&P 500.  Hard to figure that.

[Pravda]

How many people who are not Americans can invest in s&p. I'm a bit sick of hearing s&p. As a Canadian non resident I can't invest in s&p. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

Again, the best reason to own a condo is because you want to own a condo, not because you want to save money. Does anyone get marries to save money on hookers? Perhaps a few, but most guys get married because they want something of their own.

 

I want to own a condo, but I don't kid myself that it will be a great investment. It might be a great investment, and it might not be. Just like buying an index bund might or might not be. Best thing about a condo is you can live in it. Best thing about an index fund is selling takes minutes...

 

 

[cmarshall]

1 minute ago, Pravda said:

How many people who are not Americans can invest in s&p. I'm a bit sick of hearing s&p. As a Canadian non resident I can't invest in s&p. 

 

Don't be sick:

 

Alright then, let’s jump straight to the list of Top 7 Canadian ETFs, first on the list is the “Vanguard S&P 500 ETF” or VOO

https://www.personalfinancefreedom.com/top-7-canadian-etfs-you-should-own-in-2019/

 

Please do not construe this as a recommendation for a Canadian to buy an S&P 500 Index fund.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

While we're on the subject, here's a local curiosity for which I have never found an adequate explanation.  The apartment that I rent is in a condo built on land under a thirty-year lease.  I think it must be in about year thirteen or fourteen at the moment.  So, what happens when the lease expires?  I assume that the lessor can then charge whatever he wishes to extend the lease which I would guess would be nearly equal to the market value of all the apartments.  If that is the case then "ownership" of the apartment amounts only to long-term rental.  Seems hard to understand why anyone would be under such circumstances.  Is it perhaps the case that the condo association typically has a right to renew the lease for a set period at a pre-determined rate?

 

As far as I am aware such arrangements are unknown in the US.

I know such a case in Bangkok. The 30 years end in about 3 years. And that's it. Bye bye. Nothing!

But the "owner" told me she "bought" it for a very good price 27 years ago and all in all it was a good deal. She has no regrets. 

[cmarshall]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, the best reason to own a condo is because you want to own a condo, not because you want to save money. Does anyone get marries to save money on hookers? Perhaps a few, but most guys get married because they want something of their own.

 

 

Nope.  That's the worst reason to buy a condo which amounts to what?  Feeling middle-class?  Buying a place to live in is a financial decision.  If it isn't likely to pay off financially, then it is a bad decision, especially in BKK where the rental supply is endless.

Edited November 22, 2020 by cmarshall

[cmarshall]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I know such a case in Bangkok. The 30 years end in about 3 years. And that's it. Bye bye. Nothing!

But the "owner" told me she "bought" it for a very good price 27 years ago and all in all it was a good deal. She has no regrets. 

 

Hard to believe that anyone would buy an apartment with an expiration date.  What's worse, in my condo which as I say is probably in about year 14 of 30, the penthouse apartments were snapped up immediately and were kept empty during about the first five years or so that we lived here.  So, these things have a shelf life and they keep them empty?

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, cmarshall said:

 

Nope.  That's the worst reason to buy a condo which amounts to what?  Feeling middle-class.  Buying a place to live in is a financial decision.  If it isn't like to pay off financially, then it is a bad decision, especially in BKK where the rental supply is endless.

 

Not true. It's no different than buying anything else you want, like a nice car, boat or a nice watch. No one needs these things, but many people do want them. 

 

There is a benefit in owning your own home, beyond the investment value. Again, much the same as there is a difference between having a wife and using hookers, there's both an upside and a downside. 

 

You just have to understand why you're buying it.

 

 

[Pravda]

12 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Don't be sick:

 

Alright then, let’s jump straight to the list of Top 7 Canadian ETFs, first on the list is the “Vanguard S&P 500 ETF” or VOO

https://www.personalfinancefreedom.com/top-7-canadian-etfs-you-should-own-in-2019/

 

Please do not construe this as a recommendation for a Canadian to buy an S&P 500 Index fund.

 

Perhaps you don't get it. 

 

As a non resident of Canada I can't invest, period. 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

Perhaps you don't get it. 

 

As a non resident of Canada I can't invest, period. 

 

Are you a Canadian citizen? 

 

I'm a non resident of Canada and I'm invested in the S & P 500...

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Yellowtail
as

[OneMoreFarang]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, the best reason to own a condo is because you want to own a condo, not because you want to save money. Does anyone get marries to save money on hookers? Perhaps a few, but most guys get married because they want something of their own.

 

I want to own a condo, but I don't kid myself that it will be a great investment. It might be a great investment, and it might not be. Just like buying an index bund might or might not be. Best thing about a condo is you can live in it. Best thing about an index fund is selling takes minutes...

I think that is a good reason.

 

I.e. I can renovate and furnish it exactly in the way I like. I.e. in my case currently I live in a studio. I like the idea about one big room (+ kitchen +bath). If I buy my own place I can get my one big room even with a 70 to 100 sqm apartment. Most apartments of that size are 1 or 2 bedroom apartments, sometimes even 2 bathrooms. That's not what I want so I can look around and maybe one day I will find the layout which I like. Or I buy something (maybe 20 years old which needs renovation), rip it apart and renovate it exactly like I want.

 

And yes, I am aware that the layout which I like is maybe not the layout which will sell best 10 or 15 years later. I have to live with that.

 

And, like I mentioned above, I still think about it and haven't made up my mind yet. That's why we have this thread and the interesting input of many people with different opinions. 

[cmarshall]

2 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

Perhaps you don't get it. 

 

As a non resident of Canada I can't invest, period. 

 

Indeed, I don't even begin to get it.  So, you are a Canadian citizen living abroad, probably in Thailand.  In your TD brokerage account or wherever back home in Saskatchewan, they refuse to let you buy the Vanguard S&P 500 Index Fund?  Or do they not let you maintain a brokerage account back in Hockeyland at all?  If that's the case, is there some reason you cannot open an offshore brokerage account, such as at Schwab, if you really want to buy the S&P?  

[soalbundy]

On 11/21/2020 at 9:37 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

I am thinking about buying a condominium in the middle of Bangkok. And probably I will live there for the next 10 years or even longer.

But let's say in 10 years I want to sell it and use the money to buy another condominium somewhere on the beach.

How long does it normally (maybe in average) take to find a buyer and sell a condominium? Let's assume for this thread we talk about a good location and a condominium in good condition.

 

Does it take maybe 3 to 6 months to sell it? Or possibly a lot longer?

I guess it's always possible to sell something fast if the price is very low. That is not what I am asking for. I think about a reasonable sell price according to the market condition at that time.

Depends on whether rising sea levels have reached the ground floor units or not.

[soalbundy]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Not true. It's no different than buying anything else you want, like a nice car, boat or a nice watch. No one needs these things, but many people do want them. 

 

There is a benefit in owning your own home, beyond the investment value. Again, much the same as there is a difference between having a wife and using hookers, there's both an upside and a downside. 

 

You just have to understand why you're buying it.

 

 

Is it still being looked after/maintained after 10 years or is it looking a bit like the wife...run down?

[cmarshall]

21 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Not true. It's no different than buying anything else you want, like a nice car, boat or a nice watch. No one needs these things, but many people do want them. 

 

There is a benefit in owning your own home, beyond the investment value. Again, much the same as there is a difference between having a wife and using hookers, there's both an upside and a downside. 

 

You just have to understand why you're buying it.

 

You're apparently unaware that you haven't even given any reason at all to buy a condo.  As far as I know one cannot rent a watch, so that's not relevant.  Don't know if boats are rentable other than short-term.  The question is not whether you want to drive a nice car or not, which we might put down to irrational preference and leave it at that, but whether you should rent the nice car to drive or buy the nice car to drive, which is strictly a financial decision that will come down to comparing one cost-of-use number to another.  Similarly, we are not talking about living in a nice home which again comes down to personal preference.  Since apartments of any quality can be either rented or bought here in BKK, the decision to buy or rent is purely financial and as with the car, comes down to comparing the long-term cost-of-occupancy number between the two alternatives.

 

That's a pretty basic point to understand.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by cmarshall

[Pravda]

34 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Are you a Canadian citizen? 

 

I'm a non resident of Canada and I'm invested in the S & P 500...

 

 

 

 

Are you a non resident for tax purposes? 

 

Big difference 

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

Are you a non resident for tax purposes? 

 

Big difference 

 

No, I'm a non resident of Canada because I'm a citizen of the US.

 

Are you not able to answer a simple question?

[Pravda]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

 

No, I'm a non resident of Canada because I'm a citizen of the US.

 

Are you not able to answer a simple question?

 

I am a citizen and so what? 

[Yellowtail]

31 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

You're apparently unaware that you haven't even given any reason at all to buy a condo.  As far as I know one cannot rent a watch, so that's not relevant.  Don't know if boats are rentable other than short-term.  The question is not whether you want to drive a nice car or not, which we might put down to irrational preference and leave it at that, but whether you should rent the nice car to drive or buy the nice car to drive, which is strictly a financial decision that will come down to comparing one cost-of-use number to another.  Similarly, we are not talking about living in a nice home which again comes down to personal preference.  Since apartments of any quality can be either rented or bought here in BKK, the decision to buy or rent is purely financial and as with the car, comes down to comparing the long-term cost-of-occupancy number between the two alternatives.

 

That's a pretty basic point to understand.

 

 

Perhaps not a good reason to you. And yes, you can rent watches, boats, cars, most anything.

 

I see any number of reasons owning a condo is better than renting, and I see reasons why renting is better. In a rental, I (generally) would not be able to paint, replace carpet, install new AC, renovate the kitchen or bathroom, knock a wall out, put a wall in, install a hot-tub on the balcony and any number of other things that I could do if I owned the property. 

 

I see value in being able to do these things, you don't, whatever.

 

To be clear, I do not now nor have I ever owned a condo.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

I am a citizen and so what? 

 

So I'm trying to understand why you are not able to invest in the S & P as you claimed.  I don't think it makes sense.