Australia to dismiss at least 10 soldiers over Afghan killings - ABC

[simple1]

9 minutes ago, kingdong said:

<SNIP> perhaps you could explain the source of your knowledge?

 

Given you apparent interest in the matter I find it unbelievable you haven't informed yourself prior to posting. Accordingly I can only conclude you're trolling. For those who haven't read the report linked below, but heavily redacted...

 

https://afghanistaninquiry.defence.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-11/IGADF-Afghanistan-Inquiry-Public-Release-Version.pdf

 

Alternatively...

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/afghanistan-war-crimes-report-igadf-paul-brereton-released/12896234

Edited November 27, 2020 by simple1

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

Given you apparent interest in the matter I find it unbelievable you haven't informed yourself prior to posting. Accordingly I can only conclude you're trolling. For those who haven't read the report...

 

https://afghanistaninquiry.defence.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-11/IGADF-Afghanistan-Inquiry-Public-Release-Version.pdf

Cheers if you,d provided the link before it would have saved all that palaver.

[evadgib]

Of peripheral interest to this board (except Sujo) :

FPDA Defence Ministers’ joint statement

Quote

Defence Ministers from Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore and United Kingdom reaffirmed their nations’ continued commitment to the Five Power Defence Arrangements (FPDA).

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by evadgib

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

Unfortunately its not all black and white in armed conflicts,especially involving terrorists,still you obviously know best so perhaps you could explain the source of your knowledge?

Try reading the report of the investigation, including those sas soldiers that were there.

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

Cheers if you,d provided the link before it would have saved all that palaver.

Perhaps educate yourself first.

[Sujo]

17 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Of peripheral interest to this board:

FPDA Defence Ministers’ joint statement

 

Where does that address the murders the investigators found?

 

instead of pripheral how about direct.

 

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/australian-military-official-apologizes-to-afghans/2049883

Edited November 27, 2020 by Sujo

[mark131v]

For the snowflakes who are happy to sit in judgement who have never walked in their boots and who struggle to understand how these things can happen Vicey  nails it at about 18 minutes or so

 

▶ 45:15 NOW PLAYING Royal Marines: Mission Afghanistan: Episode 1 - Deadly Underfoot Royal Marines (youtube.com)

 

 

When you are doing multiple tours of these <deleted>holes and losing friends to death or mutilation you become desensitised, not condoning the actions and if guilty they deserve all they get but I can understand it

Edited November 27, 2020 by mark131v

[tifino]

13 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Of peripheral interest to this board:

FPDA Defence Ministers’ joint statement

 

Not relevant to the SAS situation. The 5 nations Agreement revolves around the protection of Malaysia/Singapore using particular elements of those participating nations...

Combined Nations at the IADS (Integrated Allied Defence System) radar surveillance on base.

For Australia specific, there is only RAAF (at Butterworth) comprising  Maritime aircraft (Operation Gateway) and direct RAAF logistic (technical/support) on base.

The Army component is and has always been the Involvement of RCB (Rifle Company Butterworth) utilising regular rotation of visiting elements of RAR personnel, never SAS. 

 

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, mark131v said:

For the snowflakes who are happy to sit in judgement who have never walked in their boots and who struggle to understand how these things can happen Vicey  nails it at about 18 minutes or so

 

(63) Royal Marines: Mission Afghanistan: Episode 1 - Deadly Underfoot - YouTube

 

When you are doing multiple tours of these <deleted>holes and losing friends to death or mutilation you become desensitised, not condoning the actions and if guilty they deserve all they get but I can understand it

You're preaching to 'wokeys' mate. 

[kingdong]

10 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Try reading the report of the investigation, including those sas soldiers that were there.

Didn,t mention the report merely commented on the realities of conflict,so troll elsewhere.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, tifino said:

Not relevant to the SAS situation. The 5 nations Agreement revolves around the protection of Malaysia/Singapore using particular elements of those participating nations...

Combined Nations at the IADS (Integrated Allied Defence System) radar surveillance on base.

For Australia specific, there is only RAAF (at Butterworth) comprising  Maritime aircraft (Operation Gateway) and direct RAAF logistic (technical/support) on base.

The Army component is and has always been the Involvement of RCB (Rifle Company Butterworth) utilising regular rotation of visiting elements of RAR personnel, never SAS. 

 

Perhaps I should have bolded Peripheral.

[simple1]

8 hours ago, kingdong said:

Didn,t mention the report merely commented on the realities of conflict,so troll elsewhere.

 

The topic is not related to the 'reality of conflict', but to Australian SF using criminal methods, under orders, 'bloodying'. If 'bloodying' is considered the reality of war and acceptable behaviour by Western military forces, please advise.   You could of easily ascertained for yourself, of alleged war crimes which were the outcome of a four year investigation. The investigation took so long due to systematic coverups by the accused and their colleagues which in itself is criminal activity. As SUJO mentioned, it would have saved a lot of time if you and to be fair, others, informed yourselves as to context, prior to posting. 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Lacessit said:

If there was one thing I learned in my mercifully brief acquaintance with the military, it is that the army values obedience and the following of orders without question above everything else.. To suggest guys in the army are not followers of rules is laughable. Perhaps they are not lovers of rules; however, they had better be if they know what is good for them. That's why I got out as soon as I could, officers don't take kindly to having their intelligence questioned.

Perhaps you are right, most are in it for the thrill. I don't have a problem with killing enemy combatants in a war. However, when the thrill becomes executing innocent civilians in cold blood, that to me is a loss of moral compass civilized countries cannot afford.

I never said "most are in it for the thrill". For every man in a combat unit there are several in support units, and life for them is not "thrilling". To them the military is, IMO, just a job.

 

Sigh- I never said we didn't follow rules ( one would not last long if one didn't ) I said that guys didn't join up because they loved rules. It's not necessary to love rules to follow them.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Begs the question of why they are there in the first place, doesn't it?

Permit me to doubt shooting unarmed civilians, as an exercise in ensuring a new recruit achieves their first kill, is a legitimate task. That's cowardice, not bravery.

Unless things have changed a lot no SAS member should be a "new recruit". They used to be recruited from the ranks when I was in the military.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, kingdong said:

Did i say those units were responsible for atrocities ?no you did,i pointed out they were militarily successful in doing their jobs.as for your allegation regarding the conduct of aussie sf,s were you there?

No one has been convicted of anything yet. Perhaps we could wait till someone has been before passing judgement. I suppose that is too much to hope for.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Begs the question of why they are there in the first place, doesn't it?

Permit me to doubt shooting unarmed civilians, as an exercise in ensuring a new recruit achieves their first kill, is a legitimate task. That's cowardice, not bravery.

Excellent question. Al Qaeda hadn't attacked Australia to my knowledge, so why are the Australian SAS still in Afghanistan?

Let America fight its own wars without us getting involved in them for decades.

I have no idea why Australia would still be there, other than for training purposes.

[Olmate]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent question. Al Qaeda hadn't attacked Australia to my knowledge, so why are the Australian SAS still in Afghanistan?

Let America fight its own wars without us getting involved in them for decades.

I have no idea why Australia would still be there, other than for training purposes.

NATO

[Sujo]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent question. Al Qaeda hadn't attacked Australia to my knowledge, so why are the Australian SAS still in Afghanistan?

Let America fight its own wars without us getting involved in them for decades.

I have no idea why Australia would still be there, other than for training purposes.

Either with us or against us, kind of determined oz would go. 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, Olmate said:

NATO

OK, but why is NATO there many years after Al Qaeda was defeated in Afghanistan? The Afghan army isn't going to invade Europe any time soon.

[simple1]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

OK, but why is NATO there many years after Al Qaeda was defeated in Afghanistan? The Afghan army isn't going to invade Europe any time soon.

 

October 2020:

 

Al-Qaeda is still "heavily embedded" within the Taliban in Afghanistan, in spite of a historic US-Taliban agreement earlier this year, a senior United Nations official has told the BBC.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54711452

 

Plus IS is active in Afghanistan

[SomchaiCNX]

18 hours ago, Sujo said:

Perhaps educate yourself first.

I did, I spend 11 years in the army, 9 years in the elite as an NCO and a couple years more in the reserve after I left active duty. Did not read the report, can very well imagen what happened and how the report was written. It happened before and it will happen again.

[Sujo]

4 hours ago, SomchaiCNX said:

I did, I spend 11 years in the army, 9 years in the elite as an NCO and a couple years more in the reserve after I left active duty. Did not read the report, can very well imagen what happened and how the report was written. It happened before and it will happen again.

So you didnt read the report and its sad you dont umderstand it. Sas thinks its wrong. 

[SomchaiCNX]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

So you didnt read the report and its sad you dont umderstand it. Sas thinks its wrong. 

I (and some others on this forum) understand very well what went wrong, but unlike you I (we) don't need to read the report for that.

Edited November 28, 2020 by SomchaiCNX

[Sujo]

4 hours ago, SomchaiCNX said:

I (and some others on this forum) understand very well what went wrong, but unlike you I (we) don't need to read the report for that.

Education is a wonderful thing. Those that where there considered it wrong, ex sas commander considered it wrong, army chief considered it wrong, 4 year inquiry with witnesses consider it wrong.

 

By your own admission you know nothing of what occurred, but you disagree, got it..

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, SomchaiCNX said:

I (and some others on this forum) understand very well what went wrong, but unlike you I (we) don't need to read the report for that.

While I was not in any "elite" unit, I learned that the desire to "cover one's butt" is high in the officer class, and I too understand very well what went "wrong", and likewise do not need to read the report to understand what is likely in it.

When senior NCOs and officers are prosecuted for failure to control the troops under their command I will have more faith that the inquiry isn't the usual cover up.

 

Sadly non military will probably never understand what goes on in higher military circles, or that superior officers are responsible for everything that happens below them.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

October 2020:

 

Al-Qaeda is still "heavily embedded" within the Taliban in Afghanistan, in spite of a historic US-Taliban agreement earlier this year, a senior United Nations official has told the BBC.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54711452

 

Plus IS is active in Afghanistan

Given the allies are not winning against the taliban as long as a certain country provides safe refuge, something needs to change or they are just wasting lives of good men, and throwing good money after bad, IMO.

[kingdong]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No one has been convicted of anything yet. Perhaps we could wait till someone has been before passing judgement. I suppose that is too much to hopre for

 

[Salerno]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent question. Al Qaeda hadn't attacked Australia to my knowledge, so why are the Australian SAS still in Afghanistan?

Let America fight its own wars without us getting involved in them for decades.

 

They where doing the same as the Kiwis.

 

19 hours ago, Olmate said:

NATO

 

Which has nothing to do with the ANZACS.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Salerno said:

They where doing the same as the Kiwis.

Training? No point having elite troops that have never been on active service if there is a war going to join in. That should not be taken as thinking it's OK to shoot prisoners and that should not be taken as me believing the OP.

[Salerno]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Training?

 

Showing the septics how it's done properly - sadly those deployed included these sad bastards (although I have no doubt the constant rotations helped turn them into those sad bastards).

 

  

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

that should not be taken as me believing the OP.

 

Read the report, look at the footage, listen to the witnesses.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Salerno