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Afghan migrant: I thought France was humane until police beat me


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1 hour ago, kurtmartens said:

After watching the billions of dollars wasted in development and seeing my Afghan friends and staff killed for working with us and personally having to identify the remains of 2 of my friends who were blown up by a suicide bomber while having dinner ... I've earned the right to generalize.  

There is no right to generalize, though it is a useful tool to convince people to commit acts of terrorism. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Chomper Higgot
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37 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There is no right to generalize, though it is a useful tool to convince people to commit acts of terrorism. 

 

 

 

 

acts of terrorism are like repeated patterns,  that's how - we - as targets  - learn to recognize weak signals. Attitude towards law enforcement officers is one of them.

 

Edited by Opl
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8 hours ago, kurtmartens said:

Making him an illegal immigrant.

No it doesnt. The OP never says anyone there is illegal. It says migrants and asylum seekers.

 

requesting asylum does not make you illegal.

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7 hours ago, kurtmartens said:

After watching the billions of dollars wasted in development and seeing my Afghan friends and staff killed for working with us and personally having to identify the remains of 2 of my friends who were blown up by a suicide bomber while having dinner ... I've earned the right to generalize.  

That doesnt make you correct. It just means an inherent bias.

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9 hours ago, kurtmartens said:

No they aren't fighting for their country, they are fighting for a more basic need ... money ... to buy food / shelter.  And if they get more from fighting for the Taliban, its a fair chance they will switch sides (not all of course, I am generalizing).  And frankly who the hell can blame them, they just want to survive at this point and the failed government in Kabul doesn't really care about the soldiers in the field.  

 

And what difference did I make or did the development community in general make ... ZERO.  Except for a few health related projects all the other projects: rule of law, construction, ag, mining, tech, civil service, anti drug, anti corruption, etc made no long term difference.  And I worked on both US and UK AID.  As soon as the international consultants / projects would leave the government offices they were supporting the work would return to how it was done before ... and God forbid the development agencies didn't provide what the Afghans deemed they needed as far as the latest in technology even though the computers were routinely found to be used for personal use instead of work.

 

Its a failed state.  And we need to realize that until they help themselves ... we can't help them.  And I know plenty of Afghans who will tell you the same thing behind closed doors.

 

IMO that's a much better post, accepting the realities the Afghan 'man in the street' faces. If you can be bothered I'm still interested why you spent twelve years in Afghanistan when you knew ultimately your efforts would make no difference.

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42 minutes ago, Sujo said:

No it doesnt. The OP never says anyone there is illegal. It says migrants and asylum seekers.

 

requesting asylum does not make you illegal.

If a person smuggles himself into a country bypassing the legal proceedings that makes him illegal,he should have presented himself to the french authorities at the border,not smuggling himself in.

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1 hour ago, kingdong said:

If a person smuggles himself into a country bypassing the legal proceedings that makes him illegal,he should have presented himself to the french authorities at the border,not smuggling himself in.

The question still remains that if a person enters France without a visa, under current French law can they then apply for refugee status. Please, not another opinion, but link to enacted legislation.

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2 hours ago, simple1 said:

The question still remains that if a person enters France without a visa, under current French law can they then apply for refugee status. Please, not another opinion, but link to enacted legislation.

just because you can ,does not make it right .

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4 hours ago, kingdong said:

If a person smuggles himself into a country bypassing the legal proceedings that makes him illegal,he should have presented himself to the french authorities at the border,not smuggling himself in.

Whatever you were doing in Afghanistan it wasn’t working as an immigration lawyer.

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4 hours ago, simple1 said:

IMO that's a much better post, accepting the realities the Afghan 'man in the street' faces. If you can be bothered I'm still interested why you spent twelve years in Afghanistan when you knew ultimately your efforts would make no difference.

I am a consultant.  And I am honest ... I go where they pay me to go.  I am not an idealist.  

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5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Can or may?

 

The law allows it, so an individual may enter a country to claim asylum, the law does not preclude smuggling oneself into France to do so.

 

What one may do under the law is not illegal.

The law allows what?  Claiming asylum?  Yes.  The law does not allow entering a country illegally.  

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5 hours ago, Sujo said:

No it doesnt. The OP never says anyone there is illegal. It says migrants and asylum seekers.

 

requesting asylum does not make you illegal.

They entered France illegally.  Entering a country without a visa ... is against the law.  Just because you then claim asylum doesn't change that.  If you claim asylum you are normally then processed, registered, given housing, etc and a case and a hearing ... you are not just living on the street and saying you are seeking asylum.  These are not official asylum seekers, they are illegal immigrants.  Period.  

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6 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

The law allows what?  Claiming asylum?  Yes.  The law does not allow entering a country illegally.  

It has been explained to you numerous times that the law does allow an individual to enter a country to claim asylum, smuggling themselves in to do so is not against the law.

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It has been explained to you numerous times that the law does allow an individual to enter a country to claim asylum, smuggling themselves in to do so is not against the law.

 

Yes it is, hence the official term "illegal aliens". Once they claim asylum the act of illegally entering the country is ignored until such time they have been assessed, if deemed not to be genuine refugees they are then in the country illegally and can be removed.

 

I get it, amnesty et al don't want the word illegal to be associated with them due to it being used as a dog whistle by certain ... people. But IMO it doesn't help the issue.

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25 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It has been explained to you numerous times that the law does allow an individual to enter a country to claim asylum, smuggling themselves in to do so is not against the law.

 

 

 

 

differently  worded " an individual smuggled by a large poly-criminal network involved in migrant smuggling towards Western Europe, therefore financially supporting trafficking of human beings and drug trafficking  ... is against the law, ask Europol  

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5 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

Yes it is, hence the official term "illegal aliens". Once they claim asylum the act of illegally entering the country is ignored until such time they have been assessed, if deemed not to be genuine refugees they are then in the country illegally and can be removed.

 

I get it, amnesty et al don't want the word illegal to be associated with them due to it being used as a dog whistle by certain ... people. But IMO it doesn't help the issue.

They perfectly know what the laws are, consider they have no obligation to enter France legally, but demand others to abide by the law at their benefit.   

In fact they are  illegal migrants who occupy public space illegally, refuse to respect the injunctions of a police officer - an obligation- and then plead against the police for using  force they consider disproportionate.

Reverse victim and offender tactic. 

Edited by Opl
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1 hour ago, Opl said:

They perfectly know what the laws are, consider they have no obligation to enter France legally, but demand others to abide by the law at their benefit.   

In fact they are  illegal migrants who occupy public space illegally, refuse to respect the injunctions of a police officer - an obligation- and then plead against the police for using  force they consider disproportionate.

Reverse victim and offender tactic. 

Please show me where in the OP it says they are illegal. It says migrants and asylum seekers.

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7 hours ago, kurtmartens said:

Have they officially claimed claim asylum with the French Government?

According to the OP migrants and asylum seekers. Unless you have other info thats what they are, legal.

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7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Whatever you were doing in Afghanistan it wasn’t working as an immigration lawyer.

Who said i,d ever been in afghanistan? Either you,re deliberately misquoting me or perhaps you recieved too many blows to the head whilst morris dancing causing confusion.

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