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Maizefarmer

The 1(1)th Commandment

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What did I think?

I asked him 2 questions:

- how long have you known this young lady?

- if you were back home, would you be relating to or getting involved with a hooker in this way?

I re-read MF's first post, and again I .have to agree with him, and although I would guess the 2nd question was most likely came out more politically correct than it was when written down here. But it was enough to sow seeds of doubt for the guy to ask some more questions than just continue walking blindly.

Khonwan, I do not believe you have been lucky......but you are probably have a great ability to judge character, and most likely are a true gentleman to your GF.

I lived here for 3-4 years had my first Thai Love, and the entire time I just knew in the back of my mind if I invested way back at the start it was money down the gurgler. But that was my personal relationship and different to yours.

I believe this is all still relavant to Ag forum as it really referring to agri-business and decision making to done before investing money.

I like this Ag forum as they are very very few personal attacks on people...Lets all try and keep it that way.

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What did I think?

I asked him 2 questions:

- how long have you known this young lady?

- if you were back home, would you be relating to or getting involved with a hooker in this way?

I re-read MF's first post, and again I .have to agree with him, and although I would guess the 2nd question was most likely came out more politically correct than it was when written down here. But it was enough to sow seeds of doubt for the guy to ask some more questions than just continue walking blindly.

Khonwan, I do not believe you have been lucky......but you are probably have a great ability to judge character, and most likely are a true gentleman to your GF.

I lived here for 3-4 years had my first Thai Love, and the entire time I just knew in the back of my mind if I invested way back at the start it was money down the gurgler. But that was my personal relationship and different to yours.

I believe this is all still relavant to Ag forum as it really referring to agri-business and decision making to done before investing money.

I like this Ag forum as they are very very few personal attacks on people...Lets all try and keep it that way.

Yes, lets keep attacks out of this - personal attacks and attacks on groups of people who may require someone to stand up for them. Be sensitive to other points of view and resist bringing them up in such a public forum that is sure to reflect all points of view. You may well think this is ag-related but I'm sure you would agree that there are many other ag-related topics we can discuss that need not stretch the meaning of ag-related.

Rgds

Khonwan

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Khonwan

I made that farming forum point clear right at the start. I'll repeat why I felt it had some relivance here: some members/ alot of members (especialy new members) focus in on a sub section of the forum that is related to their interest - and if it's ag related this is the forum section they will gravitate to with questions before reading other sections. Thats who it was aimed at - so I belive it has a role to play here.

But back to your points:

1) "You have a propensity to jump to the wrong conclusion. No, I did not dig through your old posts as a result of this post"

Nope Khonwan - I said it looked like that - it was not a conclusion - you have a better memory than me because I sure as hel_l don't remember point by point my old postings. Still, those points had zip nothing to do with the subject and I can't understand why you raised them - but leave it as it is, point closed - has nothing to do with what this subject.

Thanx for the comment re farming (no sarcasm intended)

2) "Your first response was clearly in reply to me, and by quoting me directly you open yourself up to further response from me"

It was not Khonwan - I told you that and couldn't explain it any clearer - if you want to see it otherwise, well - what can I say.

4) "I do, however, take exception to the view that bar girls should be single out for your judgement (and judged you certainly did)".

There are a number of ways I could have put it. Of course its easy to say it was judgemental. I could have said, or put it like this: - read Thaivisa ([other sub-sections[/i]) - ample evidence to support what I said. I could also have put it like this: like gambling in a casino, there will always be exceptions, but for every one exception there will be a load of guys who kick themselves afterwards for not having been a little more circumspect. One can put it whatever they want - it's the same and it's a fact (many times an uncomfortable fact). Nothing wrong in raising this as a potential risk for new comers to this part of the forum. And I'm going to addd something to that - most guys recognise when they made that mistake and kick themselves afterwards (you only have to read other sub-forums to see that - fact, loads of examples), but there are some who do it again and again. And yes - it overwhelmingly occurs in ex-pat/bar girl relationships - because that is the cross-cultural profile in which the libido/sex element comes into play versus the time element - that is a fact Khonwan. Remember - what I said about the part of it "time". Take the "short time" out of the equation - think about it: it starts to look very different (i.e. libido doesn't wait!).

I stand behind what I said - it's a bang on accurate statement - if read in it's proper context.

5) "You expected your post to be provocative - why complain when you are proved correct?"

Nope - it was not mean't to provoke - I said I expected it to be controversial. (quote/unquote). I suspected that someone would personalise the subject at some or other level, at which point, yes - it becomes provocative - I did not want that happening.

6) "why not also advise them of the pitfalls of destroying that relationship at a later date by similarly following their libido rather than their head".

What Khonwan! - the whole point was watch your libido - libido's an influential thing - good idea to keep an eye on it. And if ever there are a set of circumstances in which one should seperate libido from economic decisions and committments - Thailand has to rank high. Keep it out of making those big desicions untill you have a good understanding of whats going on. I thought that was clear - makes sense doesn't it - again, you only have to look elswhere on the forum to see it comes up time and time again - endless examples

Why should it end off with what btate said. If there were more replies like his, it would be good. He to didn't agree with some of what I said. He raised some valid points. I disagreed with him on some points: I don't feel what I raised was an exception. Rather, your experiance and my experiance are very much exceptions.

MF

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Maizefarmer

Well, I think we have played this to death now so I offer my hand in peace.

Take the bar-girl / hooker references out (replace it with "girlfriend") and I'll support your treatise 100%, and support it being pinned.

Pax

Khonwan

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Nope, it's an accurate statement, well explained and qualifed where need be. You've made it very clear what you didn't like, but that was very much a comparison with your experiance - which was not what I was writing about and doesn't tell me what was wrong with what I wrote.

I wrote it up because it was an actual incident that a new forum member had shared with me and represented well something that happens so much in Thailand. (I had his permission to write it up - actualy he asked me to add 2 things: a) he had been communticating with the girl for about 6 months, and, secondly, when she hotted footed it, she did not take other valuables he had left in his room e.g. camera and computer - just the cash. One can read that as one wishes - I am not drawing any conclusion from it - postiive or negative.).

As for pinning this - I really couldn't care one way or the other. The thread can die a natural death - I have no personal attachment to this as a subject.

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So whats my point?

Go back to the 2 rhetorical questions I wrote above. If it is not how you would conduct yourself back home (i.e. getting involved in land pruchase, buying livestock, building, boreholes, wells, ect ect ...) with a young lady you meet under "those" circumstances and have known for the amount of time that guys often know girls for here, before doing these things - then don't do it here in Thailand. The chances are overwhelmingly it will go south the moment you turn back. Think with your head - not your heart (or should that be middle leg) - keep your emotions out of it.

In my opinion you are wrong MF. In my personal circumstances I got involved with substantial investment with my (then) g/f's family at an early stage of our relationship. The main motive for doing so was to give the family an opportunity to earn a living for themselves instead of relying on hand-outs from her (or us). I would not do such a thing in my "home" country as there is a social security system.

The relationship appears to be standing the test of time, we have been together for 12 years and the family(s) are able to support themselves, and to some extent, provide an income to my wife and I.

This is far from a unique situation - many of my friends are in similar circumstances, in my experience the success rate of such relationships appears to be higher than those in my home country (UK).

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Topic moved to General Forum.

Please keep the replies to this thread sensible and mature.

/Moved.

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Maize Farmer has touched on something very delicate and I think it is very relevant to this thread. As it relates to what I am doing with the rubber servicing project, the idea was born by seeing such falung come and go and loose their life savings.

Please do not get offended by the comments, because its not just bar girls that can rip people off, and there is many many examples of successful relationships with girls that have been meet in Bars.

My comment to this thread MF, is I see on regular basis a newbie with what I call M triple GGG S.......which is My girl's a good girl syndrome. (please don't get offended as I am not referring to everybody).......It can usually be seen in a newbie who has lived in Thailand for less than accumalated time of 12 months. The classic signs are Starry eyes when they are telling you how they met and really connected......how they met the family and they are cool....even mum and dad really loves them........From this point I always start to question so are you married, if yes how much was the dowry, how much do you send back to your GF when you are oversea's, how much was the car, motorbike, did you buy land , house already.....etc etc.

I am sorry, to some people I know that I am probably being really offensive, but you can be rest assured that 90% of the cases that I see like this end in total loss of money that has been handed over.

The question is, when some one is in love and has MGGGS, is it possible to enlighten them before they loose their life savings?? Because normally now I do not say anything, because I believe a man in love can be told nothing.

I would not get involved or put money into any business venture in a foreign land, unless you are a multinational corporation. Personal relationships are enough of a minefield here, let alone adding extra vulnerability to loss, with business propositions involving your darling of the moment and/or her family. It is pretty standard practice for a Farang to be approached with requests to put up money to start the lady in question with some sort of money making enterprise. Such has been requested of me on several occasions. My reccomendation is to give a reasonable monthly assistance to the GF and possibly her Mother/Father. No purchase of real estate, cars, etc that will be registered in her name. Determine that she has no other romantic involvements, which is hard enough to do in you are living in LOS & impossible if you are overseas and she is in Thailand. No legal marriage & small dowery, if you really have to.

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Please keep the replies to this thread sensible and mature.

C'mon JD, you know better than that! :o

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In my opinion you are wrong MF. In my personal circumstances I got involved with substantial investment with my (then) g/f's family at an early stage of our relationship. The main motive for doing so was to give the family an opportunity to earn a living for themselves instead of relying on hand-outs from her (or us). I would not do such a thing in my "home" country as there is a social security system.

OK it was me, hands up !

All started with a PM to Maizefarmer asking if 20K to dig a pond was a fair price (depending on size I know) I was a bit reluctant to post on here because in the circumstances I did not want pages of 1 liner cracks with Beer glass holding, laughing emotions. As it happens its turned into a lengthy mature discussion, so I'll add my bit, prompted moreso by the above post quoted here.

Came to LOS in October last yr, never went looking for entertainment other than a drink with a couple of friends. Met the girl in question, yes she came with me and so impressed by her kind seemingly genuine love & affection that she stayed the week. SMS/ telephone every day between then & January trip, again stayed the whole 2 weeks. Announced of her own volition that she wasnt suited to the job and was heading back to Isaan when i went home. From a farming life myself I was delighted and offered to go with her to see where/how she lived, she also over the moon. Must add that at this stage there was no request for regular support either, her choice to go because she wanted to. Had a very good 3 days with her and during this time, went to look at a piece of land she knew was for sale (40k, about 3 Rai). looked and told her it was cheap, but very dry. Long discussion over it and finally gave in saying it was 40K to help the family sustain itself or a small bit of help on a regular basis. "Darling I like land". Good, I thought, better to give 40k now than subsidise a lazy life for ever. No problem. Txt/tel everyday (hands up to sending some money as well over the next few months).

Met at BKK, 2 nights there, OK, off to Hua Hin where we met, things got a bit strained at times, still as loving etc though. At this point I would like to add that she knew of my home circumstances from Day 1, never seemed a problem. When she asked me when i come next time, I told her I bring Family in July (they want to see the house in HH). Oh dear ! big upset, tears the lot (understandable probably). Anyway, got over it, said sorry etc and things returned to an even keel. What a cheating B******d i hear some of you say, well yes, & I'm not proud. Things not great at home, but I love my kids and selfishly have worked my nuts off for the last 5 years building up a rental portfolio of 16 houses, and although I would love to come to Isaan, live with her and us both have a comfortable life, I'm not going to make a step like that without getting to know he better. (not completely led by my middle leg)

Because I know the land is dry, i talked to her about a borehole (hence contacting MF) no good she says, too many trees for windmil, better to dig a pond.....20K she reckoned. Then she could grow different things, sell them at the market or wherever and help maintain the family (sustainability again as in the quoted text above). I give hr the 20k to send home as father said the digger could come next few days, take advantage of the rain. Same night, we go to eat, then go to the bar for a drink. Leaves me to nip off to 7/11 (back in 10 she said) Never given me any reason to mistrust her....ever .. 40 mins later, no sign, so pissed off i go back to hotel to find her gone with the 20k and all the new clothes/mobile phone i bought for her the day before.

Phoned her immediately to find she was on a bus to BKK. Going to work she said, tried to get her to come back & talk about it, but no way. N ext call i get tells me going home & will come with me to CM on monday......... slightly relieved now..... then get a call next day saying she in Pattaya, "you love family, you not love me, I not like darling, very sorry darling" That was it, either changed her SIM or lost the phone, more likely the first i think.

I still think the world of her (yes I know what you think), but if she was looking to rip me off completely she could have cleared the room, it was all there for the taking, but she only took what I had given her incluing the 20k. Not sure if it will dig a pond or start a new career in Pattaya if thats where she went. She genuinly loved the land and family life, so i just hope she returns to it. - maybe already has & didn't want me heading for Buri Ram.

No need for any "serves you right cracks" I know it does ! Just wanted everyone to know the full story......

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Hang on a second!

What where the questions again?

Recap - Would a settled married man <deleted> about with a hooker then fall for her in his own country?

No he wouldn't because his balls aren't big enough to end his marriage so he has to run to the other side of the world just to cheat! What a pussy!

Well, here's another question, what do this guy's wife and kids back home think about this?

'Nuff said!

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As you say FarmerDave, she never took anything you did not willingly give her, and as you could not give her the long term security that she craves, she will go to Pattaya to seek another man who can.

If you really do think the world of her, let her go to find the long term security that you as a married man cannot give her.

Wish her luck.

Edited by Maigo6

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So whats my point?

Go back to the 2 rhetorical questions I wrote above. If it is not how you would conduct yourself back home (i.e. getting involved in land pruchase, buying livestock, building, boreholes, wells, ect ect ...) with a young lady you meet under "those" circumstances and have known for the amount of time that guys often know girls for here, before doing these things - then don't do it here in Thailand. The chances are overwhelmingly it will go south the moment you turn back. Think with your head - not your heart (or should that be middle leg) - keep your emotions out of it.

In my opinion you are wrong MF. In my personal circumstances I got involved with substantial investment with my (then) g/f's family at an early stage of our relationship. The main motive for doing so was to give the family an opportunity to earn a living for themselves instead of relying on hand-outs from her (or us). I would not do such a thing in my "home" country as there is a social security system.

The relationship appears to be standing the test of time, we have been together for 12 years and the family(s) are able to support themselves, and to some extent, provide an income to my wife and I.

This is far from a unique situation - many of my friends are in similar circumstances, in my experience the success rate of such relationships appears to be higher than those in my home country (UK).

Thats a fair comment - and if you had also included something else I wrote on the subject, you'll see the above quote correctly: yes, there are examples where it's worked good right from the start, no doubt about it - but for every one success there are a load that didn't and the odds are the quicker you make a financial committment, the bigger the chances are it could sour. Clear relationship between time given and outcome - but yes, there are excepitions and I acknowledged that.

MF

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I wouldn't go knocking this idea of buying live stock for Thais out of hand.

I personally know of one expat, who finding himself in a relationship with a Thai woman who at the same time was playing her bets with another guy (her Thai boss), decided to end the relationship.

He broke off with the girl just as he departed overseas but made one last visit to her family home, to pay his respects and treat her father to a buffalo calf, resplendent with a name tag 'Lucky'.

He explained 'Lucky' as 'Chok Dee' and laced that with all the 'Chok Dee' of having met, 'Chok Dee' at 'Lucky' finding such a happy home etc

He departed the village to the sound of all the family’s and neighbors children calling the water buffalo 'Aye Lucky'.

'Lucky' coincidentaly was the name of the alternative suitor his ex had been playing him against.

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I wouldn't go knocking this idea of buying live stock for Thais out of hand.

I personally know of one expat, who finding himself in a relationship with a Thai woman who at the same time was playing her bets with another guy (her Thai boss), decided to end the relationship.

He broke off with the girl just as he departed overseas but made one last visit to her family home, to pay his respects and treat her father to a buffalo calf, resplendent with a name tag 'Lucky'.

He explained 'Lucky' as 'Chok Dee' and laced that with all the 'Chok Dee' of having met, 'Chok Dee' at 'Lucky' finding such a happy home etc

He departed the village to the sound of all the family’s and neighbors children calling the water buffalo 'Aye Lucky'.

'Lucky' coincidentaly was the name of the alternative suitor his ex had been playing him against.

Brilliant ......!

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