21st floor condo low water pressure issue...need advice

[WaveHunter]

19 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I cleaned the inlet and supply connections to the water heater, the pipes where the shower unit is connected, and the shower head as best I could.  There was a lot of debris that came out and there was some improvement, but not enough.  The shower head hose has a molded in flow restrictor and I think I could solve my issues if I could get rid of that restrictor.  With hose disconnected I get almost 6 liters per minute flow whereas with the hose connected I only get a little about 3.5 L/min.

 

Does anyone know where I could get shower head hose that has removable flow restrictors?  I know I've seen them in the USA but I can't find anything like it on Lazada or AliExpress.  Can anyone offer a recommendation where to get one?

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by WaveHunter

[bankruatsteve]

Boonthavorn

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

Boonthavorn

DO you know that they actually have such hoses, or is it just a suggestion to try there?  It's pretty far away from me.

[bankruatsteve]

19 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

DO you know that they actually have such hoses, or is it just a suggestion to try there?  It's pretty far away from me.

Yes, Boonthavorn has such hoses.  So do all the "Home" places.  I've never seen a hose in Thailand with the flow restrictor you show but there you go.  I suggested Boonthavorn because almost all of their stuff is the better (best) quality.  

[johng]

Often the "flow restrictor"   comes with the shower/water heater hose  in the form of a rubber washer with a smaller than normal hole in the middle    just remove the rubber washer.

[WaveHunter]

19 minutes ago, johng said:

Often the "flow restrictor"   comes with the shower/water heater hose  in the form of a rubber washer with a smaller than normal hole in the middle    just remove the rubber washer.

As I said, the restrictor is molded into the end-fitting.  If I were to remove it, there would be nothing to hold the hose in the fitting.

Edited December 3, 2020 by WaveHunter

[lopburi3]

29 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Yes, Boonthavorn has such hoses.  So do all the "Home" places.  I've never seen a hose in Thailand with the flow restrictor you show but there you go.  I suggested Boonthavorn because almost all of their stuff is the better (best) quality.  

In my experience Boonthavorn prices are high for many items.  Expect contractors get a discount but I have found much better price for same electric items at HomePro   But for connecting hose for home quantity price should not be an issue anywhere.   Most simple hardware shophouse will also have these.

[johng]

7 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

As I said, the restrictor is molded into the end-fitting.

Ok so you're "out of luck"  and will have to go buy a new hose ( with no restrictor built in) from the hardware shop they are readily available from about 100 Baht      Boonthavorn carries the expensive stuff I went in there once to see "how the other half live"  ????

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

DO you know that they actually have such hoses, or is it just a suggestion to try there?  It's pretty far away from me.

Your picture has the flow restrictor and filter still on it

[WaveHunter]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Your picture has the flow restrictor and filter still on it

The flow restrictor is an integral part of the screw in end fitting.  If I were to remove the restrictor, there would be nothing to hold the hose in place with the end fitting.

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, johng said:

Ok so you're "out of luck"  and will have to go buy a new hose ( with no restrictor built in) from the hardware shop they are readily available from about 100 Baht      Boonthavorn carries the expensive stuff I went in there once to see "how the other half live"  ????

OK, I'll check out HomePro and see what they have.  Anyone have suggestions for a "good" shower head.  HomePro has about 5 pages of shower heads but absolutely no descriptions related to flow rate, or described as "power" shower heads.  Can anyone recommend a brand/model that really delivers?

[bankruatsteve]

39 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

In my experience Boonthavorn prices are high for many items.  Expect contractors get a discount but I have found much better price for same electric items at HomePro

Don't know about electric items at Boonthavorn but valves, faucets, etc. are a sure thing. I have had nothing but grief at the Home places for those. 

[Yellowtail]

Drill (or cut) the hole bigger in the rubber.

[WaveHunter]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Drill (or cut) the hole bigger in the rubber.

Nope...the restrictor is fitted in a way that drilling it out will weaken it enough that the hose will slip out of the end fitting.  Only answer is to get a hose designed to work without a restrictor AND that will deliver 2.5 GPM flow, along with a shower head that also allows 2.5 GPM flow.

 

I'm only asking here on ThaiVIsa, rather than just making the rounds of hardware stores because someone else may have figured out which brand / model meets these specs.  If I just walk into HomePro, I may not know for sure since sales people may not be knowledgeable.

 

So, if anybody can offer a brand name, model name, or link to these items from personal experience, it would be appreciated.

[Yellowtail]

26 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Nope...the restrictor is fitted in a way that drilling it out will weaken it enough that the hose will slip out of the end fitting.  Only answer is to get a hose designed to work without a restrictor AND that will deliver 2.5 GPM flow, along with a shower head that also allows 2.5 GPM flow.

 

I'm only asking here on ThaiVIsa, rather than just making the rounds of hardware stores because someone else may have figured out which brand / model meets these specs.  If I just walk into HomePro, I may not know for sure since sales people may not be knowledgeable.

 

So, if anybody can offer a brand name, model name, or link to these items from personal experience, it would be appreciated.

 

Well it looks to me like the grey is some kind of rubber that could be cut down easily.

 

In any event, as someone else mentioned, most all of them have removable rubber restrictors. Why not look at one before you buy it? They most all come in clear plastic and at HomePro they'll take it out and hook it up to valve so you can try before you buy.

 

Mine are MEX, Cotto and American Standard and they all have removable washers 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Yellowtail
added text

[WaveHunter]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Well it looks to me like the grey is some kind of rubber that could be cut down easily.

 

In any event, as someone else mentioned, most all of them have removable rubber restrictors. Why not look at one before you buy it? They most all come in clear plastic and at HomePro they'll take it out and hook it up to valve so you can try before you buy.

 

 

I already tried to see if I could somehow widen the opening but like I said, it is an integral part of the end fitting so any fiddling will make the hose separate from the fitting.  I think it's intended to force you to save water whether you like it or not.  As you suggest, going into HomePro and figuring it all ou there is probably going to the the plan.

[sometimewoodworker]

13 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Only answer is to get a hose designed to work without a restrictor AND that will deliver 2.5 GPM flow, along with a shower head that also allows 2.5 GPM flow

That flow rate is probably about standard for Häfele rain shower heads (other suppliers are available), they can be feed by standard hoses.

Also you (or a skilled drill user) can drill out the filter with no damage to the ability of the hose to seal 

 

This is the same style (but not chromed) as you have.
 

 

 it you can also avoid all of that by using a standard hose, for these you can get a thin “crunchy screen” or just a washer,  as they all have the same thread.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[WaveHunter]

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That flow rate is probably about standard for Häfele rain shower heads (other suppliers are available), they can be feed by standard hoses.

Also you (or a skilled drill user) can drill out the filter with no damage to the ability of the hose to seal 

This is the same style (but not chromed) as you have.
it you can also avoid all of that by using a standard hose, for these you can get a thin “crunchy screen” or just a washer,  as they all have the same thread.

 

Here's the problem though.  The rubber tube running up through the shower hose has about the same diameter as the restrictor so drilling out the restrictor will actually accomplish very little I think.

 

Instead what I think I will do is remove the rain-shower head which is attached to a larger diameter pipe and replace it with a hi-velocity shower head like the one shown.

 

 

That still won't solve my problem of low temperature (max from my present water heater is only about 36 Celsius, and may not solve pressure problem either since the flow at the shower-head pipe is just a little over 3 GPM, whereas most hotels is closer to 7GPM.  Just because the head is rated at 2.5 requires higher pressure than I have to actually deliver that flow (I think).

 

What I'm thinking of doing is buying a combination water heater / pressure booster and installing it in tandem with present water heater that's located under the bathroom vanity.  The heat output is easily 45 Celcius, and the pressure is sufficnet to increase flow by 2GPM:

 

I found a combination heater / pressure booster that seems pretty decent and inexpensive on AliExpress.  The company is reputable and has all the certifications:

I am not a plumber or a very experienced DIY guy but this all looks very workable to me.  I sure wish I could find an easier solution but I see nothing at HomePro, and nothing on Lazada that is similar to this combination heater / pressure booster.

 

What do you more-experienced DIY guys think of all of this?

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by WaveHunter

[lopburi3]

Your choice but I detest fixed shower heads are using hand held types.  Much easier to use in my opinion. 

3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I sure wish I could find an easier solution but I see nothing at HomePro, and nothing on Lazada that is similar to this combination heater / pressure booster.

Which I suspect is due to laws that went into effect about pumping from mains water several decades ago.  

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Your choice but I detest fixed shower heads are using hand held types.  Much easier to use in my opinion. 

Which I suspect is due to laws that went into effect about pumping from mains water several decades ago.  

All things considered, I also prefer hand held, but when I saw the diameter of the hose, I realized I am sacrificing flow volume for that convenience.  Trickling water flow and low temperature is a horrible way to start the day (at least for me).  I mean, I lived on a sailboat for a long time and got better water pressure and temperature on board than I'm getting in my "luxury" hi-rise now LOL!

 

As for defying local laws, I would not be guilty of that since all of my modifications are on the inside of my condo (i.e.: from output of my present water heater).  I ran the idea by the Condo Juristic Person and they said "no problem".

Edited December 4, 2020 by WaveHunter

[sometimewoodworker]

16 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I am not a plumber or a very experienced DIY guy but this all looks very workable to me.

It doesn’t look terrible but there’s no power rating on the heater

[WaveHunter]

5 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It doesn’t look terrible but there’s no power rating on the heater

 

 

Also...do you know if there is a standard size for the water line connectors here is Thailand?  They told me "CONNECTORS: 1/2” or 3/4” BSP"  I'm not sure what that means. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

Another question for anyone in-the-know...Can anybody recommend a good plumber (licensed...if there is such a thing here in Thailand) in the Pattaya area that speaks English?  Or an expat plumber who could advise me on whether this approach is a wise choice?  I mean, it all sounds very good to me but I am not a professional plumber and I don't want to do something that could damage the pipes or the condo since this is not my condo and I am only a renter.  I've tried to find a plumber and it seems that none of them speak English at all, which is frustrating ????

 

[Rimmer]

A couple of posts with messed up quotes removed, don't know what the problem but it has been noted and reported.

[johng]

I believe the "normal"  household shower pipes in Thailand  are 1/2 inch  British Standard Pipe ( BSP)

same for taps.

[WaveHunter]

I'm still trying to decide on whether to buy this water heater / pressure booster but want to be sure it won't cause a problem, so I'd appreciate some feedback from someone familiar with plumbing and electrical.  Sorry for all the questions but I really know very little about plumbing and electrical, and the local plumbers I've tried to discuss this with either do not have a good grasp of English, or seem to know little more than me ????

 

The water heater / pressure booster I'm looking to buy is designed to be mounted in the shower stall but what I want to do is mount it in place of the bathroom water heater which is located under the sink vanity.  I simply don;t want to face the prospect of running electricity into the shower stall, and I see no reason why mounting it under the vanity would not work just fine.

 

My concerns are:

1.  Does the new unit exceed the condo's circuit breaker for the present heater?
2. Will the water pressure put out by the new heater / pressure booster be safe for pipes running through the wall from heater to shower and sink?

I'm also a little confused about what to expect from this new unit in terms of actual water flow and water temperature. 

 

As for temperature, my present water heater is rated at 6 kW and only delivers a maximum water temperature of 35 degrees celsius (which sucks!).  I suspect there is something wrong with the heater, but maybe this is normal???  The new heater is rated at only 5.5 kW, yet the manufacturer claims it will easily deliver 45 degrees celsius sustained temperature...so, I'm not sure whether to trust this estimate or not.

 

As for what to expect regarding water flow of the new unit, the manufacturer claims it will boost water flow by at least 1-2 liters per minute.  Can anyone tell if this seems correct based on the "pressure range" specifications shown below, and could this added pressure be a concern as far as possible damage to the the pipes in the walls running from the water heater to the shower go or leaking within the walls?

 

Here is what I can provide as far as specs go:

 

• Here is the circuit breaker for the hot water heater; not sure what "32" means:

 

The present water heater is 6kW but is only delivering 35 degrees celsius maximum temperature

 

Here are the specs for the new water heater / pressure booster unit:

 

 

I really would appreciate any "educated" advice I can get ????

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by WaveHunter

[bankruatsteve]

8 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

My concerns are:

1.  Does the new unit exceed the condo's circuit breaker for the present heater?
2. Will the water pressure put out by the new heater / pressure booster be safe for pipes running through the wall from heater to shower and sink?

1.  No.  If the circuit has correct wire size for 32a breaker, you are good.

2.  Should be fine for that.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

1.  No.  If the circuit has correct wire size for 32a breaker, you are good.

2.  Should be fine for that.

Thanks!  Appreciate hearing that assessment ????

 

I think this clip from Seinfeld sums up my plight perfectly LOL!

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by WaveHunter

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

As for temperature, my present water heater is rated at 6 kW and only delivers a maximum water temperature of 35 degrees celsius (which sucks!).  I suspect there is something wrong with the heater, but maybe this is normal???  The new heater is rated at only 5.5 kW, yet the manufacturer claims it will easily deliver 45 degrees celsius sustained temperature...so, I'm not sure whether to trust this estimate or not.

A 6kWh heater, if it’s functioning correctly and the input water temperature is high enough (20C~25C), will, absolutely, give temperatures of over 40~45 degrees celsius. A lower power unit will give a lower output temperature, don’t believe sales literature. I’m sure they don’t tell you the required input water temperature to get  the claimed output water temperature.

 

If your input water temperature is quite cold, that is your problem and you need a higher powered unit, or to add a second heater In series. 
 

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

As for what to expect regarding water flow of the new unit, the manufacturer claims it will boost water flow by at least 1-2 liters per minute.  Can anyone tell if this seems correct based on the "pressure range" specifications shown below

Those specifications do not give any useful information, you need the pressure increase. That information tells you the range of pressure that is safe for the unit. 
 

It is almost certain that the unit is not a heater and pump, it’s just a normal multi point heater so will not give any more flow. Pump heaters are virtually nonexistent in Thailand.

 

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

could this added pressure be a concern as far as possible damage to the the pipes in the walls running from the water heater to the shower go or leaking within the walls?

Added pressure can cause a problem, this won’t as there’s no pump, it’s specifically mentioned that it’s not designed for a shower or that a shower head is not included, the transition is not clear on that point.

Edited December 17, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[WaveHunter]

@sometimewoodworker Thanks for the reply.

 

The input water temperature (unheated) in my condo is 28° C and my present 6kW heater is only raising it to 35° C...so I guess you are saying my present heater is not working well.  It does look pretty old so I guess that's why my hot water temps are so low..

 

However, You are incorrect that the unit I am looking to purchase does not actually contain a pump.  It does indeed contain one (see attached pictures)

 

 

I realize that heaters with booster pumps seem to not be sold in Thailand, but this unit is not from Thailand; I would be importing it from elsewhere.

 

After discussing with manufacturer's rep, she assured me that, based on the chart they provided to me (below) and the fact that my condo's incoming (unheated & unrestricted) water flow is presently 3 liters per minute at 28° C that I should expect at least 40° C+ at the showerhead and a boost of (unrestricted) water flow up to around 5 L/min, and perhaps even more temperature & water flow.  (Note that this chart is for delta change, not absolute comparison.)

 

Fact is, I actually did ask her if perhaps I should hook up their heater / booster pump in series with my present heater, and she advised it would not be necessary.

So, I guess my question is really just whether this sounds reasonable and I'm not being mislead by the manufacturer, and whether there are any dangers to the pipes in the walls from increased pressure (which I'm now suspecting is probably not an issue.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by WaveHunter