Scotland's Sturgeon hints at legal move if independence vote blocked

[snoop1130]

Scotland's Sturgeon hints at legal move if independence vote blocked

 

FILE PHOTO: Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon speaks during a pro-Scottish Independence rally in Glasgow, Scotland, November 2, 2019. REUTERS/Russell Cheyne/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon on Monday declined to rule out a new vote for Scottish independence next year and hinted she might go to court for permission to hold one if London tried to block it.

 

Scots rejected independence in 2014 but Brexit and the British government's handling of the COVID-19 crisis have bolstered support for secession, with most polls showing a majority now favour breaking up the United Kingdom.

 

Elections to Scotland's devolved parliament will take place in May, and Sturgeon's Scottish National Party (SNP) is expected to perform strongly, which it argues would be a mandate for another independence referendum.

 

Sturgeon said she wanted another vote "in the early part of the next term of the Scottish parliament rather than the later part", declining to rule out a possible vote in autumn 2021.

 

"I'm not ruling anything out, I'm not ruling anything in," she told Sky News.

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said the 2014 vote in which Scots voted 55-45 percent against independence was a decisive once in a generation event and his government says there should not be another referendum in the near future.

 

London must give permission for any plebiscite, and in remarks to BBC radio Sturgeon declined to preclude taking legal action should Johnson block another vote.

 

She noted that the question of "does the Scottish Parliament have the power to have a referendum, regardless of what Westminster says" had never been determined in the courts.

 

"What's not, in my view, legitimate or acceptable is for him to say that it's not for the Scottish people to decide."

 

Polls show Johnson is unpopular in Scotland and his comment that devolution of powers to Edinburgh was a "disaster" was seen as playing into nationalists' hands.

 

Brexit is also a major issue as a clear majority of Scots voted to remain in European Union in a 2016 referendum, even as the United Kingdom as whole voted 52-48 to leave.

 

"I think as we rebuild from COVID it's really important that we have all of the tools and the powers to do that properly and that the country we're rebuilding is the one that a majority of Scots want to see, not one in the image of Boris Johnson and his band of Brexiteers," Sturgeon said.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-30

 

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[pacovl46]

Surely if the UK have the right to leave the EU then Scotland has the right to leave the United Kingdom! What goes around comes around and karma is a “beach!” ????

[welovesundaysatspace]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Scotland's Sturgeon hints at legal move if independence vote blocked

They could just hold a referendum and leave without asking the UK for permission. Same as the UK did with the EU. And since Boris established the precedent that he is fine with breaking international law and agreements, I’m sure he would be fine with it here as well. 

[herfiehandbag]

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

They could just hold a referendum and leave without asking the UK for permission. Same as the UK did with the EU. And since Boris established the precedent that he is fine with breaking international law and agreements, I’m sure he would be fine with it here as well. 

They won't though will they!

 

"Westminster has no right to deny a referendum"

but,

"Westminster won't give us a referendum".

 

"It is the right of the Scottish people to choose their own future, no one else can dictate it",

but,

"Westminster won't give us a referendum".

 

They are either: aware that last time their demands for independence were rejected, in a referendum the terms of which (including that it was a "once in a generation vote") they set, and are concerned that they may be rejected again; or they actually do not really want independence, preferring to play the victim. 

 

Any other suggestions as to why they won't actually get on and do it? After all, if they campaign for the election on the basis that they will, if they form a Government, hold a referendum, and then, as they claim, win the referendum, they will have a clear mandate to declare independence. They won't do it though, will they!

 

[wombat]

Is this where you keep voting untill you get the result you want?

[phantomfiddler]

I wonder who will be wanting to be the "Queen" of the new country Scotland ? 

[Surelynot]

Don't you just hate democracy....voters going around determining their own future.... should not be allowed.

 

....and for those who claim they have already had a referendum.....Brexit changed everything!

 

 

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Surely if the UK have the right to leave the EU then Scotland has the right to leave the United Kingdom! What goes around comes around and karma is a “beach!” ????

 

False equivalence.

 

The EU isn't a sovereign nation. It's membership is open to applications and leavings. It's still essentially a trading bloc that's moving closer to a federal/unified state. But all its members are sovereign states and can leave at any time.

 

The UK is a sovereign nation. Scotland is an integral part of that nation; its population are British and it is subject to the rule of law just like the rest of the UK.

 

No matter how much Ms. Sturgeon may huff and puff and talk herself up and up.

 

Johnson has his problems but he's right about this. He and his government decide, not chancer Sturgeon.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

They could just hold a referendum and leave without asking the UK for permission. Same as the UK did with the EU. And since Boris established the precedent that he is fine with breaking international law and agreements, I’m sure he would be fine with it here as well. 

 

Yet more false equivalence.

 

Do you understand the difference between what the EU actually is? And what its member states actually are?

 

Just like a few Catalonian politicians can't unilaterally decide to leave Spain; or Corsica France; or Wallonia Belgium; Sturgeon can't decide to leave the UK. 

 

Johnson hasn't actually broken anything - yet. Another false comment.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Don't you just hate democracy....voters going around determining their own future.... should not be allowed.

 

....and for those who claim they have already had a referendum.....Brexit changed everything!

 

 

 

Only it's not really democracy when someone wants 4-5% of an electorate to decide a massively important issue is it?

 

No, Brexit changed nothing. More sophistry.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, phantomfiddler said:

I wonder who will be wanting to be the "Queen" of the new country Scotland ? 

 

No Queen, although the British Queen is half Scottish of course. A republic possibly?

 

And who would be "President for life"???? 555!

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, wombat said:

Is this where you keep voting untill you get the result you want?

 

Yes, and then immediately change the rules so it can never be changed back, regardless of what the people might want in the future!

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Only it's not really democracy when someone wants 4-5% of an electorate to decide a massively important issue is it?

 

No, Brexit changed nothing. More sophistry.

And there's me thinking it would be 100% of the electorate that would be deciding their own future.

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No Queen, although the British Queen is half Scottish of course. A republic possibly?

 

And who would be "President for life"???? 555!

Who cares?.....It is up to them.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Surely if the UK have the right to leave the EU then Scotland has the right to leave the United Kingdom! What goes around comes around and karma is a “beach!” ????

 

1. Scotland voted in 2014 and it's population voted to Remain.

 

2. The UK is a sovereign nation whereas the EU is a trading bloc.

 

Apart from that, a brilliant point well made ????.

 

[Surelynot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

 

1. Scotland voted in 2014 and it's population voted to Remain.

 

2. The UK is a sovereign nation whereas the EU is a trading bloc.

 

Apart from that, a brilliant point well made ????.

 

1. Brexit has 'happened' since then

2. Totally irrelevant.

 

Apart from that, a brilliant point well made ????

[JonnyF]

11 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

1. Brexit has 'happened' since then

2. Totally irrelevant.

 

Apart from that, a brilliant point well made ????

 

Get your own one liners dude, stop stealing mine.

 

And if you think a glorified trading bloc is the same as a sovereign nation, well, I'll be polite and suggest you do some reading up on that subject chum.

 

There's no reason to allow a minority of nationalist extremists to keep voting on this subject again and again when their fellow countrymen have already decided to remain in the UK.

 

Sturgeon can scowl and stomp her feet all she likes. She had her chance and lost. It's a very handy deflection away from her poor record on things like health, education and COVID though.????

[welovesundaysatspace]

33 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Do you understand the difference between what the EU actually is? And what its member states actually are?

I understand that the Scotland is member of union that it doesn’t want to be a member of anymore, same as was the case with the UK in the EU. I understand whereas the EU let’s it’s member states free decide whether and when to leave, the UK doesn’t. So, the difference is that EU member states are sovereign, whereas U.K. member states are not. Was that your point? 

 

 

33 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Just like a few Catalonian politicians can't unilaterally decide to leave Spain; or Corsica France; or Wallonia Belgium; Sturgeon can't decide to leave the UK. 

Just like Boris can break laws and agreements, so could Scotland. And I’m sure they could also come up with some bloomy sovereignty romantic about how it’s up to their parliament to decide domestic issues. Of course, they won’t do that; not everyone is like your Boris. 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

28 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

There's no reason to allow a minority of nationalist extremists to keep voting on this subject again and again when their fellow countrymen have already decided

For Brexit that was just good enough ???? 

[Laughing Gravy]

44 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

understand that the Scotland is member of union that it doesn’t want to be a member of anymore, same as was the case with the UK in the EU.

No your understanding is wrong again. They had once in a generation referendum that voted to stay part of the UK in 2014. it is only foreigners and the Scottish nationalist on here that keep bleating the same nonsense ,in the belief people may believe them..

[Laughing Gravy]

22 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

For Brexit that was just good enough

Obviously very poor at Mathematics and even worse at trying to be humorous.

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Surely if the UK have the right to leave the EU then Scotland has the right to leave the United Kingdom! What goes around comes around and karma is a “beach!” ????

Yes I agree. It took the UK 43 years to leave the EU with a referendum. Scotland had one 6 years ago and voted to stay in case you didn't know.

 

Karma can be very stupid at times.

[Surelynot]

I still don't understand why Brexiteers (and the English in particular) give a monkey's about Scotland wanting independence?

 

Why do you even care?

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, wombat said:

Is this where you keep voting untill you get the result you want?

Isn't that what Democracy is? Voting for what you want. 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

I still don't understand why Brexiteers (and the English in particular) give a monkey's about Scotland wanting independence?

 

Why do you even care?

They will lose a lot of money and might be kicked out their summer home. The grouse will be smiling. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

7 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

No your understanding is wrong again. They had once in a generation referendum that voted to stay part of the UK in 2014. it is only foreigners and the Scottish nationalist on here that keep bleating the same nonsense ,in the belief people may believe them..

I remember the UK had a once in a lifetime referendum in 1975 that voted to stay part of the EU. Still English nationalists kept bleating. 
 

In the end, you’ll have to accept that the Scottish will do what they want to do. Democracy isn’t some Englishmen telling another country whether and when and how often it may vote on whatever they want to vote. ???? 

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Isn't that what Democracy is? Voting for what you want. 

You forgot that Brexiteers are highly undemocratic. 

[Surelynot]

Just now, welovesundaysatspace said:

You forgot that Brexiteers are highly undemocratic. 

As their God Nigel said......52%  remain, 48% leave, does not mean the end of the matter!!!

[vogie]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I remember the UK had a once in a lifetime referendum in 1975 that voted to stay part of the EU. Still English nationalists kept bleating. 
 

In the end, you’ll have to accept that the Scottish will do what they want to do. Democracy isn’t some Englishmen telling another country whether and when and how often it may vote on whatever they want to vote. ???? 

Nobody has ever told Scotland what to do, the Scots themselves have chosen to stay within the UK, those are the facts, I'm sorry if it hurts you so much to face them.

[Neeranam]

When I was at school, there was a strong anti-English feeling. I remember playing rugby and cricket against Prince Edward, what a bunch of <deleted>.