Brexit talks still stuck because EU is asking too much, UK says

[pacovl46]

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The people were conned and lied. i thought anyone who comments on these Brexit threads would have known the scandal of ted Heath. if you don't whats the point of replying to any other your comments as clearly you haven't a foggiest idea what its all about.

 

Not to worry you have an army of foreigners on here who will fight your corner as they don't know either but love to tell us what to do and why, especially in the last few years since the UK left the EU..

Just like they’ve been conned and lied to this time by the Brexiteers. Biggest mistake in the history of the UK coming right up! ????

[luckyluke]

25 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

It is far more political than emotional. Ask Macron.

Political anyway, for Mr. Macron, Mr. Johnson,

and any politician who personally benefit from it.

Of course all under the same slogan : " we do it for the people ".

[placeholder]

36 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Per capita Germany is 3rd. UK 6th. France 9th. So what?

You're the one who raised the issue of the UK being the second highest net contributor. Not me. It's obviously a much better way to figure the obligation of a nation in relation to its population rather than to its total payment. What don't you understand about this?

[nauseus]

30 minutes ago, polpott said:

It was decimated by the British fleet owners selling their quotas to the Spanish and French.

 

You need to read what I said, again.

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You're the one who raised the issue of the UK being the second highest net contributor. Not me. It's obviously a much better way to figure the obligation of a nation in relation to its population rather than to its total payment. What don't you understand about this?

 

I can quote total contributions of of want to, can't I? You raised the per capita side and I am not complaining. What makes you think I don't understand the difference.

[placeholder]

Just now, nauseus said:

 

I can quote total contributions of of want to, can't I? You raised the per capita side and I am not complaining. What makes you think I don't understand the difference.

Because it's obviously not the most accurate way of figuring out how much of an draw it is on the resources of a nation. So why would you cite a figure that is not so nearly as useful a diagnostic? 

[nauseus]

Just now, placeholder said:

Because it's obviously not the most accurate way of figuring out how much of an draw it is on the resources of a nation. So why would you cite a figure that is not so nearly as useful a diagnostic? 

 

I hope that you can extract yourself, from yourself, one day.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I hope that you can extract yourself, from yourself, one day.

I hope that one day you'll have something better than empty insults to use in place of a genuine refutation. But since you got nothing, I guess you have to make it personal.

Edited December 2, 2020 by placeholder

[Kwasaki]

22 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Its getting to the stage where my legendary patience and understanding is wearing thin Vogie. 

I'm so glad to hear that from you we at last agree on something. ???? ????

[polpott]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

You need to read what I said, again.

No, you're alright mate, it was bad enough reading it once.

[puipuitom]

When you want to do business in any country, you have to do that in accordance with the laws of that country. And in case of de despite, go to the court in that country.

OR make an agreement, both can live with.

The EU simply ask an equal "playing field for all". So, no special tax advantages for British exporters into the EU, no social / wage/tax regulations for workers to reduce production costs, no environmental arrangements, allowing British manufacturers to dump fabrication wastes, and same safety regulations ( CE rules, no poisonous paint on toys, etc, just as the EU now is able to block "Chinese" goods, when not safe enough). Same for foods, etc etc etc. inclusive anti-dumping regulations.

And in case there is a disagreement, a court to be competent to make a judgement about the problem.

These the British reject, as will make British industry etc still to work under  the rules of the EU.

Last point: the British want to cancel all fishing quota sold by the British to EU fishermen, without any compensation.

There will be no solution.

Maybe the British are allowed to sell in ... Thailand with completely ignoring Thai laws and regulations  ?

Edited December 2, 2020 by puipuitom

[7by7]

On 12/1/2020 at 12:01 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

<snip>

The UK should just cancel the talks. They don't want to agree to a reasonable deal with the EU. Ok, fine, then don't waste everybody's time.

Boris and others always said no deal is better than a bad deal. Fine. No deal is it.

 

Despite his faults, Boris is not stupid. He knows that the UK needs a deal more than the EU does.

 

But he has to convince his Tory ERG backers that he is in charge, that the UK is dictating the terms. Otherwise he and Carrie will be on the phone to Pickford's early in the New Year!

 

Expect a deal to be announced at the last minute which. like his WA, Boris will proclaim to be his own, personal triumph.

 

Hopefully, unlike his WA, Boris then wont go back on his word and try and break another international treaty a few months later!

Edited December 2, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[puipuitom]

10 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Reasonable? Are you serious? There is nothing reasonable about what the EU is proposing.

 

Thank god we won in 2016 . Well done, UK electorate. Good riddance to the EU.

  The best Brexit cartoon ever.

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Garbage, there are very few countries not in a trading bloc.

 

• 

 

So many Brexiteers do not have the faintest idea, how the wold changed since Lord Kitchiner passed away.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

Plus 1. I voted to join the EEC and NOT the EU.

The UK government signed and UK Parliament ratified. Sorry, we cannot organise a referendum about every step. So.. OUT.  Maybe... the governement of King George may again apply for a membership ?

[puipuitom]

19 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Despite his faults, Boris is not stupid. He knows that the UK needs a deal more than the EU does.

 

But he has to convince his Tory ERG backers that he is in charge, that the UK is dictating the terms. Otherwise he and Carrie will be on the phone to Pickford's early in the New Year!

 

Expect a deal to be announced at the last minute which. like his WA, Boris will proclaim to be his own, personal triumph.

 

Hopefully, unlike his WA, Boris then wont go back on his word and try and break another international treaty a few months later!

Therefore... do not make any agreement with Boris the Liar. Only a new referendum, with at least 75% of all British voters in favour for a new membership of the EU, no special rights anymore, accept the €uro, Schengen, and right lane traffic. And no new Brexit anymore the coming 100 years.

[CorpusChristie]

25 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

  The best Brexit cartoon ever.

 

   The E.U kicking the UK out the EU ?

The reality is that you did all you could to get us to stay .

Ferage even pleaded with you NOT to give any more extensions to the talks so that we could leave , but no, the EU gave extension after extensions .

   All you had to say was "No more extensions" and we would have left a lot sooner 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   The E.U kicking the UK out the EU ?

The reality is that you did all you could to get us to stay .

Ferage even pleaded with you NOT to give any more extensions to the talks so that we could leave , but no, the EU gave extension after extensions .

   All you had to say was "No more extensions" and we would have left a lot sooner 

All the UK had to say was "No more extensions" and leave.

[welovesundaysatspace]

56 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 the EU gave extension after extensions .

   All you had to say was "No more extensions" and we would have left a lot sooner 

But you didn’t want to leave. Otherwise you hadn’t asked for extension after extension. 

[billd766]

5 hours ago, luckyluke said:

" Both E.U. puppets "

is of course a perception.

Many will certainly concur,

as many others won't.

Very true.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

No, they are still in the mood of cherry picking and law breaking actions 

Whose laws are they breaking?

[AmySeeker]

On 12/1/2020 at 11:23 AM, welovesundaysatspace said:

Expect in two days an article reading “UK and EU keen to get a deal, but time is running out” 

 

Then two days later “We want a deal, say EU and UK, but not at any price” 

 

This starts to feel like that Bill Murray movie. And it will probably go on like this for a while, even after 1 Jan 21. 

 

The year 2035 - Headline on the BBC -  "The UK and EU want a deal. "

[polpott]

3 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Ferage even pleaded with you NOT to give any more extensions to the talks so that we could leave , but no, the EU gave extension after extensions .

Was Farage a member of Parliament? Why would anyone listen to that half wit? It would have made more sense to have consulted the Chuckle Brothers.

[david555]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/02/brexit-uk-has-lowered-demands-on-fish-catches-says-eu

 

Brexit: UK has lowered demands on fish catches, says EU

Significant gap remains as two sides enter crucial 48 hours of talks

 

Daniel Boffey in Brussels and Lisa O'Carroll

Wed 2 Dec 2020 16.37 GMT

First published on Wed 2 Dec 2020 12.28 GMT

 

Boris Johnson has lowered his Brexit demands by asking EU fishing fleets to hand over up to 60% of the value of stocks it takes from British waters, but the gap with Brussels remains wide, Michel Barnier has said ahead of what he described as a crucial 36 hours.

 

In briefings to EU ambassadors and MEPs in Brussels, the bloc’s chief negotiator said Downing Street had revised its demand down from 80%, but that it was unclear whether the divide could be bridged in the time remaining, prompting member states to caution against rushing into a deal.

 

The EU has so far offered the repatriation of 15%-18% of the value of stocks caught in the Channel, Irish Sea and north-east Atlantic, a proposal dismissed as “derisory” by Downing Street.

 

more...

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by david555

[7by7]

I see that the canard that we were lied to in 1975 has reared it's head in this topic, too.

 

I've provided proof that we were not lied to in 1975 here:

  I wont repeat the whole post, just this graphic

[david555]

 (Incase some thought Boris bill was forgotten & forgiven....NO WAY...! ) ????

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-crisis-michel-barnier-eu-no-deal-b1765278.html

 

Brexit talks heading for ‘crisis’ as EU warns Boris Johnson to stop breaking international law or face no deal

UK set to push ahead with legislation that would break commitments made to EU earlier this year 

 

Jon Stone

Policy Correspondent

@joncstone

6 hours ago

 

Brexit trade talks are facing total collapse over Boris Johnson’s new plans to tear up commitments he made to the EU at the beginning of the year.

Michel Barnier, Brussels’ chief negotiator, told EU ambassadors on Wednesday that the UK government was triggering a new “crisis” with just four weeks to go until a no deal hits Channel ports.  

 

 

It comes as Downing Street pledged to overrule the House of Lords and reinsert controversial causes into its Internal Market Bill that ministers have admitted break international law.

 

The legislation, which would overwrite the Brexit agreement, could also be backed by similar clauses in the government’s upcoming Finance Bill – a move the EU has made clear it would see as the ultimate provocation.

 

more...

Edited December 3, 2020 by david555

[phetphet]

23 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

The EU was always doomed - too many seeing it as a freebies club.

 

The Kinnocks come to mind. Whole family made a career out of  it.

[CorpusChristie]

9 hours ago, polpott said:

Was Farage a member of Parliament? Why would anyone listen to that half wit? It would have made more sense to have consulted the Chuckle Brothers.

 

  He was an Euro MP and he was addressing the European Parliament 

[Laughing Gravy]

18 hours ago, luckyluke said:

"puppet : a person,  under the control of another."

 

Unless there are undeniable concrete proofs, accepted by everyone,  it remains a conviction.

 

Mr. Johnson was accused to be the puppet of Mr. Cummings,

there have never been irrefutable proofs of this.

So again are you saying Major and Blair are/were not puppets of the EU not you have a definition?

 

As for proof look at the Lisbon and Maastricht treaties for starters.

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, puipuitom said:

And in case there is a disagreement, a court to be competent to make a judgement about the problem.

Exactly, every trade deal includes a dispute resolution process. The most common, initiated by the US, is Investor State Dispute Settlement which can give one country the ability to manipulate another country's politics.

The EU abandoned that version of ISDS and in the Canada deal a new court arrangement was set up to deal with disputes. If the UK wanted a Canada type agreement they should have got their act together a bit sooner, that door has been closed for some time. It should also be borne in mind that the Canada deal is not fully ratified.

 

This represents a clear break from the old Investor to State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) approach and demonstrates the shared determination of the EU and Canada to replace the current ISDS system with a new dispute settlement mechanism and move towards establishing a permanent multilateral investment court. This revised CETA text is also a clear signal of the EU’s intent to include this new proposal on investment in its negotiations with all partners.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/lt/IP_16_399

 

This statement should also be noted

"A further provision clarifies that CETA will not prevent the EU from enforcing its laws on state aid."