Brexit talks still stuck because EU is asking too much, UK says

[pacovl46]

7 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Another foreigner telling the people of the UK that a democratic referendum result was wrong. Excuse me if I go and puke at your answer.

Since when does one have to be a citizen of the UK to recognize that the UK is making a horrible mistake? 

 

But with your type of reasoning it’s no surprise that you people can’t see that! ????
 

As Confucius said, you always see your own mistakes the best with the eyes of others! 
 

 

[transam]

6 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Since when does one have to be a citizen of the UK to recognize that the UK is making a horrible mistake? 

 

But with your type of reasoning it’s no surprise that you people can’t see that! ????
 

As Confucius said, you always see your own mistakes the best with the eyes of others! 
 

 

Perhaps because you ain't a Brit to understand, eh....????

[Phulublub]

9 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Since when does one have to be a citizen of the UK to recognize that the UK is making a horrible mistake? 

 

But with your type of reasoning it’s no surprise that you people can’t see that! ????
 

As Confucius said, you always see your own mistakes the best with the eyes of others! 
 

 

Ah pacovl.....please be assured it is only a minority of Brits who think the way the OP does. 

 

There are some vocal, opinionated and utterly convinced that Johhny Foreginer simply does know the first thing about which he speaks is only out to do Britain down and that the entire World is second rate in comparison.

 

Then there are the rest of us.  It is to our detriment that we were unable to counter the lies and meaningless soundbites of the Leave campaign or all this bitterness and mutual self destruction could have been avoided.

 

PH

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Phulublub

[transam]

1 minute ago, Phulublub said:

Ah pacovl.....please be assured it is only a minority of Bruts who think the wap the OP does. 

 

There are some vocal, opinionated and utterly convinced that Johhny Foreginer simply does know the first thing about which he speaks is only out to do Britain down and that the entire World is second rate in comparison.

 

Then there are the rest of us.  It is to our detriment that we were unable to counter the lies and meaningless soundbites of the Leave campaign or all this bitterness and mutual self destruction could have been avoided.

 

PH

 

 

Your first sentence is totally wrong, so I will forget the rest, Bill......????

[Phulublub]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Perhaps because you ain't a Brit to understand, eh....????

Says a man in a sentence that is not good English!

 

PH

[transam]

Just now, Phulublub said:

Says a man in a sentence that is not good English!

 

PH

ATTENTION:- Grammar police in attendance.....????

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Since when does one have to be a citizen of the UK to recognize that the UK is making a horrible mistake? 

 

But with your type of reasoning it’s no surprise that you people can’t see that! ????
 

As Confucius said, you always see your own mistakes the best with the eyes of others! 
 

 

If you look back in History there was a large group of British people that thought Appeasement was the correct and best policy

Appeasement was strongly supported by the British upper class, including royalty, big business (based in the City of London), the House of Lords, and media such as the BBC and The Times

https://www.wsj.com/articles/appeasement-review-what-were-they-thinking-11572619353

 

Where would the EU be today if everyone just listened to those people

 

[7by7]

9 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Another foreigner telling the people of the UK that a democratic referendum result was wrong. Excuse me if I go and puke at your answer.

 I'm a Brit, and I, too, like many of my fellow countrymen believe that the 2016 decision was the wrong one. 

 

Even as early as July 2016, many who voted Leave had started to think the same as the true effects of Brexit and the post referendum U-turns by Vote.Leave became apparent: Brexit research suggests 1.2 million Leave voters regret their choice in reversal that could change result

Quote

Up to 7 per cent of the people who voted for a Brexit in the EU referendum now regret their choice, new research has found.

Though to be fair, it also says

Quote

Research by Opinium found that 3 per cent of those who voted Remain also regretted their choice

 

If there was a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?

Quote

Field work dates: 13 February 2012 - 19 October 2020
Data from: Great Britain
Results from: 86 polls (by YouGov).

 Note how ever since the actual referendum, Remain has been ahead in nearly all the polls. In the latest, 19/10/20,

• Remain 46%
• Leave40%,
• Don't know 8%
• Would not vote 6% .

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

If you look back in History there was a large group of British people that thought Appeasement was the correct and best policy

Appeasement was strongly supported by the British upper class, including royalty, big business (based in the City of London), the House of Lords, and media such as the BBC and The Times

https://www.wsj.com/articles/appeasement-review-what-were-they-thinking-11572619353

 

Where would the EU be today if everyone just listened to those people

 

 When in doubt, bring up the Nazis!

 

Chamberlain was wrong; for the right reasons. He wanted to avoid the carnage a whole generation had suffered in the trenches of the Great War. He failed in this because he underestimated Hitler's true aims.

 

For arguments for and against, see Was Chamberlain Right to Appease Hitler?

 

At the end of the second war, Western European countries wanted to avoid such devastation again. This led to the formation of, among other organisations, the European Coal and Steel Community. "The ECSC was the first international organisation to be based on the principles of supranationalism and started the process of formal integration which ultimately led to the European Union." (Source)

[vinny41]

35 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I'm a Brit, and I, too, like many of my fellow countrymen believe that the 2016 decision was the wrong one. 

 

Even as early as July 2016, many who voted Leave had started to think the same as the true effects of Brexit and the post referendum U-turns by Vote.Leave became apparent: Brexit research suggests 1.2 million Leave voters regret their choice in reversal that could change result

Though to be fair, it also says

 

If there was a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?

 Note how ever since the actual referendum, Remain has been ahead in nearly all the polls. In the latest, 19/10/20,

• Remain 46%
• Leave40%,
• Don't know 8%
• Would not vote 6% .

 

I would have thought by now you would have given up on this topic as we both know that polls always come out in favour of the sponsor and therefore are not reliable or should i repost the polls that go back to 2010 where the majority of people that answered the polls voted for leave

[vinny41]

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 When in doubt, bring up the Nazis!

 

Chamberlain was wrong; for the right reasons. He wanted to avoid the carnage a whole generation had suffered in the trenches of the Great War. He failed in this because he underestimated Hitler's true aims.

 

For arguments for and against, see Was Chamberlain Right to Appease Hitler?

 

At the end of the second war, Western European countries wanted to avoid such devastation again. This led to the formation of, among other organisations, the European Coal and Steel Community. "The ECSC was the first international organisation to be based on the principles of supranationalism and started the process of formal integration which ultimately led to the European Union." (Source)

are you saying that these British groups of people were all Nazis's

Appeasement was strongly supported by the British upper class, including royalty, big business (based in the City of London), the House of Lords, and media such as the BBC and The Times

[7by7]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I would have thought by now you would have given up on this topic as we both know that polls always come out in favour of the sponsor and therefore are not reliable or should i repost the polls that go back to 2010 where the majority of people that answered the polls voted for leave

 

I posted results of a poll taken just one month after the referendum.

 

I have posted a poll from YouGov; a company much favoured by Brexiteers until their results started showing that, having discovered the truth, most respondents were becoming disillusioned with Brexit and if offered the opportunity would now vote to Remain!

 

Which that poll, which gives results from February 2012 to October 2020, clearly shows. 

 

But, of course, I am talking about now; not 2016, not 2012, not 2010.

 

So go on; produce a poll from now which shows that the majority still support Leave.

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

are you saying that these British groups of people were all Nazis's

Appeasement was strongly supported by the British upper class, including royalty, big business (based in the City of London), the House of Lords, and media such as the BBC and The Times

 

No.

 

Who do you think Chamberlain was appeasing if not Hitler and his Nazi party?

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

No.

 

Who do you think Chamberlain was appeasing if not Hitler and his Nazi party?

If you look at the groups that supported Appeasement and the groups that are staunch Pro EU you will see they are similar

Appeasement was strongly supported by the British upper class, including royalty, big business (based in the City of London), the House of Lords, and media such as the BBC and The Times

 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

If you look back in History there was a large group of British people that thought Appeasement was the correct and best policy

Appeasement was strongly supported by the British upper class, including royalty, big business (based in the City of London), the House of Lords, and media such as the BBC and The Times

https://www.wsj.com/articles/appeasement-review-what-were-they-thinking-11572619353

 

Where would the EU be today if everyone just listened to those people

 

 

If you look back in history you will find many English monarchs who thought the unification of europe was a great idea. So long as they were in change.

Then you can look at the Victorian era where the unification of the entire planet was a great idea so long as England was running it.

Or maybe the 16th century where the unification of the British isles was a great idea so long as England was running it. Oh wait. You guys still think thats a great idea.

 

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I posted results of a poll taken just one month after the referendum.

 

I have posted a poll from YouGov; a company much favoured by Brexiteers until their results started showing that, having discovered the truth, most respondents were becoming disillusioned with Brexit and if offered the opportunity would now vote to Remain!

 

Which that poll, which gives results from February 2012 to October 2020, clearly shows. 

 

But, of course, I am talking about now; not 2016, not 2012, not 2010.

 

So go on; produce a poll from now which shows that the majority still support Leave.

Pointless as you have already stated you don't believe in polls

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Pointless as you have already stated you don't believe in polls

 

So if we cant believe the polls how else should we gauge public opinion?

Hey maybe we could have a vote on it and find out?

[Bruntoid]

On 12/2/2020 at 8:25 AM, JonnyF said:

 

Reasonable? Are you serious? There is nothing reasonable about what the EU is proposing.

 

Every day there is no 'breakthrough' is a good day as far I am concerned. The EU is incapable of compromise, so hopefully we'll go No Deal and they will lose their fishing rights and jeopardize their huge trade surplus. The French fisherman, German car workers, Italian winemakers etc. will all be thrilled that Barnier has thrown them under the bus due to the EU commission's vendetta, especially in the middle of Covid. Greed, intransigence and spite, what a nasty combination of attributes the EU has shown as it's mask has slipped.

 

Thank god we won in 2016 . Well done, UK electorate. Good riddance to the EU.

Demented hysterical garbage ! 
 

Is fish all you’ve got left to cling to now ? That sub 1% contribution to the U.K. 
 

Here’s a challenge - name a few industry bodies that thinks Brexit was a good idea ........????????‍♂️ - actually name any! 

[Bruntoid]

On 12/2/2020 at 12:07 PM, Gandtee said:

And as the song goes 'We will never bow the knee.' We've been doing it too long with the EU.

That song would be ??

[sotonowl]

The EU want a transitional 10 year deal to protect their fishermen from going bust, just like they did for us when ours went broke. Just tell them to do one.

[7by7]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

If you look at the groups that supported Appeasement and the groups that are staunch Pro EU you will see they are similar

Appeasement was strongly supported by the British upper class, including royalty, big business (based in the City of London), the House of Lords, and media such as the BBC and The Times

 

 

Yes, many people, not just those you mention, did support appeasement; for the same reason previously mentioned for Chamberlain. To try and avoid the horrors of total war which wiped out almost an entire generation of European young men just two decades previously.

 

But to compare that to being pro EU is a sign of the utmost desperation.

[7by7]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Pointless as you have already stated you don't believe in polls

 Whereas you have used them to support your viewpoint.

 

Rather you have used 10 year old ones to try and prove what people think now!

 

So go on; show us a current poll with a result that shows the majority of British respondents are in favour of Brexit.

 

Or will you admit you can't find one?

 

[vinny41]

36 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yes, many people, not just those you mention, did support appeasement; for the same reason previously mentioned for Chamberlain. To try and avoid the horrors of total war which wiped out almost an entire generation of European young men just two decades previously.

 

But to compare that to being pro EU is a sign of the utmost desperation.

No sign of desperation from my part  merely an observation

[vinny41]

41 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Whereas you have used them to support your viewpoint.

 

Rather you have used 10 year old ones to try and prove what people think now!

 

So go on; show us a current poll with a result that shows the majority of British respondents are in favour of Brexit.

 

Or will you admit you can't find one?

 

As we both know polls can be skewed depending on how the question is  phrased and its pointless asking the question about remaining in the eu as that is no longer an option since the UK left 31st January 2020

so for the dates between  Field work dates: 4 February 2020 - 9 November 2020

The question was asked 

Should the United Kingdom join the European Union or stay out of the European Union?

As we can see from the results here for join ranges from 31% to 37% and the ranges for stay out are from 33% to 39% with the don't knows ranges from 28% to 31%

so a small margin in favour of staying out  over the past 4 months vs rejoining 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-join-the-european-union-or-stay-out-of-the-european-union/?pollster[]=tns

[transam]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 I'm a Brit, and I, too, like many of my fellow countrymen believe that the 2016 decision was the wrong one. 

 

Even as early as July 2016, many who voted Leave had started to think the same as the true effects of Brexit and the post referendum U-turns by Vote.Leave became apparent: Brexit research suggests 1.2 million Leave voters regret their choice in reversal that could change result

Though to be fair, it also says

 

If there was a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?

 Note how ever since the actual referendum, Remain has been ahead in nearly all the polls. In the latest, 19/10/20,

• Remain 46%
• Leave40%,
• Don't know 8%
• Would not vote 6% .

 

Still trying to change the vote eh, how tiresome....

You prefer polls, that mean nothing,  and not the actual democratic vote that leave won.

Do you know what hypocrite means....? 

[transam]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yes, many people, not just those you mention, did support appeasement; for the same reason previously mentioned for Chamberlain. To try and avoid the horrors of total war which wiped out almost an entire generation of European young men just two decades previously.

 

But to compare that to being pro EU is a sign of the utmost desperation.

"Desperation", I thought that was the route you were taking here, regarding you losing a democratic vote.. ????

[pacovl46]

15 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Ah pacovl.....please be assured it is only a minority of Brits who think the way the OP does. 

 

There are some vocal, opinionated and utterly convinced that Johhny Foreginer simply does know the first thing about which he speaks is only out to do Britain down and that the entire World is second rate in comparison.

 

Then there are the rest of us.  It is to our detriment that we were unable to counter the lies and meaningless soundbites of the Leave campaign or all this bitterness and mutual self destruction could have been avoided.

 

PH

 

 

By ‘you people’ I meant people thinking like him! But good to know that there’s still people like you, too! ????

[pacovl46]

14 hours ago, vinny41 said:

If you look back in History there was a large group of British people that thought Appeasement was the correct and best policy

Appeasement was strongly supported by the British upper class, including royalty, big business (based in the City of London), the House of Lords, and media such as the BBC and The Times

https://www.wsj.com/articles/appeasement-review-what-were-they-thinking-11572619353

 

Where would the EU be today if everyone just listened to those people

 

Well, all it would’ve taken would have been to forget about the outrageous reparations the English and the French wanted from Germany, which Germany could’ve never paid back and France and the UK most likely would still have most of their colonies...

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Since when does one have to be a citizen of the UK to recognize that the UK is making a horrible mistake? 

 

But with your type of reasoning it’s no surprise that you people can’t see that! ????
 

As Confucius said, you always see your own mistakes the best with the eyes of others! 
 

 

Exactly, but human nature being what it is, those that made the mistake are reluctant to admit it.

Given the current situation a no deal would probably be a better outcome than some desperate bodged deal.

 

After a couple of years on WTO reality will sink in and create the incentive for a much better long term relationship. A case of short term pain leading to long term gain.

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Exactly, but human nature being what it is, those that made the mistake are reluctant to admit it.

Given the current situation a no deal would probably be a better outcome than some desperate bodged deal.

 

After a couple of years on WTO reality will sink in and create the incentive for a much better long term relationship. A case of short term pain leading to long term gain.

 

I find it amusing that you quote leavers  "made a mistake and reluctant to admit it", now how about you, who lost the remain vote, is "Reluctant to admit it".....????