PEA feed-in tarriff rates?

[3STTW]

I've come into a few bucks and I'm thinking about a 5kW on-grid system system, I'm not directly interested in the ROI, I just want to kill off the monthly PEA bill and maybe earn some extra cash to put towards other bills.

 

Anybody know how much the PEA will pay per unit when you are generating from an on-grid solar system? I've been looking at some highly optimistic quotes from various solar installers regarding the return-on-investment (ROI) period. Some are suggesting that you can recoup all your costs in 4 years which would suggest that the PEA have pretty incredible feed-in rates!

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, 3STTW said:

I've come into a few bucks and I'm thinking about a 5kW on-grid system system, I'm not directly interested in the ROI, I just want to kill off the monthly PEA bill and maybe earn some extra cash to put towards other bills.

 

Anybody know how much the PEA will pay per unit when you are generating from an on-grid solar system? I've been looking at some highly optimistic quotes from various solar installers regarding the return-on-investment (ROI) period. Some are suggesting that you can recoup all your costs in 4 years which would suggest that the PEA have pretty incredible feed-in rates!

It’s not at all easy to get an official PEA approval, it will probably at least double the private install cost and even if you can get it the feed-in tariff is about ¼ of the normal cost, it also takes a very long time to process.

 

the way you may get a 4 year ROI is if you can run your meter backwards without getting caught by your meter reader and do your own install. If caught you will probably have a meter fitted that won’t run backwards.

 

So you will need to size the system carefully as a negative number will throw up red flags to the PEA.

 

Some people are successful and have been for quite some time, others, not so much and have had non export meters fitted.

Edited December 1, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[Crossy]

Yup ^^^.

 

Have a look at my Solar Carport thread:-

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1120934-how-about-a-solar-car-port-on-a-budget/

 

Start here for the latest configuration 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1120934-how-about-a-solar-car-port-on-a-budget/?do=findComment&comment=15514533

 

We have a similar sized system as you are planning with an inverter that has a "do not export" function that is only enabled on meter reader days so he doesn't see it going backwards

 

It's doing over 50% of our usage on average but our bill is still 2k per month ???? 

 

Current ROI from a completely DIY install is under 3 years if we don't get sussed by PEA.

 

You could also consider a hybrid system which puts spare solar power into batteries for use at night. The meter never goes backwards but you're still grid tie (most hybrids have an "emergency" output to power essentials if the mains is off).

[Crossy]

From my other thread:-

 

In order to be eligible for the FIT (called "My Solar Roof" IIRC) you have to:-

• Use an approved inverter = $$$ PEA List here  https://www.pea.co.th/Portals/0/Document/vspp/PQM/PEA_Inverter_List_20200611.pdf
• Use an approved installer (no DIY) = more $$$
• Sign up for a significant period.
• Get paid about 2 Baht for each unit you export before paying 4.5 Baht for the same unit when you import it later.
• Get a absolute mound of paperwork approved by PEA.

Having spoken to PEA we decided to wing it, if we get caught out they will install a no reverse meter and we will have to look at whether it's worth going for a hybrid (batteries) solution.

[3STTW]

Superb advice and information guys, thank you.

 

It was my understanding that the installer is supposed to fit a PEA approved inverter and do all the paperwork malarkey - but I may be wrong. I wouldn’t attempt the ‘legal’ method unless this was done on my behalf. All the same, the 2 Baht feed-in rate is much better than I’d expected.

 

My current monthly bill is about THB6.5k and the lion’s share of that is the pool (1.5kW x 8hrs) and the AC units. So a daily average of about 56kWh.
 

Going down the battery route, if I change the timing of the pool pump to daylight only, my nighttime consumption would be 1 AC, fridges plus some lights and TV in the evening. Even then, that’s going to need a pretty hefty clutch of batteries and the costs start to escalate dramatically.

 

Nevertheless, I’m not giving up just yet!

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, 3STTW said:

It was my understanding that the installer is supposed to fit a PEA approved inverter and do all the paperwork malarkey - but I may be wrong.

 

They should of course although the few members who have actually written about going the legal way seem to have actually ended up doing a lot of the legwork themselves.

 

Talk to your prospective contractor(s) again about just what they intend doing for you as far as getting legal / on the FIT.

 

Please let us know how you get on as many if not most of us are actually doing it the "slightly less than legal" way.

 

 

[3STTW]

Thanks Crossy, I’ll make some more enquiries on that front.

 

Another factor which I forgot to mention earlier is that all my power cabling is all underground. That is, from the meter box outside, under the front garden, to the DB under the stairs. This probably means that the inverter will need to be under the stairs and, if I decide to go with the battery solution, so will the battery stack.

 

I don’t fancy having 16kWh of energy squirrelled away under there with no ventilation!

 

I was considering some remodelling at the front of the house so this may be an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone, albeit with less storage space than I wanted.

 

Finally, any recommendations for battery suppliers in LoS? I’m inclined to go for the separate batteries rather then the combo units with the inverter.

[Crossy]

Task A is going to be to decide exactly what you want to achieve and are you going to go DIY or employ a contractor.

 

A simple entry level grid-tie DIY of 4 panels on home-built stands and a 1200W grid-tie inverter will give you 4-5 kWh per day and can be simply plugged in to a regular outlet and start offsetting your bills for 10-12k Baht.

 

Where are you going to put your panels? Ours are conveniently on the car-port (deliberately designed and positioned for the purpose) so they're easy to get at, the inverter lives just under the car port roof (we have no batteries as yet, but there's space for them in the same area).

 

If you can get on the PEA FIT you won't need batteries unless you want a hybrid system which can provide emergency power when the mains is off. Last time I looked there was only one hybrid inverter on the PEA approvals list, but at least there was one.

 

16kWh of batteries is going to be about 350Ah @ 48V of LiFePO4 (double that for lead-acid), probably about 3 grand US just for the batteries ????   I agree I wouldn't want that much energy stored in the house! 

 

The best deals for batteries are on AliBaba or AliExpress although there are an increasing number on Lazada (check out the other solar threads for links).

[millymoopoo]

On 12/1/2020 at 10:51 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

It’s not at all easy to get an official PEA approval, it will probably at least double the private install cost and even if you can get it the feed-in tariff is about ¼ of the normal cost, it also takes a very long time to process.

 

the way you may get a 4 year ROI is if you can run your meter backwards without getting caught by your meter reader and do your own install. If caught you will probably have a meter fitted that won’t run backwards.

 

So you will need to size the system carefully as a negative number will throw up red flags to the PEA.

I didn't even know PEA now allows 'feed in' when we looked into it a few years ago it was a flat 'no'.
If you do have an 'analog' meter, with a disc that rotates, yes you can feed in, but care needs to be taken not to get caught.

Learn how to read your meter, learn when the PEA man comes to read your meter.

Do not allow your meter to read less than the previous read as sure as chickens lay eggs your PEA man will report it and bingo, a new digital (non reversible) meter will be installed.

Always check your meter has more on it than last time, about a week before your PEA man comes to read it.
Turn your panels off if need be, to ensure your meter reads more.

Try to graduate it as time goes by, eg: first period 30% less, second period 40% less, third period 50% less and so on, chances are gradually reduced consumption will not raise any alarm bells at PEA.

If you can sight the panels to the rear of the house better still as no one can see them from the road.

[sometimewoodworker]

11 minutes ago, millymoopoo said:

I didn't even know PEA now allows 'feed in' when we looked into it a few years ago it was a flat 'no'.

The PEA started the schemes quite a long time ago, but the “flat no” has been a common answer from the start. It has never been easy, and in many places was and is impossible.

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, millymoopoo said:

I didn't even know PEA now allows 'feed in' when we looked into it a few years ago it was a flat 'no'.
If you do have an 'analog' meter, with a disc that rotates, yes you can feed in, but care needs to be taken not to get caught.

Learn how to read your meter, learn when the PEA man comes to read your meter.

Do not allow your meter to read less than the previous read as sure as chickens lay eggs your PEA man will report it and bingo, a new digital (non reversible) meter will be installed.

Always check your meter has more on it than last time, about a week before your PEA man comes to read it.
Turn your panels off if need be, to ensure your meter reads more.

Try to graduate it as time goes by, eg: first period 30% less, second period 40% less, third period 50% less and so on, chances are gradually reduced consumption will not raise any alarm bells at PEA.

If you can sight the panels to the rear of the house better still as no one can see them from the road.

 

Yes ^^^. All of that ????

 

We have an internet enabled meter (DIY job, check out https://thingspeak.com/channels/991448 )

and I can also turn off "export" automatically by date and if necessary over the net (see the carport thread for details of both). I religiously check the potential bill every morning (with my tea, Frosties, banana and orange juice). We're actually at the point where I don't actually need to manage it now having "trained" the meter reader with gradually reducing bills, but it's become habit to check. 

 

 

 

 

[ronaldo0]

I read before PEA had problems with people using solar on their houses . It was something to do with if you basically had zero electric bill or very low all the time due to using solar then they would not let you connect to their electric anymore . Is this the case ? 

[Crossy]

26 minutes ago, ronaldo0 said:

I read before PEA had problems with people using solar on their houses . It was something to do with if you basically had zero electric bill or very low all the time due to using solar then they would not let you connect to their electric anymore . Is this the case ? 

 

I've not heard of anyone actually being prohibited.

 

But several forum members have had no-reverse meters installed, even those with "legal" (but not FIT) installations.

 

There's no doubt that PEA (and probably MEA) really don't like "net metering" but there are many thousands of systems around Thailand doing just that (ours included).

 

With no easy access to the FIT system what else is one to do?

[3STTW]

13 hours ago, Crossy said:

Task A is going to be to decide exactly what you want to achieve and are you going to go DIY or employ a contractor.

 

A simple entry level grid-tie DIY of 4 panels on home-built stands and a 1200W grid-tie inverter will give you 4-5 kWh per day and can be simply plugged in to a regular outlet and start offsetting your bills for 10-12k Baht.

 

Where are you going to put your panels? Ours are conveniently on the car-port (deliberately designed and positioned for the purpose) so they're easy to get at, the inverter lives just under the car port roof (we have no batteries as yet, but there's space for them in the same area).

 

If you can get on the PEA FIT you won't need batteries unless you want a hybrid system which can provide emergency power when the mains is off. Last time I looked there was only one hybrid inverter on the PEA approvals list, but at least there was one.

 

16kWh of batteries is going to be about 350Ah @ 48V of LiFePO4 (double that for lead-acid), probably about 3 grand US just for the batteries ????   I agree I wouldn't want that much energy stored in the house! 

 

The best deals for batteries are on AliBaba or AliExpress although there are an increasing number on Lazada (check out the other solar threads for links).

My initial objective was to produce at least twice as much power as I use during the day and use the feed in tariff to offset what I use at night. As things stand, this would probably reduce my bill by about 70% at best.

 

I have 72 sq.m of flat roof over my garage and probably the same again on a SW facing house extension, so no shortage of space. 
 

I’m not overly inclined to get into all the PEA nonsense of registering and committing to long-term contracts, I’ve had enough pain from them over the last few years and I’m not going to sign up for more. Therefore, I’m going to go with the reverse meter plan from the outset - with a commitment to add batteries as soon as possible.

 

I will be doing some modifications to the house and I’ve updated the plans to include a battery room (1.2 x 2.4m) which will be adjacent to the storage room where the existing DB is. I can put all the other ancillary electronics in there too.

 

Regarding the installation, I’ll get an installer to put the panels up and I’ll do the electrics myself.

[Crossy]

@3STTW Have a look at the Sofar range of hybrid inverters 

http://www.sofarsolar.com/products/hybrid-3k-6k-ep 

fanless and IP65, and the same form-factor as their pure grid-tie range so you could start with the grid-tie (much cheaper) version and then swap in a hybrid if/when you need to go battery.

 

We have the grid-tie 6KTLM which is working well.

 

EDIT If you don't want to go hybrid immediately it's worth looking at going regular grid-tie now then adding a storage control system later.

Basically it's a mains powered battery charger and an inverter along with the relevant smarts to pull up to 3kW of excess power from your grid-tie and push it into a battery, releasing it later when your usage exceeds the solar generation.

http://www.sofarsolar.com/product-detail/323/ME-3000SP

 

 

[kamalabob2]

The OP might go in person to see the feed in rate. I was quoted 1baht at the main office of the Buriram PEA about 6 months ago. It might have been raised since I was quoted that figure. Yes it was made clear on approved equipment and they gave me a list in person. 

[ThomasWWW]

Thanks for all posts,

since 14 months a tie-grid works here, automatic shut down if no grid, manual cutter and secure cut - what I do if longer down, to make sure workers are safe.

As we have a industrial grid connection, and the bill reached over 10k Baht with 2 households and a business, I started the reduce from solar slow, low (learning how) and enlarged every month with another cell. Started with about 250 KW/h monthly to now 550 ... The bill is still near 5k Baht in winter (no fans, no air-cons) and is still higher than older year bills same month. The other users in our grid are compensating my reducing.

The cells are hidden as two nearby house with each own roof allow no access to see them ... and safe from storms ... the electric is safe far from main official view.

 

In my thoughts, there are two ways to check if and how high a system should be:

* monthly / daily summary to avoid to strong reducing ... or even negative bill

* check maximum stable usage, at us about 4000 Watt/h as of business : Fans, Fridges, TV, server as a baseline not to over supply with solar inverter = no feedback ... safe way

= so with this both you can calculate your possible system : not exceeding  daily peak and monthly sum

+ depending on system size make sure have a good connection to main house cable, at 2 KW i have 4.5 sqmm cable direct bound to the area cable with 16 sqmm.

 

An optimal solution might be a inverter with a self maximum deliver, so you may loose some harvest at noon, but can hold a higher steady flat income not exceeding that consumption in my household. Flatten the top of the solar harvest curve.The Senergy 2k was told (handbook) to have max 2, showing internal 2.2 ... but with external meter even reached 2.400 - so the wrong one for this idea.

Or as I will test later, 2 Inverter with each cells in different direction: one to east ?20%  get more morning income, the other one to west for afternoon harvest. So I avoid one big peak at noon, and get more stable high income for longer time, fixing to typical usage during our day. Separating the both peaks ...

 

My meter is checked around 7am ...

 

I would not mind about easier even cheap low feed in price - as this is still cheaper than a expensive hybrid system.

As of my calculation it should be very less, as my harvest is near 3.400 KW/h and most time under typical the usage.

 

I am not looking for income, it is just a better feeling to have near 100% of private power (all/main about 30%) consumption by "clean" energy and  help to safe my daughters future saving climate.

Also now in summer much "easier" to open air-con between 10 and 14.

 

The attached file is a early calculation at beginning, to see now washing machine run after 10, air-con between 10-14 and all other high energy usages like cooking, baking in this time-window around the solar peak.

 

Good Luck.

[Crossy]

This thread may be handy

 

 

Along with this post and the follow-ups