Thai tourism: Foreigners likened to fish that need to be caught to spur recovery

[mikebell]

22 hours ago, NanLaew said:

How doth one bait one's hook. Let me count the ways.

 

Arbitrary alcohol bans.

 

Expensive alcohol (when you can get it).

 

Shoddy infrastructure.

 

Dirty beaches.

 

Traffic gridlock.

 

Filthy air.

 

Dual pricing.

 

Proof of income for visas and extensions.

 

Local mafia taxi operators.

 

Etc., etc..

 

 

+ Police. Government corruption. Revolting peasants. Wild dogs. Poor English skills.  Xenophobia as exemplified by Anutin. Strong baht which makes many things more expensive than Europe. Unregulated noise. Guns. Archaic property owning laws.

The above lists would not appeal to most rich tourists

[somtumwrong]

20 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

A funny thread.
 

A bunch of people who have been caught hook, line and sinker and not only visited Thailand, but completely uprooted their lives and moved here permanently by choice, complaining that Thailand isn’t good enough to attract people for a holiday. 

 

????
 

I am a high class elite and absolutely love Thailand. If there was somewhere better I would move.

"Me, too", and I swallowed the hook, line, sinker, the whole fishing rod but seriously, if I were single, the ONLY attraction would be the temp.. the women. They are the easiest thing on this planet and some of them are real gems, too. I don't know if there is any other place on this planet where having a gf, wife or mia noi is so easy as it's here. Especially once you "learn their culture", (forget logic, life based on their culture/thinking/logic only as they learn your culture fast but forget it the next morning.)

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

A funny thread.
 

A bunch of people who have been caught hook, line and sinker and not only visited Thailand, but completely uprooted their lives and moved here permanently by choice, complaining that Thailand isn’t good enough to attract people for a holiday. 

 

????
 

I am a high class elite and absolutely love Thailand. If there was somewhere better I would move.

If a certain poster actually lived in LOS they would understand that Thailand on holiday is not the same as Thailand where one lives, IMO.

 

[mtls2005]

As long as they don't put tourists to work on fishing boats, or in fish processing plants, all should be well.

 

 

 

 

[tinca tinca]

has this guy ever BEEN fishing......?????

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, mikebell said:

+ Police. Government corruption. Revolting peasants. Wild dogs. Poor English skills.  Xenophobia as exemplified by Anutin. Strong baht which makes many things more expensive than Europe. Unregulated noise. Guns. Archaic property owning laws.

The above lists would not appeal to most rich tourists

Revolting peasants.

Feel superior? I always found the "peasants" to be friendly. I liked them more than the hi so self entitled, self important people.

 

Poor English skills.

How many people in your country speak Thai?

 

Strong baht which makes many things more expensive than Europe.

Blame European countries for having bad economies and money that is not worth much.

 

Guns.

I never had a problem with guns in all the years I was in Thailand. Perhaps some people live in the wrong places.

 

Archaic property owning laws.

Oh, someone that would like Thailand to be bought by foreigners and Thais to be unable to afford to rent. Far as I'm concerned they are doing the right thing by preventing overseas "investors" for buying land.

 

The above lists would not appeal to most rich tourists

IMO rich tourists can deleted go to Dubai or or some other place that cares about rich people. Thailand is just fine without them, IMO.

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, kaneko86 said:

Why are this "experts" always focusing on big spenders?

Thailand actually needs all kind of tourists, even the backpackers are important.

They go to low price guesthouses and eat street food giving a job and income to many lower end thaid that own this cheap food stalls, restaurant and guesthouses.

Big spenders usually go to expensive hotels and restaurants which are mostly owned by foreign chains and not thais.

Why are this "experts" always focusing on big spenders?

 

IMO because the "experts" don't get rich off low level tourists, and money is apparently all they care about.

[transam]

22 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Explains why they use the word "lure" in most press releases.

 

That and "schemes", of course.

 

Haven't seen "angling" yet.

 

 

 

 

There are a few of meanings for the word "Gaff", one is to impale a floundering fish, the other is stupid talk, both apply to this topic.....????

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Hayduke said:

 

Standard Thai operating procedure....

 

No thought is given to a stable and proper business plan...and no thought is given to honestly providing a quality product for a fair price.....

 

It's all about trickery, guile, deception, fraud, and 'slight-of-hand' to cheat visitors/customers out of money.

 

Welcome to Thailand.

 

 

Had a bad experience then?

 

I visited more times than I can remember and loved the place. One has to be aware of scams though. I got scammed far worse in Sri Lanka. I'll never go there again. Disliked everything about the place. Spent my entire holiday wishing I'd gone to Thailand instead. Same with Penang, except I didn't get scammed, except by the hotel.

[mtls2005]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

There are a few of meanings for the word "Gaff", one is to impale a floundering fish, the other is stupid talk, both apply to this topic.....????

 

As long as they don't resort to spear fishing to "land" tourists we're good to go.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Artisi said:

They need a massive wake-up call that should have been delivered years back, but as usual it will be ignored as is most things that blow-up in their faces - - - it's never their fault, it's always someone else's fault, even when it's blatantly obvious who is to blame.....

 

Singapore became the perfect tourist destination, but tourists don't like sterile, fun devoid places so they stopped going.

Despite all its failings, Thailand is my winner.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

23 hours ago, Cali farong said:

Why would

rich tourists be attracted to lousy streets

A nearby street has had a dead dog next to the sidewalk for over a week. The smell's been getting worse and can be smelled a block away. Truly Amazing Thailand, worthy of only the most premium tourists.

[somtumwrong]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Revolting peasants.

Feel superior? I always found the "peasants" to be friendly. I liked them more than the hi so self entitled, self important people.

 

Poor English skills.

How many people in your country speak Thai?

 

Strong baht which makes many things more expensive than Europe.

Blame European countries for having bad economies and money that is not worth much.

 

Guns.

I never had a problem with guns in all the years I was in Thailand. Perhaps some people live in the wrong places.

 

Archaic property owning laws.

Oh, someone that would like Thailand to be bought by foreigners and Thais to be unable to afford to rent. Far as I'm concerned they are doing the right thing by preventing overseas "investors" for buying land.

 

The above lists would not appeal to most rich tourists

IMO rich tourists can deleted go to Dubai or or some other place that cares about rich people. Thailand is just fine without them, IMO.

 

 

 

 

"How many people in your country speak Thai?" => Well um Thai is not a world language, like English is. English is THE tourist language, so I think your comparison is way off.

"Archaic property laws" => I agree, our own countries should enforce that as well, why sell off your land to foreigners..

"IMO rich tourists.. " => I would emphasize the IMO part, because the large debate and goal within Thailand is to move away from backpacker & tour buses to something more sustainable. They are actually enforcing the "IOO poor tourists can (deleted) go to their own countries or some place that they can afford. Thailand is just fine without then, IOO"

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, DavisH said:

First world tourists (especially the well heeled) need first class facilities. How about letting foreigners purchase a maximum of one house in certain areas. How about improving pollution and public transport, and eliminating the scammers. There's a lot to do even before entertaining the idea. 

Thailand has many faults but allowing rich foreigners to buy land is NOT one of them. Speaking as living in a country that does let rich foreigners buy property.

 

If I were actually rich I'd never visit Thailand, but as a mid level person I loved it.

[somtumwrong]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Singapore became the perfect tourist destination, but tourists don't like sterile, fun devoid places so they stopped going.

Despite all its failings, Thailand is my winner.

I kind of agree. Loved to go to Singapore in the early 2000s. It had a .. how you descibe, a feeling, was a great place to go to and enjoy an exotic city. But nowadays Singapore is sterile, it's like a Chinese city. Sterile, boring, I still love Sentosa Island, but the feeling is gone. Since I was there in the early 2000's, the population has increased a lot. Thailand has much more 'feeling' even in Bangkok.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, somtumwrong said:

"IMO rich tourists.. " => I would emphasize the IMO part, because the large debate and goal within Thailand is to move away from backpacker & tour buses to something more sustainable. They are actually enforcing the "IOO poor tourists can (deleted) go to their own countries or some place that they can afford. Thailand is just fine without then, IOO"

Not rich tourists have loyalty to places they like. The rich tend, IMO, to go where it's fashionable. I prefer loyalty to money that is quickly spent and seen no more

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, somtumwrong said:

I kind of agree. Loved to go to Singapore in the early 2000s. It had a .. how you descibe, a feeling, was a great place to go to and enjoy an exotic city. But nowadays Singapore is sterile, it's like a Chinese city. Sterile, boring, I still love Sentosa Island, but the feeling is gone. Since I was there in the early 2000's, the population has increased a lot. Thailand has much more 'feeling' even in Bangkok.

Thailand has much more 'feeling' even in Bangkok.

 

It's called sanuk. Sanuk is something Singapore does not have IMO.

 

BTW Singapore was even better in the 70s, but they decided to go upmarket and threw fun out the window.

[thaibeachlovers]

IMO the "investors" took the pearl that was Thailand in the 90s, and tried to exploit it by appealing to rich people that would probably never bother ( if they did any research ) visiting, but only succeeding in destroying the very thing that made farangs love the place.

Now they have neither rich, nor poor farang tourists.

 

Karma?

[Burma Bill]

So now "fishy" farangs!!!

[americanfarang]

Well, if Thailand wants me to be a fish and to catch me, they will have to eliminate the ridiculous entry requirements.  Until that time, I am off to Costa Rica January 16-26, where they only require covid insurance and January 30-February 9 to Colombia, where they don't require anything.  Sorry Thailand, but this fish, me, will go spend my thousands of USD$ where I am welcomed.  Good luck on catching your "fish".  555

[worgeordie]

Lure them ,Land them and gut them,a view on tourism.

regards Worgeordie

[somtumwrong]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not rich tourists have loyalty to places they like. The rich tend, IMO, to go where it's fashionable. I prefer loyalty to money that is quickly spent and seen no more

Depends on what you mean with 'rich' => the super rich or the upper middle class / very wealthy. The very wealthy / upper middle class are to my experience also loyal and like to revisit, but they also go to other places. My "CEO friends" still think to come to Thailand some day, but currently they are rather drawn to Spain where they feel more safe. I think this is the target group Thailand is looking for, flying directly to Phuket, going to a 5 star resort for 2-3 weeks, then back home. "Big spenders" in terms of dinner, spa etc, but not buying much (who cares to buy anything in Thailand anymore as a tourist when you have Amazon.com/de/uk/se etc where you can buy the same "unique" stuff for much less money.)

 

Then there are the 'ordinary' people ( I guess farang middle class, lower middle class) who come here and marry, buy a condo, move their books to Thailand. In terms of money spent, they are a better target group but unfortunately Thailand does NOT want to live them here permanently. They just want to milk the cow and fail to see the benefit of permanent residents vs wealthy tourists.

 

For example, I spend 500K+ on my kids school per year, plus a lot of money on condo, car etc but they fail to count such money and only look at tourist income. However, these are two different things that we want to mentally combine as we reflect it to our visas and immigration criteria. Learning from my peer group, I never move my assets to Thailand as you only should move to Thailand what you are prepared to lose some day.

 

Anyway, a lot of babble on many topics from my part.

[connda]

9 hours ago, kaneko86 said:

Why are this "experts" always focusing on big spenders?

Thailand actually needs all kind of tourists, even the backpackers are important.

They go to low price guesthouses and eat street food giving a job and income to many lower end thaid that own this cheap food stalls, restaurant and guesthouses.

Big spenders usually go to expensive hotels and restaurants which are mostly owned by foreign chains and not thais.

It really is cultural in so many ways. 
The emphasis on exclusively catering to wealthy, upper-class foreigners isn't anything new.  Up until March of this year it simply was in the noise as foreign tourists from all economic levels were allowed into the country.  And anyone who has taken university level economic courses would understand that you maximize revenue by catering to tourist from across the economic spectrum.

However, culturally Thais are elitists.  Look at their Lakhon and soap operas on TV and you can easily see it.  The wealthy and the elite are revered.  Everyone else are subservient commoners of low class.  This is especially evident in the Thai period pieces on TV which idolizes Thai feudalism where the dirty, ignorant slave and peasant class revere and adore their Thai masters.
That mindset hasn't changed much in the 21st century.  The Thai upper-crust which insulates itself from the commoners expects their adoration and respect based solely on their own higher social standing.  Social stratification and class separation runs really, really deep here.
So by extension, it should not be of any surprise when the rulers of Thailand and the wealthy power elites who insinuate themselves into Thai politics and lawmaking make pronouncements that they seek to encourage only wealthy, high-class, socially elite foreigners to come to Thailand to work and play, while at the same time creating rules and regulations that essentially locks out everyone else including retirees who have made an significant economic presence in Thailand.

"Commoners! Who needs them? Bring us the wealthy!"

When they use this fishing analogy in their mind's eye I'm pretty sure they're hoping to snag whales while throwing the minnows and bottom-fish back over the gunnels.
But in their hubris these elites fail to perceive that it's exactly that class of foreigners who they want to jettison and restrict who were bringing in that "Billion baht a year" of revenue on the now defunct Khaosan Road. 

Are the wealthy, elite-class of foreigners flying in on their Gulfstream jets and heading to Khaosan Road to bring it back to it's glory days.
No.  Why? 
Because virtually all of the revenue generated in normal Thai tourism havens in generated by normal, average people.  Not the obscenely wealthy.

"Invest 10 million baht and we give you work permit!!!"

Why?  You can take the equivalent of 3 million baht and buy a Passport and citizenship in other countries around the world including other topical countries.

It will be that elite hubris that will destroy the country.  It will destroy the economic lives of Thai citizenry who are not part of the elite machine and whose businesses and lives have been crushed.  And when neo-feudalism becomes the new norm, those who can remember the past will not be happy.  Then good luck keeping the country and its population above the water-line without the liberal use of an iron rod and guns.

But in the meantime: "They wealthy foreigners will save Thailand."
No they won't.

[somtumwrong]

4 minutes ago, connda said:

"Invest 10 million baht and we give you work permit!!!"

Why?  You can take the equivalent of 3 million baht and buy a Passport and citizenship in other countries around the world including other topical countries.

It will be that elite hubris that will destroy the country.  It will destroy the economic lives of Thai citizenry who are not part of the elite machine and whose businesses and lives have been crushed.  And when neo-feudalism becomes the new norm, those who can remember the past will not be happy.  Then good luck keeping the country and its population above the water-line without the liberal use of an iron rod and guns.

But in the meantime: "They wealthy foreigners will save Thailand."
No they won't.

Good post.

 

1) INVEST 10 MILLION BAHT TO GET A WORK PERMIT

To be honest, if you have 10 MB and it does not get you into dire straits to invest all that in Thailand, why do you need a work permit? I can easily invest 10 MB, but why? For a work permit? Why do I want to work in Thailand as I would earn much more in another country, e.g. Singapore. I dont even want a job here. Then there will be conditions like "You cannot sell or you lose your visa." Um yeah, oh I was so dumb to fall into that, sure. A much easier option is just to get Thailand Elite for 20 years with 1 MB.

 

2) Wealthy foreigners will save Thailand

I'm currently on my second ASQ round in a nice hotel. But I want a bottle of 7 up. "No sir, we cannot deliver from 7/11, but you can buy from our menu, it's -30% off!" Oh well, the price is then minus 30% plus service charge 10% and +7 % sales tax. A 105 baht bottle of 7 up. While none of us have trouble paying for that, it's almost an insult to charge that amount from someone locked in your ASQ hotel. I'll never buy that 7 up bottle , but what I think the Thais don't understand is that this kind of issues in a more meaningful context (double pricing, just wanting 'wealthy' tourists to arrive to be ripped off) take away the goodwill. Nobody wants to get cheated and misused. It's far more important than to get that silly bottle.

[tonray]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:26 AM, herfiehandbag said:

If we continue with these fishing analogies, the fishing grounds have been overfished, the stocks are gone. The fishing fleet is tied up, derelict and unseaworthy.

But there seemed to always be plenty of 'seamen' oozing down walking streets.

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Singapore became the perfect tourist destination, but tourists don't like sterile, fun devoid places so they stopped going.

Despite all its failings, Thailand is my winner.

No argument on that. 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, somtumwrong said:

Depends on what you mean with 'rich' => the super rich or the upper middle class / very wealthy. The very wealthy / upper middle class are to my experience also loyal and like to revisit, but they also go to other places. My "CEO friends" still think to come to Thailand some day, but currently they are rather drawn to Spain where they feel more safe. I think this is the target group Thailand is looking for, flying directly to Phuket, going to a 5 star resort for 2-3 weeks, then back home. "Big spenders" in terms of dinner, spa etc, but not buying much (who cares to buy anything in Thailand anymore as a tourist when you have Amazon.com/de/uk/se etc where you can buy the same "unique" stuff for much less money.)

 

Then there are the 'ordinary' people ( I guess farang middle class, lower middle class) who come here and marry, buy a condo, move their books to Thailand. In terms of money spent, they are a better target group but unfortunately Thailand does NOT want to live them here permanently. They just want to milk the cow and fail to see the benefit of permanent residents vs wealthy tourists.

 

For example, I spend 500K+ on my kids school per year, plus a lot of money on condo, car etc but they fail to count such money and only look at tourist income. However, these are two different things that we want to mentally combine as we reflect it to our visas and immigration criteria. Learning from my peer group, I never move my assets to Thailand as you only should move to Thailand what you are prepared to lose some day.

 

Anyway, a lot of babble on many topics from my part.

I mean the super rich that holiday in the Maldives or Dubai.

 

 Farangs that marry don't as a rule live in 5* hotels so the super rich Thais don't get any benefit from them. Schools are not giving the usual suspects profit.

They don't normally dine in expensive restaurants either.

IMO the people that run LOS don't care about farangs that marry Thai women and live in LOS as they don't get to milk that cow,

Edited December 5, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[ChaiyaTH]

What is quite funny about all this, is that they cry now and blame COVID, but were on track <deleted> up all the big fishes in the sea visa wise.

[mikebell]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Revolting peasants.

Feel superior? I always found the "peasants" to be friendly. I liked them more than the hi so self entitled, self important people.

 

Poor English skills.

How many people in your country speak Thai?

 

Strong baht which makes many things more expensive than Europe.

Blame European countries for having bad economies and money that is not worth much.

 

Guns.

I never had a problem with guns in all the years I was in Thailand. Perhaps some people live in the wrong places.

 

Archaic property owning laws.

Oh, someone that would like Thailand to be bought by foreigners and Thais to be unable to afford to rent. Far as I'm concerned they are doing the right thing by preventing overseas "investors" for buying land.

 

The above lists would not appeal to most rich tourists

IMO rich tourists can deleted go to Dubai or or some other place that cares about rich people. Thailand is just fine without them, IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry you misunderstood the term  'revolting peasants' - it is a pun; I have much sympathy for the students in revolt against the big-wigs.

Very few people in my country speak anything other than English as it is the Lingua Franca (particularly of the internet.)  Because my country is not 20% dependent on tourism where a common language is sought by Russians/Europeans and Thais.

Thailand is being bought by foreigners - Chinese.  If a foreigner was allowed to 100% own his own home Thailand would benefit instead of the shyster lawyers, leechlike auditors and xenophobic courts.

'some people live in the wrong places.' I do - Thailand - where you can get shot for owning a noisy dog or sounding your car horn.

'The above lists would not appeal to most rich tourists' - the debate is about Thailand's ludicrous plans to attract rich tourists who will certainly NOT come to Thailand with all the above faults.

'Strong baht which makes many things more expensive than Europe.'  I agree but these countries are not bleating about the costs of exporting but choosing alternative markets to buy from other than expensive Thai products. Much more could be done about the strong baht but the ultra-rich run this country & it suits them to buy cheap $$$ off shore ready for when the revolution comes and they have to flee (to Dubai.)

I do enjoy a good debate.

[flightcrew]

Currently us fishes have no choice but to jump through all the hurdles, just for the opportunity of staying at a very expensive ASQ hotel for two weeks before we can even start our holiday.

I think most fishes would prefer to go elsewhere. 

Please dream on.