Britain in 'final throw of the dice' as EU trade talks set to restart

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Would it be fair to say that Boris Johnsons approval started to fall around the time that the covid 19 kicked in, if so wouldn't it not follow that his approval rating is more down to the pandemic rather than his performance with Brexit.

Your chart shows a gradual rise in popularity when it peaked at a staggering 65% untill April when it suddenly fell.

 

 

41 minutes ago, vogie said:

It matters not one jot about "polls", can they be trusted, of course not,

 

Now you only have to decide which excuse you want to use, the “the poll numbers are because of Covid” excuse or the “poll numbers cannot be trusted excuse”. 

 

41 minutes ago, vogie said:

the only factual evidence we have is the 2016 EU referendum and we voted to leave, that is the fact

 

The fact that someone quoted a recent poll seems to suggest that he is interested about how the 2020-electorate thinks now, not how the 2016-electorate thought in 2016. 

 

41 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

we may as well have another poll of 'should we have entered WW2 in 1939', it is a pointless exercise.

As pointless as quoting a 2016 opinion poll as you just did (aka the referendum). 

 

41 minutes ago, vogie said:

the voters are a little worried about still being tied into the EU

 

That’s according to the polls that are not reliable, or according to the polls that are reliable but affected by Covid, or according to the 2016 poll? (or just your very own made up claim?)

 

 

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

So bitter ????.

 

Good luck getting the Independence you crave as one of the bottom 3 countries in the EU ????. The mighty Skootlund battling Greece for handouts from the EU like two bums fighting for whisky in the underpass lol.

 

Really?

Well we dont want to be a burden so best to let us go on our way eh?

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

 

Now you only have to decide which excuse you want to use, the “the poll numbers are because of Covid” excuse or the “poll numbers cannot be trusted excuse”. 

 

 

The fact that someone quoted a recent poll seems to suggest that he is interested about how the 2020-electorate thinks now, not how the 2016-electorate thought in 2016. 

 

As pointless as quoting a 2016 opinion poll as you just did (aka the referendum). 

 

 

That’s according to the polls that are not reliable, or according to the polls that are reliable but affected by Covid, or according to the 2016 poll? (or just your very own made up claim?)

 

 

Now you only have to decide which excuse you want to use, the “the poll numbers are because of Covid” excuse or the “poll numbers cannot be trusted excuse”. 

I did not bring this poll into the conversation but if someone wants to introduce it, that is up to them and should be prepared to be questioned on it, whether I believe it not is not important.

 

As pointless as quoting a 2016 opinion poll as you just did (aka the referendum). 

The 2016 referendum was not pointless nor is pointless bringing into play as that is what we are working to today.

[Henryford]

The dice must be worn out after rolling for 4 and a half years. Pointless as Doris will just give in on 31.12.20.

[luckyluke]

31 minutes ago, vogie said:

A good indication of knowing how the country feels is by elections

 

So we will have to wait till 2024.

 

In the meantime Brexit being a good or bad thing for the Britons will only be speculations.

 

I doubt this will be accepted as such.

 

Polls, experiences from some, references, opinions... will still be categorize as truth,

or not,

depending on the personal belief/approach of the particular individual.

 

Pretty sure that we will read here from some, for instance, that the results from polls are credible but others untrustworthy.

 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

So we will have to wait till 2024.

 

In the meantime Brexit being a good or bad thing for the Britons will only be speculations.

 

I doubt this will be accepted as such.

 

Polls, experiences from some, references, opinions... will still be categorize as truth,

or not,

depending on the personal belief/approach of the particular individual.

 

Pretty sure that we will read here from some, for instance, that the results from polls are credible but others untrustworthy.

 

In the meantime Brexit being a good or bad thing for the Britons will only be speculations.

Let us not forget that the country voted to leave the EU and I know that the EU is not very conversant with the word democracy, but in the UK it is still alive and kicking, it is with 52% of the voters that decided to vote in the referendum anyway.

Polls are for losers and to give people a little hope when infact there is none, didn't the EU poll predict a remain win.

 

[robblok]

 

 

1 hour ago, transam said:

You don't like British folk it seems, did you get caught smoking a spliff there..?......????

No problem with the Brits, as i told you before. But obviously you are a bit old and forget that all the time. I have a problem with nationalistic Brexiteers not Brits. 

 

I been in the UK once, and will never return there again. Its like the Netherlands but worse (weather wise). Nothing that interests me over there. Give me the tropical climate. 

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

The U.K. GAVE them the right to fish our waters - how many times does this need to be said before it sinks in ?  
 

Why are fish so important to Brexiteers ? It’s laughable. 
 

Brexit will cost 2% of GDP - fish contribute around 0.01% of GDP - guess which one the Brexiteers are agitated about ????????????

No use to argue with Brexiteers.

 

They only believe it, when their "British" fish cannot be exported to the EU, together with nearly all their agricultural products seen hygienic and veterinarian rules of the EU, they UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE to follow ( white the rest of the world knows: when you want to sell inside any country, you have to do it under the rules of that country). FSA certificates no longer recognized, BRC exchanged for IFS, no info anymore from EFSA and RASFF, no CE certificates anymore... 

Then the next steps: all exports under WTO-import duties, so bye bye British make + car products, financial services ONLY under EU law = ECB. And the last blow: Schengen visa + international insurances and driver licence when British want to travel inside the EU.

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

In the meantime Brexit being a good or bad thing for the Britons will only be speculations.

Let us not forget that the country voted to leave the EU and I know that the EU is not very conversant with the word democracy, but in the UK it is still alive and kicking, it is with 52% of the voters that decided to vote in the referendum anyway.

Polls are for losers and to give people a little hope when infact there is none, didn't the EU poll predict a remain win.

 

 

Don't understand your reaction,

 

there is no doubt at all about the result of the Brexit referendum,

nobody however knows if it will be a good or bad thing for the Britons,

only time will tell,

in the meantime we have all kind of speculations ( positive & negative ).

 

You are of course entitled to claim that the E.U. is not very conversant with the word democracy;

I categorize this as a personal perception.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

I just cannot understand why you are such an advocate for Scottish Nationalism?

Because remainers and EU mafia supporters have a crystal ball. ????

[GrandPapillon]

8 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Thank goodness this charade will soon be over. 

You think? it's going to be the next game for UK politics for the next 30 years

 

blaming each other for the collapse of the UK, and blaming everyone except themselves

 

the EU will still be UK politicians favorite topics for the coming decades ????

[GrandPapillon]

I can't wait for Jan 1, and see the UK collapse with their WTO deal ????

[dunroaming]

Britain is on the back foot over Covid, so is the EU and pretty much the rest of the world as well.   This fact and also the fact that Biden is now going to be POTUS should have a bearing on the last ditch attempt to cut a deal.  The TV contributors are still in good voice with both sides not prepared to give any quarter.  

 

I think there is little doubt that there will be a deal agreed in the end and also that it will be very far from what the Brexit campaign promised at the time.  It has been said many times here and elsewhere that there will be no winners when it comes to Brexit, although there are still some those who cling on to the belief about so called sovereignty being restored.  Even though they have no idea what that actually means.

 

And for the record, I don't think there is any point putting any store in polls at any time.  

[Thingamabob]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

I can't wait for Jan 1, and see the UK collapse with their WTO deal ????

Why do you want the UK to collapse ?

[Kwasaki]

17 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Why do you want the UK to collapse ?

Because his anti UK and belongs to the EU mafia, you leave the mafia your put on a hit list.

[Surelynot]

6 hours ago, Proboscis said:

11 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Do not give our fisheries away nor become a legal client of the EU. Stay strong, Boris!

Boris will only ever do what is best for Boris....he is totally unprincipled, which helps greatly when you are a Tory.

[SteveB2]

10 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

The U.K. GAVE them the right to fish our waters - how many times does this need to be said before it sinks in ?  
 

Why are fish so important to Brexiteers ? It’s laughable. 
 

Brexit will cost 2% of GDP - fish contribute around 0.01% of GDP - guess which one the Brexiteers are agitated about ????????????

 

Argueing economics against sovereignty and independence... Yer right. Good luck with defending that position with any patriot.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, SteveB2 said:

 

Argueing economics against sovereignty and independence... Yer right. Good luck with defending that position with any patriot.

In the event of no deal the status quo remains re: fishing.....can't see wel'ard Brexiteers being happy with that.

[andyg75]

All these non Brits that come on here wishing to see the UK go broke or split up must be so jealous of us ,I can’t understand it. How bitter can you get,you need to get a life

 

 

 

[vinny41]

52 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

In the event of no deal the status quo remains re: fishing.....can't see wel'ard Brexiteers being happy with that.

Prepare your fisheries business for changes from 1 January 2021

Access to UK waters

Non-UK vessels, including EU or EEA registered vessels, will not be permitted to fish in UK waters, unless there is an access agreement and the vessels have the appropriate licence.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-your-fisheries-business-for-changes-from-1-january-2021

[nabbie]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

I just cannot understand why you are such an advocate for Scottish Nationalism?

 Scotland's real intention is to join EU. 

[Surelynot]

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

unless there is an access agreement and the vessels have the appropriate licence.

Mmmmm........does the explicitly exclude the current fishing quotas......will they count as an agreement?

[Hi from France]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Prepare your fisheries business for changes from 1 January 2021

Access to UK waters

Non-UK vessels, including EU or EEA registered vessels, will not be permitted to fish in UK waters, unless there is an access agreement and the vessels have the appropriate licence.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-your-fisheries-business-for-changes-from-1-january-2021

@vinny41by the way, do you know what the EU is offering in exchange for fishing in UK (Scottish mainly) waters? 

[Surelynot]

18 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Prepare your fisheries business for changes from 1 January 2021

Access to UK waters

Non-UK vessels, including EU or EEA registered vessels, will not be permitted to fish in UK waters, unless there is an access agreement and the vessels have the appropriate licence.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-your-fisheries-business-for-changes-from-1-january-2021

A no deal outcome does little to address the concerns that led many fishers and coastal communities to vote for Brexit in the first place and, if anything, it could make things worse.

By Dr Christopher Huggins, University of Suffolk, and Drs Arno van der Zwet, John Connolly and Craig McAngus, University of the West of Scotland.

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

@vinny41by the way, do you know what the EU is offering in exchange for fishing in UK (Scottish mainly) waters? 

It was recently reported that the EU would allow the UK to retain between 15-18% of their fish stock if the UK agreed to allow the EU 10 year  unfettered access to the UK fishing grounds

[Rookiescot]

Time for the bold Brexiteers to finally pull the pin.

Capitulate to the EU's conditions or leave with no deal and damage the UK economy.

Still you knew what you were voting for right?

[Phulublub]

32 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Prepare your fisheries business for changes from 1 January 2021

Access to UK waters

Non-UK vessels, including EU or EEA registered vessels, will not be permitted to fish in UK waters, unless there is an access agreement and the vessels have the appropriate licence.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-your-fisheries-business-for-changes-from-1-january-2021

Even if there IS an access agreement just look at all that shiny new red tape that trawlers will have to go through - none of which was needed before.  A very small example of the mountains of the waste we have enjoyed doing without whule in the EU.

 

But still, you all knew what you were voting for.

 

PH

 

PH

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

A no deal outcome does little to address the concerns that led many fishers and coastal communities to vote for Brexit in the first place and, if anything, it could make things worse.

By Dr Christopher Huggins, University of Suffolk, and Drs Arno van der Zwet, John Connolly and Craig McAngus, University of the West of Scotland.

Here the link that you forgot to post

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-does-a-no-deal-brexit-look-like-for-fishing/

 

And a different group has a different view

Why ‘no deal’ is a good deal for the UK fishing industry

https://briefingsforbritain.co.uk/why-no-deal-is-a-good-deal-for-the-uk-fishing-industry/

 

Norway and Faroe Islands

The UK government has signed continuity agreements with Norway (on 30 September) and with Faroe Islands (on 15 October) to allow UK fishermen to continue to access and catch fishing quotas in Norwegian and Faroese waters from 1 January 2021.

 

My understanding is Norwegian and  Faroese fishing boats will still have access to Uk waters after January 2021 regardless of deal or no deal

 

[candide]

4 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

You think? it's going to be the next game for UK politics for the next 30 years

 

blaming each other for the collapse of the UK, and blaming everyone except themselves

 

the EU will still be UK politicians favorite topics for the coming decades ????

Right! Blaming others is the essence of Brexit. I can already anticipate what will happen.

When things go wrong:

- in case of no-deal it will be because the EU refused to give  "fair deal" and that 's why there was no deal

-in case of a deal, they will blame it on the EU too, I.e. too many rules, etc....

They will find a way to put the blame on remainers, too.

[Susco]

22 minutes ago, candide said:

Right! Blaming others is the essence of Brexit. I can already anticipate what will happen.

When things go wrong:

- in case of no-deal it will be because the EU refused to give  "fair deal" and that 's why there was no deal

-in case of a deal, they will blame it on the EU too, I.e. too many rules, etc....

They will find a way to put the blame on remainers, too.

 

Boris is shouting from the roofs ever since he came in charge, and probably years before that already, that he want to exit without a deal.

 

Why is he still negotiating?