Worrying

[transam]

Went to a friends house to work on his PC, I noticed that all the wall sockets were 2 pin. I looked in the kitchen to see if there was anything to be worried about. There was an all steel convector oven on the work top, I checked it out, it had a 3 pin plug pushed into a 2 pin adaptor because there were no 3 pin sockets, no earth.

 

I pointed out the hazardous situation if there was a fault. I told him I could drill a hole through the back of the socket and run an earth wire down the outside wall and bash an earth rod into the ground. (I do these jobs for fun, something to do, no charge). He said..

"Well, its been OK for 14 years so...".......

At least I have told him the risk, if someone gets fried then........  ????

[sungod]

49 minutes ago, transam said:

(I do these jobs for fun, something to do, no charge).

 

I'll PM you, got quite a list.

[Crossy]

You can lead a horse to water ...

 

[ThaIrish Sean]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

You can lead a horse to water ...

 

Don't mix electricity and water ????

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

On 1/9/2021 at 5:58 AM, transam said:

(I do these jobs for fun, something to do, no charge)

If that was an explanation for not working, it was very bad. It does not matter if you do it for free, it´s still work, and at the top you are stealing potential work from a Thai.

Othervise, just carry on soldier. ????

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Dagfinnur Traustason said:

If that was an explanation for not working, it was very bad. It does not matter if you do it for free, it´s still work, and at the top you are stealing potential work from a Thai.

Othervise, just carry on soldier. ????

Indeed I will, after about 3 electric shocks at my place build, via a LOS electrician, I try to take care of me and my friends....????

[KhunBENQ]

On 1/9/2021 at 11:58 AM, transam said:

I checked it out, it had a 3 pin plug pushed into a 2 pin adaptor because there were no 3 pin sockets, no earth.

The norm in the majority of older houses up here.

We have a mix of 2 pin and real earth on the outside shack (a washing machine plus water pump plus deep well pump).

All added with RCBO for the shack and wet rooms.

 

Welcome to the real Thailand. Just look at all the extensions with 2 pin plug and 3 "hole" sockets. Protective is either empty or unconnected contacts (for mechanical reason).

These sold are sold everywhere!

 

Got a huge new fridge/freezer. Expected it to have a 3 pin plug. Nope!

[transam]

2 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

The norm in the majority of older houses up here.

We have a mix of 2 pin and real earth on the outside shack (a washing machine plus water pump plus deep well pump).

All added with RCBO for the shack and wet rooms.

 

Welcome to the real Thailand. Just look at all the extensions with 2 pin plug and 3 "hole" sockets. Protective is either empty or unconnected contacts (for mechanical reason).

These sold are sold everywhere!

 

Got a huge new fridge/freezer. Expected it to have a 3 pin plug. Nope!

The house in question was built by the bloke, his design, so I was "shocked" that a guy older than me would not have installed earthed stuff, after all, back home 3 pin sockets were around a zillion years back, even the old round pin plugs had earth..

[KhunBENQ]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

The house in question was built by the bloke, his design, so I was "shocked" that a guy older than me would not have installed earthed stuff, after all, back home 3 pin sockets were around a zillion years back, even the old round pin plugs had earth..

I see. Of course if I at the time had interest in the house that we live in now, I would have interfered (now not having funds and spirit to build a new one).

And even our (now defunct) shop-house built about 2005 or so has 3 pin (earth rod).

As far as I know its now absolutely the norm even for private houses to have proper earth.

Edited January 12, 2021 by KhunBENQ

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

55 minutes ago, transam said:

Indeed I will, after about 3 electric shocks at my place build, via a LOS electrician, I try to take care of me and my friends....????

Was just joking with you. I help people when I can too. I actually do not call it work. I call it therapeutic adjustment after seing too many Thais doing the work. ????

[Crossy]

24 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

As far as I know its now absolutely the norm even for private houses to have proper earth.

 

It's certainly supposed to be.

But even now I've been in new builds that have only 2-pin outlets and no RCD/RCBO.

[Susco]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

It's certainly supposed to be.

But even now I've been in new builds that have only 2-pin outlets and no RCD/RCBO.

 

 

Am I correct that if you install a RCD/RCBO, you don't necessarily need earthed electrics to be protected?

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, Susco said:

Am I correct that if you install a RCD/RCBO, you don't necessarily need earthed electrics to be protected?

 

Weellll, a Class-1 appliance must be earthed even with an RCD/RCBO, the RCBO is really secondary protection (like your car airbag).

 

Also, things like desktop PCs (and anything with a switching power supply) will have a mains filter which will leak somewhat in order to do its job, usually resulting in the metalwork being at about 50% mains if it's not earthed, hence the "tingle" from unearthed PCs.

 

Bear in mind that the 30mA trip current was chosen as a happy medium that won't trip too often yet won't kill "most" healthy adults. The young, old, infirm or sick may not survive even if the RCBO operates.

 

[VocalNeal]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

It's certainly supposed to be.

But even now I've been in new builds that have only 2-pin outlets and no RCD/RCBO.

 

My recently purchased house has grounding but it only appears to be connected to the two shower heaters which each have RCD/RCBO. (15mA).

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, Susco said:

 

 

Am I correct that if you install a RCD/RCBO, you don't necessarily need earthed electrics to be protected?

Not really, in a way it’s a little like crumple zones, ABS, seat belts, airbags, and auto obstruction stop systems in a car. They all work for reducing deaths and injuries, the more you have and the more carefully you drive the safer you are. 
 

An RCBO/RDC will prevent some accidental electrical shocks but not all, and as @Crossy has mentioned there’s a tinge that for most is just that but it could cause an accident that might be rather more serious for some, even if the tingle itself isn’t bad the shock certainly could cause a fall.
 

That is just one example, getting even a 30 millisecond mains jolt could be rather more interesting specially if you are up a ladder for instance.

[VocalNeal]

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is just one example, getting even a 30 millisecond mains jolt could be rather more interesting specially if you are up a ladder for instance.

 

On an electric fence the duration is about 100 microseconds and that is enough to make one think.

[Susco]

22 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

That is just one example, getting even a 30 millisecond mains jolt could be rather more interesting specially if you are up a ladder for instance.

 

So note to self, don't use a ladder when working electrics, if you don't have earthed electrics.

 

Joking aside, I have earthed electrics, and RCBO's.

 

Not so long ago I was performing some maintenance on a water pump, which is in an earthed socket, has an RCBO on the main and sub circuit, and when I touched an uninsulated wire I got a jolt.

 

I didn't count how many milliseconds it was, and the RCBO tripped, but I still got the jolt.

 

Additional info, the pump house has it's own earth rod right next to the pump house.

 

There is another rod right next to the main pump house where the sub panel with the RCBO is, and 2 rods at the house where the main breaker box with the main RCBO is

Edited January 12, 2021 by Susco

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, Susco said:

I didn't count how many milliseconds it was, and the RCBO tripped, but I still got the jolt.

 

This is something many don't understand, an RCD/RCBO won't prevent you from getting a shock if you make direct contact with a live wire, but it will limit the duration of that shock and (hopefully) prevent you from dying.

 

For a metal cased Class-1 appliance the first line of defence is the earthed metal box.