Tourism chiefs call for foreigners vaccinated against COVID-19 to be allowed to enter Thailand

[gafdtomaka366]

4 hours ago, shdmn said:

Yes, you can spend time and money trying to do all that and put your own health at risk or you can just, you know, get vaccinated.  Tough choice. 

* For around 95% of people there's no risk in the virus, not even an issue post recovery. Some, a half maybe or so", even aren't aware that they were sick and have already recovered, with no symptoms that is, let alone a "risk".

 

* Also, will you give everyone a 100% guarantee that there'll be no bad side effects whatsoever, 5-10 years down the road, if everyone gets a shot of a vaccine? Touch choice to guarantee that.

Edited January 13, 2021 by gafdtomaka366

[cdemundo]

11 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Even if vaccinated, you can still have the virus and shed. Asymptomatic.

 

I don't think that is known.

The trials were not intended to test if that was the case or not, they were only intended to test prevention of illness.

So no answer yes or no on the question of if the vaccines prevent transmission of the virus.

[provan69]

I hope it happens, I haven't seen my lady for 13 months

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, provan69 said:

I hope it happens, I haven't seen my lady for 13 months

 

 

If by this you mean you are outside of Thailand and wish to return to see your lady... 

 

You can now return at any time with a Tourist Visa or Visa Exempt (depending on your Nationality).

 

You still have to apply for a Certificate of Entry and undergo quarantine (at your own cost).

 

[richard_smith237]

50 minutes ago, gafdtomaka366 said:

17 hours ago, shdmn said:

You are not as efficient a spreader though, because you are not sick and therefore you are not coughing and sneezing.   

Sick, but asymptomatic person isn't an efficient spreader either then - he's nor coughing, nor sneezzing.

 

I think in effect the vaccine just makes people asymptomatic...  

 

I read that 1 in 5 people who contract Covid-19 are asymptomatic - thus after a the vaccine there are simply more people who are asymptomatic and thus not coughing and sneezing and spreading the vaccine as readily as those who 4 out of 5 who suffer varying degree of symptoms (from mild cold like to severe respiratory symptoms). 

 

Additionally - (I suspect) that when those in the high risk groups within a population are vaccinated Covid-19 takes on the severity cold as far as the general population, politicians and economy is concerned, theoretically the world goes back to normal, albeit with more hand washing, more facebook experts, more amateur statisticians and a society whereby anyone who has a runny nose is encouraged to wear a face-mask. 

 

I suspect to maintain the normal anyone travelling will need a vaccine passport and vaccinations will become a yearly norm as we learn to live with SARS-CoV-2 and the continued fear mongering of those who enjoy informing us of new risks and mutations. 

 

 

 

 

[cdemundo]

7 hours ago, hioctane said:

95% efficacy means if 100 people took the vaccine, 5 still got infected. 

 

Pfizer had 43660 subjects in trial.

Total infections in both placebo and vaccinated group was 170.

There were 162 infections in the placebo group and 8 in the vaccinated group.

If there were 21830 vaccinated subjects, 5% would be 1091 so no, that is not how efficacy is calculated.  

 

Placebo (unvaccinated) group

162/ 21830 x 100,000 = 742 infections per 100,000 people

(multiply by 100,000 and it clarifies as we are not talking about fractional people.)

 

Vaccinated group

8/ 21830 x 100,000 = 37 infections per 100,000 people

 

Difference in infection rates = 742 - 37 = 705  fewer infections per 100,000 people

 

Unvaccinated rate of infection = 742 infections per 100,000 people

Reduction of rate = 705  fewer infections per 100,000 people

 

705/742 x 100% = 95% efficacy rate.

 

 

 

[Don Chance]

There is not enough data.

 

Pfizer had 13 cases in 30,000 people test group (approx.) But they weren't all tested. Maybe the vaccine protects people completely maybe not. We would assume so.

 

Basically all Thai's in contact with tourists need to be vaccinated against covid.  They could limit where farangs can go in Bangkok and to certain tourist areas. Phuket and Samui would be a start. Just vaccinate everyone on those islands. Then tourists could fly directly there and not allowed to leave. It is Thai rip off dream.

 

They could let vaccinated tourists come in without quarantine only if they are coming from a country with very low case counts.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Don Chance

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

There is not enough data.

 

Pfizer had 13 cases in 30,000 people test group (approx.) But they weren't all tested. Maybe the vaccine protects people completely maybe not. We would assume so.

 

Basically all Thai's in contact with tourists need to be vaccinated against covid.  They could limit where farangs can go in Bangkok and to certain tourist areas. Phuket and Samui would be a start. Just vaccinate everyone on those islands. Then tourists could fly directly there and not allowed to leave. It is Thai rip off dream.

 

I can’t see anything like this working in Bangkok. There are too many foreigners / expats already there to limit their movements ? there’s no way to differentiate between tourists and expats. 

 

Your idea could work on Samui and Phuket - if something could be something put in place to allow residents to cross check points, it's all a bit draconian though.

 

 

Quote

They could let vaccinated tourists come in without quarantine only if they are coming from a country with very low case counts.

 

 

Obviously there is no 'suits all' solution - I believe the best option is that once all those in the high risk groups and those over 60 years old are vaccinated things could be allowed to return to normal. 

 

Thus: IMO - the government should be working on plans to get vaccinations out to +60’s and those in high risk groups as quickly as possible.

 

This could also work sooner with your ’travel corridor’ idea of allowing those who are vaccinated quarantine free entry if coming from countries with low cases. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by richard_smith237

[SupermarineS6B]

"I used to be indecisive but now i'm not sure"..............  Test at the airport, quarantine until result, then free to travel if negative, if not, return to sender before the whole lot disappears under the waves !........  But but but but .........  If testing's no good and everyone continues in this "What if"  what if mode, then we might as well all just crawl under the bed and die....    Do i chuck the canons overboard and clear the reef, or do i keep them and lose the lot ?    Simple as that........  Shortly they won't have any money to turn the lights for their meetings......  but but but, what if ?   

[UbonEagle]

Commonsense call of course, that combined with other measures (track and trace app, maybe a test on day 7 etc) brings the risk down to a very low level....a lot lower that letting people stream thru the bush unvaccinated from a neighboring covid (red) hot spot

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, PatOngo said:

What if they prefer badminton???

Actually they prefer gambling, I wonder if quarantine gambling dens would work?

[garyk]

Curious to see if they decide to do that. After 10 years living around Asia I would like to come visit friends. I should be vaccinated by next month. 

[metisdead]

Posts containing unattributed content that was copy and pasted from some sites without a supporting link have been removed:

 

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

 

I don't think that is known.

The trials were not intended to test if that was the case or not, they were only intended to test prevention of illness.

So no answer yes or no on the question of if the vaccines prevent transmission of the virus.

Even after the jabs, you can still shed.  If we can't agree on yes or no, the default would be to err on the side of caution and don't spread misinformation.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/12/956051995/why-you-should-still-wear-a-mask-and-avoid-crowds-after-getting-the-covid-19-vac

"That's not 100%," says Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center and a member of the Food and Drug Administration's vaccine advisory board. "That means one out of every 20 people who get this vaccine could still get moderate to severe infection."

[brianthainess]

21 hours ago, 1fortheroad said:

if they are vaccinated they should be allowed in!

Allowed in ? Why? It is not proved scientifically that being vaccinated prevents one from being a carrier of covid.  

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, skorp13 said:

With so many things closed even the tourists that do come here and spend money have no real reason to come

The women, bars etc? Oh! Wait!! As long a they do not go to Pattaya and just stay in Bangkok. There is no prostitution

in Pattaya.
 

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, Dialemco said:

Forget about international tourism this cannot return before 2022 earliest and then on a much smaller eco friendly scale. Meanwhile the Government should invest in alternative industries 

Yes, like casinos.

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, Timwin said:

Average hotel stay for tourists in Thailand in 2019 was only 9,26 days. Unless the quarantine period is removed, mass tourism in Thailand will not come back. Simple as that. 

Does the unelected "PM" really want mass tourism here? I don't so. It's certainly the impression that I get.

It obviously does not affect him and his generals income stream, otherwise they would be doing things to rectify it.

[pop3]

Mass tourism's the curse of the modern world its destroyed everywhere its taken place I'm happy to see the back of it.

[sirineou]

44 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Allowed in ? Why? It is not proved scientifically that being vaccinated prevents one from being a carrier of covid.  

what you mean. In their pockets? , clothing?  Hair? 

The CDC says :

"All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States have been shown to be highly effective at preventing COVID-19. "

 

"Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a COVID-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19. "

 

" Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a COVID-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html

 

But hey, what does the CGC know about these things. 

 

[NoshowJones]

10 hours ago, D M G said:

Let's argue over common sense. 

Common sense is not a thing Thai people are known for, whether it is politicians, sorry, soldiers, doctors, scientists or whatever.

[cdemundo]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Even after the jabs, you can still shed.

Well, that settles it then.

[TSF]

22 hours ago, kotsak said:

He didn't get the memo ????

 

They keep forgetting that the vaccine is to protect you from getting sick, not to stop the spread.

That's like saying a tetanus vaccination is no good because it can't protect you from standing on a rusty nail. Yes, a covid vaccinated person can still have the virus enter their body but the immune system quickly neutralizes the infected cells and stops the virus from multiplying and spreading. So the chain of infection gets broken.  

[cdemundo]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Even after the jabs, you can still shed.

From the Wall Street Journal article "Can You Still Spread Covid-19 After You Get Vaccinated?" (you can google it)

 

"Do the Covid vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus, or do they just protect you from getting sick?

Scientists don’t know yet—and the uncertainty has big implications during the rollout of the vaccines.

Pfizer and Moderna, the companies that developed the vaccines authorized in the U.S. so far, say their vaccines are about 95% effective at preventing people from getting sick with Covid symptoms. But there’s not enough evidence yet on whether the vaccines also prevent asymptomatic infection and transmission. 

The companies say research is ongoing to determine the answer. "

 

I suggest that you get in touch with Pfizer and Moderna and tell them what you know so they stop wasting time and effort.

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

From the Wall Street Journal article "Can You Still Spread Covid-19 After You Get Vaccinated?" (you can google it)

 

"Do the Covid vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus, or do they just protect you from getting sick?

Scientists don’t know yet—and the uncertainty has big implications during the rollout of the vaccines.

Pfizer and Moderna, the companies that developed the vaccines authorized in the U.S. so far, say their vaccines are about 95% effective at preventing people from getting sick with Covid symptoms. But there’s not enough evidence yet on whether the vaccines also prevent asymptomatic infection and transmission. 

The companies say research is ongoing to determine the answer. "

 

I suggest that you get in touch with Pfizer and Moderna and tell them what you know so they stop wasting time and effort.

That's exactly what I said!  We don't fully know, but there's research indicating you can still get sick (5%), thus, can still shed.  They're well aware of this.

[tomauasia]

15 hours ago, shackleton said:

 

Finally the Tourist Board wakes up to how much money and jobs  are  being  lost on no Tourism 

Hotels restaurants bars and most businesses associated with tourism going bust this happens when one puts all their eggs in one basket 

They need to diversify to attract the tourist back 

Smart gov monitor situations. And the Thai gov will be no different. Your dream of running into there country with out ASQ will not happen until WHO make a formal announcement and there is a global registration system in place. 

[Cabra]

On 12/27/2020 at 1:01 PM, Thaiwrath said:

Surely if you want to get the confidence of the people, you have to give them as much information as possible.

Hiding anything makes people skeptical, and doesn't look good to the people. 

 

On 12/27/2020 at 1:14 PM, ThailandRyan said:

Someone came across the border, porous as it is, could be a foreigner, could be a migrant worker, or it could be a Thai trying to skirt the quarantine for fear or for reprisals.  Who knows without any clarity in the story as of yet.  However, I am sure someone will be along soon to criticise what I have written and show me the error of my ways.....lol

 

[cdemundo]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

That's exactly what I said!  We don't fully know, but there's research indicating you can still get sick (5%), thus, can still shed.  They're well aware of this.

The question is not can sick people infect others (can sick people shed?).  The question is can asymptomatic people who have been vaccinated (but did not develop symptoms, right? asymptomatic? not sick?) still transmit the virus. This is unknown and this is what is of concern.  Which is not what you said or exactly what you are saying now.  You said "Even after the jabs, you can still shed."  Which you support by saying some people have symptoms (get sick) after the jab.  You don't seem to have the question of post vaccination asymptomatic transmission very clear in your mind.

 

Additionally, 95% efficacy does not mean that 5% of vaccinated people get sick. In the Pfizer unvaccinated group there were 162 infections out of 21830 subjects; 162/ 21830 x 100 = 0.74% so the unvaccinated group had fewer than 1% rate of infections.

 

So you don't get 5% infections in a group of people who have been vaccinated with a 95% efficacious vaccine.  A rate of 5% infections would be worse than the unvaccinated rate.  The 95% efficacy means it reduces the number of infections by 95% so the vaccinated group in the Pfizer trial had 5% of 0.74% infections or 8 infections in a group of 21830 subjects.

 

You don't seem to have made much of an effort to understand the results of the trials or to clarify the questions at hand in your mind.

 

The thing that you said that was correct is that after having the jab a person should still follow precautions.  You are right about that.

 

I will yield the floor to you since I doubt you will accept any kind of clarification.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

https://fortune.com/2020/12/22/covid-vaccine-infectious-face-masks-transmission/

It’s surprising, but experts agree: The tens of thousands of people being vaccinated against the coronavirus right now may still be able to carry and transmit the SARS-CoV-2 virus to others, despite being well-protected against the symptoms of COVID-19 themselves. That means they must still wear masks and practice social distancing to protect those around them.

 

“We still have yet to learn how much infectivity is impacted by vaccination, thereby producing protection for those I am in contact with, not just for myself, when I receive a vaccine,” says Dr. Janet Baseman, a public health expert at the University of Washington.

[zzzzz]

12 hours ago, bangon04 said:

Who believes that thai hotels are making money from the ASQ scheme?? They persist with it... unless you are comparing it with zero occupancy

get real>>
V S    making as much as they would IF there were 2 million ++ /month arriving in country>>>