Tourism chiefs call for foreigners vaccinated against COVID-19 to be allowed to enter Thailand

[EricTh]

Just as those Covid-free cert can be faked, those vaccine cert can also be faked if it is issued by anyone. That's why there are so many people who are 'certified' to be Covid-free but actually tested positive on arrival in Thailand.

 

I don't see the point of this unless it is regulated by strict authorities.

[shdmn]

20 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Just as those Covid-free cert can be faked, those vaccine cert can also be faked if it is issued by anyone. That's why there are so many people who are 'certified' to be Covid-free but actually tested positive on arrival in Thailand.

 

I don't see the point of this unless it is regulated by strict authorities.

Why would anyone go through all the trouble to get fake documents and risk getting caught and/or sick and/or possible long term side effects when they could just, you know, just get the vaccine?   If someone would rather go through all that trouble and risk instead that's just sad and they should seek help.

Edited January 15, 2021 by shdmn

[NB1986]

Maybe they will add only those who received Sinovac can enter the LOS to support their beloved Chinese brothers.

[sezze]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

Just as those Covid-free cert can be faked, those vaccine cert can also be faked if it is issued by anyone. That's why there are so many people who are 'certified' to be Covid-free but actually tested positive on arrival in Thailand.

 

I don't see the point of this unless it is regulated by strict authorities.

Thats a official paper you are messing with . If you get caught , and remember there isnt only a paper but also a database , then you could face very serious consequences . You can try a fake passport 1st , and see how well this goes for you ...

[aldriglikvid]

Are we not yet able to produce a test that measure if you have the virus 'developing' in the body? I'm obviously not familiar with the mechanics of the virus (as you can see), but I'm curious to know why we can't see if the virus is atleast in early/late stage. A test showing negative day 1, day 4, day 6, day 9, day 12 but then suddenly positive on day 13. Has....it ever happened? 

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, shdmn said:

Why would anyone go through all the trouble to get fake documents and risk getting caught and/or sick and/or possible long term side effects when they could just, you know, just get the vaccine?   If someone would rather go through all that trouble and risk instead that's just sad and they should seek help.

 

Not everyone wants to take the vaccine. There're reports of side-effects or adverse reactions.

 

Furthermore, not everyone can get a hold on the vaccine when you are not in the priority list. There is a many months wait for the vaccine.

 

You can get fake bank documents,  fake certs in this world, it's just a piece of paper.

 

Only thing is you can't fake passport because of security features there.

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by EricTh

[shdmn]

40 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Not everyone wants to take the vaccine. There're reports of side-effects or adverse reactions.

Furthermore, not everyone can get a hold on the vaccine when you are not in the priority list. There is a many months wait for the vaccine.

You can get fake bank documents,  fake certs in this world, it's just a piece of paper.

 

Only thing is you can't fake passport because of security features there.

 

vaccinE BAd

 

Best of luck with that 'piece of paper'.

 

Quote

Section 265. Punishment

 

Whoever, forges a document of right or official document, shall be punished with imprisonment of six months to five years and fined of one thousand to ten thousand Baht.

It may not even be a piece of paper.  IATA and others are working on an electronically verifiable system.

Edited January 15, 2021 by shdmn

[sezze]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

 

Not everyone wants to take the vaccine. There're reports of side-effects or adverse reactions.

 

Furthermore, not everyone can get a hold on the vaccine when you are not in the priority list. There is a many months wait for the vaccine.

 

You can get fake bank documents,  fake certs in this world, it's just a piece of paper.

 

Only thing is you can't fake passport because of security features there.

 

There are also reports that people get sick or die from the virus ... in a amount then is 1000's of times more then for the vaccine .

Yes , there is a waiting line , and possibly some people cannot have the vaccine because of health things , like pregnant woman . This should be a temporary measure . Non vaccinated can do what is going on now , vaccinated do not need the 14d quarantine , a negative test would be enough . Covid wont go away , but if enough people are vaccinated , then it wont be a big problem anymore .

[Marknreston]

If you have been vaccinated AND you have tested negative within 72 hours of departure, which is still a requirement, then quarantine is superfluous and should be eliminated 

[sirineou]

24 minutes ago, Marknreston said:

If you have been vaccinated AND you have tested negative within 72 hours of departure, which is still a requirement, then quarantine is superfluous and should be eliminated 

Absolutely!! and eliminate the need for covid insurance . or make it 95% less expensive since the vaccine is 95% effective and you only have a 5% chance of getting covid. 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

8 hours ago, RR2020 said:

Another mutation........scientists are scared again.   Big issue with RNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna).

 

UK has stopped entry from a number of countries now to stop this new "Brazil variant"

 

Covid: UK's ban on South America and Portugal travellers comes into force - BBC News

 

.

They say this new variant will be the #1 strain found in the US within 60 days.

 

SCARY!!!!

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

Not everyone wants to take the vaccine. There're reports of side-effects or adverse reactions.

 

Furthermore, not everyone can get a hold on the vaccine when you are not in the priority list. There is a many months wait for the vaccine.

 

You can get fake bank documents,  fake certs in this world, it's just a piece of paper.

 

Only thing is you can't fake passport because of security features there.

 

What you're publicly suggesting is a violation of the law.  I'd be careful posting that on social media.

 

As mentioned above, there's a good chance it will be an app that ties into a database.  Not just a piece of paper.  So it will be close to impossible to fake.

 

As for the jab, don't post misinformation.  The side effects are few and not many are getting adverse reactions. 

 

2 million are now dead.  And it's going to get worse.  We need to man up and deal with this virus.  Whatever it takes.  We're all in this together.

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

What you're publicly suggesting is a violation of the law.  I'd be careful posting that on social media.

 

As mentioned above, there's a good chance it will be an app that ties into a database.  Not just a piece of paper.  So it will be close to impossible to fake.

 

As for the jab, don't post misinformation.  The side effects are few and not many are getting adverse reactions. 

 

2 million are now dead.  And it's going to get worse.  We need to man up and deal with this virus.  Whatever it takes.  We're all in this together.

 

IMO - Qatar is an excellent example of digitising this information into an app tied into a data-base.

 

The Etiraz app holds a QR code, the colour alters depending on your risk profile. 

 

Entry into Qatar is not possible without the App. 

The QR code on the app for entrants to Qatar is automatically coded Yellow for the in quarantine. 

The QR code turns green for those who’ve completed quarantine and had a negative Covid-19 RT PCR test result

The QR code turns grey for those who may have been exposed through track and trace to someone with Covid-19.

The QR code turns red for those who’ve tested positive for Covid-19

 

An app such as this could easily also register if you have had a Covid-19 Vaccine (and also register which one).

Vaccines are being taken twice (12 weeks apart for the Pfiezer vaccine in the UK) - such an app could show a two phase colour change at each stage of the vaccine. 

The QR code is also a data set of a patients / holders Covid-19 record and details. 

 

This is the best such app I’ve seen out there.

This is something I believe would be extremely useful for those who wish to travel around freely.

The ’tin-foil-hatters’ of course can simply choose to stay at home !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

26 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

IMO - Qatar is an excellent example of digitising this information into an app tied into a data-base.

 

The Etiraz app holds a QR code, the colour alters depending on your risk profile. 

 

Entry into Qatar is not possible without the App. 

The QR code on the app for entrants to Qatar is automatically coded Yellow for the in quarantine. 

The QR code turns green for those who’ve completed quarantine and had a negative Covid-19 RT PCR test result

The QR code turns grey for those who may have been exposed through track and trace to someone with Covid-19.

The QR code turns red for those who’ve tested positive for Covid-19

 

An app such as this could easily also register if you have had a Covid-19 Vaccine (and also register which one).

Vaccines are being taken twice (12 weeks apart for the Pfiezer vaccine in the UK) - such an app could show a two phase colour change at each stage of the vaccine. 

The QR code is also a data set of a patients / holders Covid-19 record and details. 

 

This is the best such app I’ve seen out there.

This is something I believe would be extremely useful for those who wish to travel around freely.

The ’tin-foil-hatters’ of course can simply choose to stay at home !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like 9/11, this pandemic is forever going to change the way we travel.  And live. Sucks. 

[shdmn]

5 hours ago, sezze said:

There are also reports that people get sick or die from the virus ... in a amount then is 1000's of times more then for the vaccine .

Yes , there is a waiting line , and possibly some people cannot have the vaccine because of health things , like pregnant woman . This should be a temporary measure . Non vaccinated can do what is going on now , vaccinated do not need the 14d quarantine , a negative test would be enough . Covid wont go away , but if enough people are vaccinated , then it wont be a big problem anymore .

I think the odds are even bigger than that.  Maybe 10,000 times more.  But vAccInE BAd BeTTer off FoRGinG DOCUmENTs. ????

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by shdmn

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

What you're publicly suggesting is a violation of the law.  I'd be careful posting that on social media.

 

As mentioned above, there's a good chance it will be an app that ties into a database.  Not just a piece of paper.  So it will be close to impossible to fake.

 

As for the jab, don't post misinformation.  The side effects are few and not many are getting adverse reactions. 

 

2 million are now dead.  And it's going to get worse.  We need to man up and deal with this virus.  Whatever it takes.  We're all in this together.

 

I'm not advocating but stating there are loopholes. Was there a 'database' tied to the Covid free-cert?

 

I don't think so and see no evidence of this from the reports here... that's why some people were tested positive when they arrived in Thailand.

 

Was there any trusted regulated bodies where one can get the Covid-free cert ? No, any private 'doctors' can issue them and is open to abuse.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by EricTh

[Jeffr2]

21 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

I'm not advocating but stating there are loopholes. Was there a 'database' tied to the Covid free-cert?

 

I don't think so and see no evidence of this from the reports here... that's why some people were tested positive when they arrived in Thailand.

 

Was there any trusted regulated bodies where one can get the Covid-free cert ? No, any private 'doctors' can issue them and is open to abuse.

 

I think you're missing the point.  This is a developing situation.  From what I've read, an app will be coming out that will be tied to a database that shows if you've been jabbed.

 

Did you see @richard_smith237 post above?

 

A few of thousands of articles about this.  Still a developing situation.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/27/tech/coronavirus-vaccine-passport-apps/index.html

 

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210114/apps-to-let-travelers-others_show_covid_19_status

[James105]

If the vaccines give you additional freedoms then this is going to <deleted> off a lot of youngsters who do not get badly affected by catching the virus, as they are (rightly) at the bottom of every single countries list of priorities to get a vaccination and it may take a year or two before they get their turn.    These youngsters have been sacrificing the best year(s) of their lives (not to mention their prospects and/or jobs) to protect the older folk and if their reward is to then see the older folk being able to jolly it up on holidays whilst they are still not allowed to as they cannot get a jab feels highly unfair to me.    

[noosard]

18 minutes ago, James105 said:

If the vaccines give you additional freedoms then this is going to <deleted> off a lot of youngsters who do not get badly affected by catching the virus, as they are (rightly) at the bottom of every single countries list of priorities to get a vaccination and it may take a year or two before they get their turn.    These youngsters have been sacrificing the best year(s) of their lives (not to mention their prospects and/or jobs) to protect the older folk and if their reward is to then see the older folk being able to jolly it up on holidays whilst they are still not allowed to as they cannot get a jab feels highly unfair to me.    

Not all countries 

Indonesia has said they will vaccinate 18 to 59 year olds first

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

If the vaccines give you additional freedoms then this is going to <deleted> off a lot of youngsters who do not get badly affected by catching the virus, as they are (rightly) at the bottom of every single countries list of priorities to get a vaccination and it may take a year or two before they get their turn.    These youngsters have been sacrificing the best year(s) of their lives (not to mention their prospects and/or jobs) to protect the older folk and if their reward is to then see the older folk being able to jolly it up on holidays whilst they are still not allowed to as they cannot get a jab feels highly unfair to me.    

It's not just older folk they're protecting.  Many younger people get sick, and suffer long term consequences.  Sure, not as many as the old and the sick, but they still get sick and die.

 

And even with a jab, you can still shed the virus and get others sick.  We're not through this yet.

[elgenon]

23 hours ago, sezze said:

shhhtt , if i can enter without asq , because i got my vaccination , i cannot complain . 1st get the numbers under control , since in most parts of europe they arent . If they work , we might still see high numbers next 2 months but the hospitals admissions and deaths should be down a lot . Not i do not care about the Thai population , but if we get vaccinated and it works ... we can get at least get a good cutback on the asq time, maybe even to 0 ( maybe a test will be enough ) .

I'm on your side. i want to go. A test won't say if you are a carrier.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 1/13/2021 at 11:28 AM, kotsak said:

He didn't get the memo ????

 

They keep forgetting that the vaccine is to protect you from getting sick, not to stop the spread.

That's not quite true though, is it? Although preventing serious illness and death were the only outcomes that were analysed in the clinical studies so far, the various vaccines were all designed to invoke a robust immune response that should also reduce, if not eliminate transmission of the disease as well.

 

All the vaccine manufacturers have said that the early indications are that the vaccines probably do reduce transmission, it's just that the data hasn't been collected and analysed yet, that will conclusively show this.

Edited January 16, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 1/13/2021 at 10:36 AM, tifino said:

... and then they cop an incoming carrier who's vaxx doesn't cover for the new strain 

There's no evidence that any of the variants encountered so far, will render the current vaccines ineffective. There are only "concerns" that this might be the case.

 

If it emerges that any of these variations do elude the current vaccines it is literally the work of only a couple of days to tweak vaccine constructs such as the mRNA or viral vector types to incorporate the genome sequence of the spike protein for any new variant that might require it.

 

That's one of the massive benefits of these new vaccine technologies, they provide an underlying and effective vaccine platform that is very easily and quickly customizable simply by replacing one tiny snippet of genetic code within the construct, with another.

 

The article below from National Geographic talks about this.

 

Existing vaccines should work against new coronavirus variants

[RR2020]

There seems to be a staggering amount of posts from people who dont travel and have been sat in their homes for the past year.

 

I travel a lot, am still travelling now.

 

Why do you think so many people are turning up in Quarantine around the world and infected with Covid.......even though they have a PCR negative certificate ???????????

 

Answer :   A technician carries out the test.  Its 1 on 1.  Nobody supervises.  If you are in a government testing station......they WILL put the swab on your tonsils and rub it on your tonsils for a good 5 to 10 seconds and then up your nose, to the rear and wiggle it around for 10 seconds.

 

If you go to a private clinic..........and you need to travel so you need a negative PCR......some technicians will touch your throat with the swab for half a second then rub it just inside the nostril for half a second and test over..........this pretty much guarantees a negative PCR test even if you are positive.

 

So the whole system is open to abuse.........and why so many "negative PCR tested people" end up being tested on arrival and are positive.

 

So thats why PCR testing fails...........

 

 

Vaccine certification will also fail, as it is open to abuse...........the moment any private hospitals start selling vaccines then the system fails, and anyone can, via paying money, get a certificate to say they are vaccinated.

 

If you have a certificate from "PiBar Surgery" in Nakhon Nowhere how does Itialian border control know its real or fake ?  Or did you have the vaccine or not ? Did you just pay for the vaccine but not have it as you dont want it......but got the certificate and the doctor kept the vaccine to sell to the next person ?  A lot of anit-vax people may do just that.....pay for it......but tell the nurse no thanks, dont want it.....you keep it.........just give me the certificate on my medical record I had the jab.

 

Are we going to video record all jabs as proof with an observer and witness ????

 

Come on..........the whole system will be totally abused which is why App Developers are keen to promote their Apps.........but governments are not interested in this "vaccine certified" system.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 1/13/2021 at 11:41 AM, AmySeeker said:

When vaccines give efficiency figure - what does that mean ? Is it the rate of those catching it ?

It's the percentage of the people that tested positive for CoViD-19 in a given study, that belonged to the placebo group.

 

So if for example in a clinical trial, you  had 200 people who tested positive with 190 of those in the placebo group and only 10 in the experimental (or treatment) group, that is considered to show 95% efficacy for the vaccine.

 

It also depends what clinical outcome you are assessing. For instance in all the clinical trials of the Pfizer, Oxford and Moderna vaccines no-one in the treatment arm of the trial became seriously ill or needed hospitalisation. So you could say that while these vaccines may only be 70 - 95% effective in preventing any illness at all (depending on which one you're talking about) all them are 100% effective in preventing serious illness.

Edited January 16, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[RR2020]

I will tell you what will likely happen.

 

In every country they will vaccinate the over 60 year olds and all at risk sick people.

 

Once they have done this the chance of Covid killing anyone will fall to less than the flu.

 

At that point they will suddenly say "Ok......lockdowns over.........no need..........not dangerous anymore...........off you go".

 

Billions of people under 60 will then say "<deleted>........you've locked us down for 2 years and now you say its all over dont worry anymore.........because you have vaccinated all the over 60's and sick people only..................."

 

The moment you have all the over 60's and sick people vaccinated the IFR will fall well below normal flu.  It will become a joke, all those vaccinated will demand lockdowns lifted as they are vaccinated and should not have to be locked down anymore. 

 

All the not vaccinated under 60's will scream how dare all these old vaccinated people now want lockdowns ended when they were the ones demanding lockdowns before they had the jab.

 

All will be a massive mess.............. lots of arguments, lots of finger pointing.............welcome to 2021.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, RR2020 said:

I will tell you what will likely happen.

 

In every country they will vaccinate the over 60 year olds and all at risk sick people.

 

Once they have done this the chance of Covid killing anyone will fall to less than the flu.

 

At that point they will suddenly say "Ok......lockdowns over.........no need..........not dangerous anymore...........off you go".

 

Billions of people under 60 will then say "<deleted>........you've locked us down for 2 years and now you say its all over dont worry anymore.........because you have vaccinated all the over 60's and sick people only..................."

 

The moment you have all the over 60's and sick people vaccinated the IFR will fall well below normal flu.  It will become a joke, all those vaccinated will demand lockdowns lifted as they are vaccinated and should not have to be locked down anymore. 

 

All the not vaccinated under 60's will scream how dare all these old vaccinated people now want lockdowns ended when they were the ones demanding lockdowns before they had the jab.

 

All will be a massive mess.............. lots of arguments, lots of finger pointing.............welcome to 2021.

I don't think the under 60's in the US or Europe have been locked down.  Thus, the skyrocketing infection rates.

 

We're all in this together and NO easy answers.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 1/13/2021 at 8:39 PM, hioctane said:

95% efficacy means if 100 people took the vaccine, 5 still got infected. 

That's not quite accurate. It means that in a clinical trial of the vaccine (typically involving tens of thousands of people), when a certain number of people tested positive, 95% of those testing positive were in the placebo group.

 

As a number of people have pointed out, the true efficacy rate in the real world will only be known in the future as vaccination becomes more widespread and further data is collected.

Edited January 16, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[tifino]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

There's no evidence that any of the variants encountered so far, will render the current vaccines ineffective. There are only "concerns" that this might be the case.

 

If it emerges that any of these variations do elude the current vaccines it is literally the work of only a couple of days to tweak vaccine constructs such as the mRNA or viral vector types to incorporate the genome sequence of the spike protein for any new variant that might require it.

 

That's one of the massive benefits of these new vaccine technologies, they provide an underlying and effective vaccine platform that is very easily and quickly customizable simply by replacing one tiny snippet of genetic code within the construct, with another.

 

The article below from National Geographic talks about this.

 

Existing vaccines should work against new coronavirus variants

 ???? 

[AmySeeker]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I don't think the under 60's in the US or Europe have been locked down.  Thus, the skyrocketing infection rates.

 

 

Appologise for this. I went through a very harsh lockdown.