Jump to content

No Entity For Community - Is is legal for someone to live inside the community pool toilet room?


Recommended Posts

On 1/13/2021 at 10:53 AM, Thomas J said:

2. The president has a friend who she installed as "security" for the community.  Several people have expressed displeasure with him and want him replaced.  She indicated that she can not replace him because we never established a job description and if he is terminated the community could be sued and liable for a large severance.  I find that hard to believe but does anyone know if there is such a "job guarantee" law here in Thailand.  In the USA you are unless under contract an "at will" employee that can be terminated without cause at will. 

 

When an employee is properly registered as an employee, they fall under Thai labor laws, and those can be quite surprising for a US citizen. For instance, once the employee has been employed for more than 3 months, they are entitled to a month's salary if they are let go. If they work for one year, they are entitled to three months. And after five years, they are entitled to an entire year's salary! I cannot remember the exact numbers, so please forgive me if I am not correct on the exact time frames and severance, but it does make it very expensive to let employees go. This is why employers often take measures to encourage employees to quit.

 

I believe this will only apply in cases where the employee has an employment contract, and is registered with social security. I could be wrong about that.

 

That said, a proper employee is typically hired under an employment contract, and this contract spells out the employee's job, responsibilities, time off, etc. This contract is often drafted in a way by the employer that makes it possible to fire employees that do not stick to the letter of that contract. But, this does require that the employer document the issues, as well as provide notices to the employee allowing them to correct the problems. In other words, if it can be quite involved.

 

If there was no contract, then it is likely the employee was never registered, and dismissing them would be straightforward. Even if they are contracted and registered, it may be worth the expense of dismissing them and paying the severance, since it is likely not a large amount.

 

For a US citizen, it is easiest to think of it as a "union job".

Edited by timendres
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, bradiston said:
On 1/13/2021 at 2:53 PM, Thomas J said:

Live inside a gated community.  Like most associations there is always a controversy over the collection of community fees and how they are spent. At present, the person charged with being president of the association is not a homeowner within the community but rather is paying the mortgage and living in the home that is in her aunts name.  As a result it is "said" she can not form a legal entity.  Is this true? 

 

1. There has been disagreement since this person collects the community fees only in cash and refuses to provide any accounting of how monies are spent.  There is no bank account in the name of the community and fees from certain properties that are bank owned are transmitted into the presidents personal account.  Is that legal

 

2. The president has a friend who she installed as "security" for the community.  Several people have expressed displeasure with him and want him replaced.  She indicated that she can not replace him because we never established a job description and if he is terminated the community could be sued and liable for a large severance.  I find that hard to believe but does anyone know if there is such a "job guarantee" law here in Thailand.  In the USA you are unless under contract an "at will" employee that can be terminated without cause at will. 

3.  The president unilaterally made the decision to allow this security guard to live inside the toilet room that services the common pool.  Aside from the fact that that eliminates any toilet facilities at the pool does anyone know if there are any laws that prohibit living in a toilet room.  Here again in the USA many have attempted to live inside sheds, storage lockers, windowless basements etc and they are not allowed since they do not meet the ordinances required to be allowed for living spaces.  If it is against the law, what agency in Thailand would enforce it?

 

Find a lawyer, one that will take a case against a Thai. Maybe hard to find, but an overseas law firm used to handling "farang affairs" would take this, I'm sure. Combine with other residents if possible. The whole thing sounds completely cockeyed.

Expand  

Unless you (or your Thai wife) owns property in this development your best plan is to move on / get away from this scenario.

 

The items you list re certainly not normal but getting them changed is probably not possible, there's too much 'cross-relationships' involved. Plus many of the Thai residents? owners? probably have a strong attitude of don't complain / don't start conflict.

 

We had serious issued in a condo we owned in Bkk. 99% Thai owners, most of them knew there were inappropriate things going on (for years) about money/no receipts/no accounting/no proper approvals for expenditure all handled by one owner. If there was any discussion very quickly there were comments like, 'but she's a good friend to the old lady who is her neighbor' and similar and subject dropped.

 

Plenty of other places to live. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, timendres said:

 

When an employee is properly registered as an employee, they fall under Thai labor laws, and those can be quite surprising for a US citizen. For instance, once the employee has been employed for more than 3 months, they are entitled to a month's salary if they are let go. If they work for one year, they are entitled to three months. And after five years, they are entitled to an entire year's salary! I cannot remember the exact numbers, so please forgive me if I am not correct on the exact time frames and severance, but it does make it very expensive to let employees go. This is why employers often take measures to encourage employees to quit.

 

I believe this will only apply in cases where the employee has an employment contract, and is registered with social security. I could be wrong about that.

 

That said, a proper employee is typically hired under an employment contract, and this contract spells out the employee's job, responsibilities, time off, etc. This contract is often drafted in a way by the employer that makes it possible to fire employees that do not stick to the letter of that contract. But, this does require that the employer document the issues, as well as provide notices to the employee allowing them to correct the problems. In other words, if it can be quite involved.

 

If there was no contract, then it is likely the employee was never registered, and dismissing them would be straightforward. Even if they are contracted and registered, it may be worth the expense of dismissing them and paying the severance, since it is likely not a large amount.

 

For a US citizen, it is easiest to think of it as a "union job".

This is Thailand....

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, timendres said:

If there was no contract, then it is likely the employee was never registered, and dismissing them would be straightforward

There is no contract.  They were talking about giving him a "contract" with a job description and if he failed to perform his duties as prescribed then terminate him.  I doubt he is registered but don't know.  

I found out yesterday that the community has been violating Thai regulations.  The committee has operated for years without forming a legal entity and correctly electing a juristic person.  The Land Office verified that yesterday and called the "chairperson" of the community informing her that she was violating the law, chastised her for going for years without properly forming an entity and that she was to report immediately..  So with that, I suspect that the security person was not registered.  I is paid in cash which would make it hard to document that he is or was ever properly employed.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, bradiston said:

I can't see you're going to get very far on your own. It'll more than likely be a huge amount of running around with massive language barrier problems, not to mention cultural. For me, a lawyer would be the only way forward.

Fortunately my girl friend who owns the home is Thai.  Meeting at the land office went far better than expected.  The person in charge was infuriated that there was no legal entity and that the person had been violating Thai regulations for years.  He said a community has only 6 months following the formation of a governing body to register that with the land office.  He personally called the "chairperson" and scolder her for breaking the law and told her she had to get in to correct it within the next 24 hours. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Fortunately my girl friend who owns the home is Thai.  Meeting at the land office went far better than expected.  The person in charge was infuriated that there was no legal entity and that the person had been violating Thai regulations for years.  He said a community has only 6 months following the formation of a governing body to register that with the land office.  He personally called the "chairperson" and scolder her for breaking the law and told her she had to get in to correct it within the next 24 hours. 

Brilliant! Great result and yah boo sucks to all those naysayers about TIT, forget it, move on, give up. There ARE decent people in authority in my experience, who will help you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not make a point of using the poolside toilet? You are paying for it in your services.

 

I don't know if this would work, but maybe you could get a lawyer to write that he is withholding payment for services (in escrow on your behalf) until a bank account is provided by the President, as you need proof of payment or receipts for tax purposes.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, phetphet said:

Why not make a point of using the poolside toilet? You are paying for it in your services.

 

I don't know if this would work, but maybe you could get a lawyer to write that he is withholding payment for services (in escrow on your behalf) until a bank account is provided by the President, as you need proof of payment or receipts for tax purposes.

 

There are several issues. The first and most important is that there is no legal entity and the person collecting the community monies is doing so only in cash and paying whatever expenses in cash. We can identify that she is taking in upwards of 50,O00 thb per month but only has two significant expenses amounting to only 19000 thb per month. She provides no written reports and of course with everything in cash no verifiable receipts

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

There are several issues. The first and most important is that there is no legal entity and the person collecting the community monies is doing so only in cash and paying whatever expenses in cash. We can identify that she is taking in upwards of 50,O00 thb per month but only has two significant expenses amounting to only 19000 thb per month. She provides no written reports and of course with everything in cash no verifiable receipts

Forgive me for not understanding this, but if there is no legal entity, what could happen if you withhold all payments? Pretty sure they are not allowed to cut off your electricity or water, and if there is no legal entity, who could  sue you for the money?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, phetphet said:

Forgive me for not understanding this, but if there is no legal entity, what could happen if you withhold all payments? Pretty sure they are not allowed to cut off your electricity or water, and if there is no legal entity, who could  sue you for the money?

This is a housing village not a condo development.  Everyone has their own billing for things like electric, water, etc.  The community fees are for common area maintenance and security.  There are small bills for electric, water, pool maintenance etc.  In terms of suing, it is my understanding that if one would sue, it would be the person who represented themselves as a juristic person and collected the money from the homeowners.  That was taking money on false pretenses that they were operating within the law. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...