Extension based on retirement - income verification for UK folks and does it need to come into a Thai bank ?

[SGD]

If I go jump through the hoops and get a non imm O visa then I'm good for the first year due to proof of funds back in the UK when applying.

 

But when I want an extension based on 65k a month, do I actually have to prove where that 65k comes from ? If so, how ? as I own business and am not an employee.

 

Furthermore, do you have to have this 65k coming in every month ? I tend to just transfer £10k when I feel like it.

 

I don't like complicated hoops to jump through when there may be a simple way around it and yes, I know about parking 800k in the bank.

 

 

[fishtank]

A Non Imm O Visa will only get you a stay of 90 days.

When applying for a 12 month extension 65k has to be seen to enter the Thai bank every month.

Or have 800,000 in the bank or a combination of both.

[SGD]

10 minutes ago, fishtank said:

A Non Imm O Visa will only get you a stay of 90 days.

When applying for a 12 month extension 65k has to be seen to enter the Thai bank every month.

Or have 800,000 in the bank or a combination of both.

 

Not quite what it says on the Thai embassy website https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/84508-non-immigrant-visas

 

But this is about the first entry, where I'm pretty certain you don't need it to be going into a Thai bank as you are applying from the UK but on an extension, then whilst I see the 800k in the Thai bank precludes 800k in a UK bank but I don't see anywhere saying the 65k must come into a Thai account, only that you must have 65k.

 

Non-Immigrant Type O- A (Long Stay) 1 Year/Multiple entries 

 

• Printout of visa application form submitted online, with bar code

• Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months and at least 2 blank pages

• A medical certificate issued in the UK or Ireland or Thailand, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) which include Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Elephantiasis, drug addiction, third stage of Syphilis, and the certificate shall be valid for not more than three months.
• Certificate of criminal record clearance from the UK (ACRO, DBS, or issued by the police) or Ireland
• Financial evidence showing monthly income of not less than 65,000 THB (approx. £1,625) or having the current balance of 800,000 THB (approx. £20,000), e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, for at least 1 month
• Copy of evidence stating that applicants have insurance as per stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and health insurance of Thailand which has insurance money for outpatient not less than 40,000 Baht and for inpatient not less than 400,000 Baht. Please check < http://longstay.tgia.org> for more information regarding the insurance requirement.
•  

• If you wish to be accompanied by spouse, the marriage certificate will be attached. But your spouse will be granted Non-Immigrant “O” instead of “O-A”(Long Stay)
• Applicant must be of age 50 years old or over.

Note: 

- Please submit the originals of bank statement, criminal record check, and medical record, as well as one photocopy of each document. In case that an applicant could not submit the original documents, the Embassy will accept the photocopies which have been certified by a Notary Public officer or Solicitors.

- The consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary. 

 

[timendres]

The 65,000 baht must come into a Thai bank account each month. Some have reported issues if the deposits are not distinctly in each month (in other words, if your June deposit arrives on July 1st), but I think this depends very much on the office you are dealing with. Also, they will want to see that the deposit came from outside Thailand, which was a problem for some using TransferWise, which shows an internal transfer within Thailand for some banks.

[SGD]

2 minutes ago, timendres said:

The 65,000 baht must come into a Thai bank account each month. Some have reported issues if the deposits are not distinctly in each month (in other words, if your June deposit arrives on July 1st), but I think this depends very much on the office you are dealing with. Also, they will want to see that the deposit came from outside Thailand, which was a problem for some using TransferWise, which shows an internal transfer within Thailand for some banks.

 

Where is the source for this "must come into a Thai bank account" ?

 

This is one of my points, that I don't have a government reference.

 

Also, do you have to prove where the 65k comes from ? You used to, in the old days of getting the embassy to verify it but they don't do that anymore.

[fishtank]

10 minutes ago, SGD said:

 

Not quite what it says on the Thai embassy website https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/84508-non-immigrant-visas

 

But this is about the first entry, where I'm pretty certain you don't need it to be going into a Thai bank as you are applying from the UK but on an extension, then whilst I see the 800k in the Thai bank precludes 800k in a UK bank but I don't see anywhere saying the 65k must come into a Thai account, only that you must have 65k.

 

 

Non-Immigrant Type O- A (Long Stay) 1 Year/Multiple entries 

 

• Printout of visa application form submitted online, with bar code

• Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months and at least 2 blank pages

• A medical certificate issued in the UK or Ireland or Thailand, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) which include Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Elephantiasis, drug addiction, third stage of Syphilis, and the certificate shall be valid for not more than three months.
• Certificate of criminal record clearance from the UK (ACRO, DBS, or issued by the police) or Ireland
• Financial evidence showing monthly income of not less than 65,000 THB (approx. £1,625) or having the current balance of 800,000 THB (approx. £20,000), e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, for at least 1 month
• Copy of evidence stating that applicants have insurance as per stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and health insurance of Thailand which has insurance money for outpatient not less than 40,000 Baht and for inpatient not less than 400,000 Baht. Please check < http://longstay.tgia.org> for more information regarding the insurance requirement.
•  

• If you wish to be accompanied by spouse, the marriage certificate will be attached. But your spouse will be granted Non-Immigrant “O” instead of “O-A”(Long Stay)
• Applicant must be of age 50 years old or over.

Note: 

- Please submit the originals of bank statement, criminal record check, and medical record, as well as one photocopy of each document. In case that an applicant could not submit the original documents, the Embassy will accept the photocopies which have been certified by a Notary Public officer or Solicitors.

- The consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary. 

 

A Non O-A Visa is not the same as a Non Imm O Visa.

A Non O-A will get you up to 2 years entry providing the borders are open after your first 12 months.

[SGD]

3 minutes ago, fishtank said:

A Non O-A Visa is not the same as a Non Imm O Visa.

A Non O-A will get you up to 2 years entry providing the borders are open after your first 12 months.

 

That's my understanding, dodge out just before the first 12 months and then you get another 12 months.

[fishtank]

1 minute ago, SGD said:

 

That's my understanding, dodge out just before the first 12 months and then you get another 12 months.

Yep. providing that you can actually leave.

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, SGD said:

 

That's my understanding, dodge out just before the first 12 months and then you get another 12 months.

You confused members by stating a Non O in the first paragraph of your first post. which is entirely different from a Non O-A Visa. The Non O is valid for 90 days and permits a single 90 day entry.

The Non O-A is valid for 12 months and permits multiple entries and permits entries of 12 months on each entry during the validity of the Visa.

 

The validity of the Visa and the validity of your permission of stay are entirely separate from each other.

 

There is no requirements to keep funds in a Thai bank if using the Non O-A Visa for entries.

There is however a requirement to have a valid 100,000 USD Covid Health policy to cover the length of your stay.

 

Example:

Non O-A Visa valid from 12/1/2021 - 11/1/2022.

You can enter as many times as you like during the validity of the Visa and on each entry you will be permitted to stay for a 12 month period. If you enter just before the expiry date (11/1/2022) you will be permitted to stay for further12 months, (until 10/1/2023) but on the Visa expiry date the multi entry condition of the Visa also expires.

If you want to exit and re-enter after 11/1/2022 and between 10/1/2023 you can purchase a re-entry permit from your local Immigration office (single entry 1,000 baht, multiple entry 3,800 baht) to keep any remaining permission of stay valid. In other words on each entry using a re-entry permit you will be stamped in again until 10/1/23.

 

You can then apply for a new Non O-A Visa from the Thai Embassy, or, you can apply to extend that permission of stay for 1 year based on retirement at your local Immigration office, but now you must provide proof of funds or income transferred and held in a Thai bank account.

[Tanoshi]

45 minutes ago, SGD said:

Where is the source for this "must come into a Thai bank account" ?

 

This is one of my points, that I don't have a government reference.

Thai Embassies issue Visa and are governed by Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Thai Immigration issue extensions of stay once in the Country.

 

The conditions and requirements to obtain these extensions are not on Embassy websites (external to Thailand), but are contained in Police Orders issued by internal Immigration control.

There are a number of orders relating to extensions from an entry on an original Non O-A Visa based on retirement.

327-2557 (2014) - extension criteria & conditions Eng.pdf

Section 2.22 deals with the financial requirements for extensions based on retirement.

 

138-2557 (2019 )Supp Ev Income Eng.pdf

An update to 327-2557 financial requirements for extension applications based on Thai wife/family (section 2.18) and retirement (section 2.22) following the cessation of Embassy Income letters by the US, Australian and UK Embassies.

 

35-2561change327-2557Criteria(2019)Eng P.pdf

Another change to the criteria based on retirement.

 

548-2562.changed327-2557(2019)Eng-Thai searchable.pdf

An amendment requiring those who extend their permission of stay from a Non O-A Visa entry to provide additional evidence of a Health Insurance policy covering (400K inpatient, 40K outpatient) from a Thai approved Insurer.

 

(Not required for those who entered on an original Non O Visa).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[itsari]

Slightly off topic . Must the 65000 baht be before tax or after ? My pension from Norway is taxed at 15 percent and paid to the Norwegian state before being sent to my Thai bank account .

One other question , I have seen that you can have the option of paying tax to the Thailand State due to a double taxation agreement between Norway and Thailand . Anyone with knowledge on this subject ?

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, itsari said:

Must the 65000 baht be before tax or after ? My pension from Norway is taxed at 15 percent and paid to the Norwegian state before being sent to my Thai bank account .

Since you are from Norway you can get proof of income from your embassy instead of needing to prove your income by transfers into a Thai bank.

[itsari]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

Since you are from Norway you can get proof of income from your embassy instead of needing to prove your income by transfers into a Thai bank.

Thank you , useful information . I am a UK citizen that has lived in Norway for many years . That I am sure will still enable me to ask for the proof of income . Thanks again for your help

[rocky123]

For the last 15 years I have produced a letter from the Irish Embassy, stating my income of over 65k per month. The income is paid into my uk account and Immigration passed it without a prob, in the past years. Has this changed please. ? Many Thanks...ps.   read this and does not state that the 65000 has to be deposited in a Thai bank...... -Must be 50 years of age or over(3)Must have evidence of having income of no less than THB 65,000

[timendres]

14 minutes ago, rocky123 said:

For the last 15 years I have produced a letter from the Irish Embassy, stating my income of over 65k per month. The income is paid into my uk account and Immigration passed it without a prob, in the past years. Has this changed please. ? Many Thanks

 

An Embassy letter verifying your income is still adequate for an extension. The problem with, for example the US Embassy, was that they were simply witnessing an affidavit by the applicant stating that they had the required income, but there was no verification by the US Embassy. This is why Thai immigration was requesting that the US Embassy perform the verification, which they declined to do, thus resulting in Thai immigration refusing to accept affidavits and the US Embassy ceasing to issue them.

[timendres]

2 hours ago, SGD said:

Where is the source for this "must come into a Thai bank account" ?

This is one of my points, that I don't have a government reference.

 

I apologize, but I do not have a pointer to this exact requirement, but it has been confirmed by many posters here on TVF.

 

2 hours ago, SGD said:

Also, do you have to prove where the 65k comes from ? You used to, in the old days of getting the embassy to verify it but they don't do that anymore.

 

I do not believe immigration will require any proof of the source of this income, although individual immigration offices do seem to vary on their requirements. The only requirement that seems to be constant across all immigration offices is that the deposit must have a transaction code indicating that the source was international.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, itsari said:

Slightly off topic . Must the 65000 baht be before tax or after ? My pension from Norway is taxed at 15 percent and paid to the Norwegian state before being sent to my Thai bank account .

 

3 hours ago, itsari said:

Thank you , useful information . I am a UK citizen that has lived in Norway for many years . That I am sure will still enable me to ask for the proof of income . Thanks again for your help

As a UK citizen you'd need the Income letter from the British Embassy but they ceased supplying them in December 2018. (As did the US and Australian Embassies).

You'd therefore have to transfer 65K THB per month into a Thai bank account, or deposit 800K THB in a Thai bank account.

 

3 hours ago, itsari said:

One other question , I have seen that you can have the option of paying tax to the Thailand State due to a double taxation agreement between Norway and Thailand . Anyone with knowledge on this subject ?

The double taxation agreement means if your paying tax in a reciprocal  agreeable Country, then your taxed income from there isn't taxable again in another Country with whom the agreement is between.

In order to deregister from paying tax in Norway you'd need to open a tax file in Thailand and provide proof to the Norwegian government of paying tax in Thailand.

At only 15% tax deduction in Norway, I'd continue to pay tax there.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, timendres said:

The problem with, for example the US Embassy, was that they were simply witnessing an affidavit by the applicant stating that they had the required income, but there was no verification by the US Embassy. This is why Thai immigration was requesting that the US Embassy perform the verification, which they declined to do, thus resulting in Thai immigration refusing to accept affidavits and the US Embassy ceasing to issue them.

Not fully correct.

British citizens didn't complete an affidavit or a stat dec to obtain the Income letter.

We supplied documents as proof of income, so why did the British Embassy cease the Income letters then?

 

Embassies that still issue the Income letter only certify the letters, they don't verify them, because they can't.

[UKresonant]

6 hours ago, SGD said:

 

Not quite what it says on the Thai embassy website https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/84508-non-immigrant-visas

 

But this is about the first entry, where I'm pretty certain you don't need it to be going into a Thai bank as you are applying from the UK but on an extension, then whilst I see the 800k in the Thai bank precludes 800k in a UK bank but I don't see anywhere saying the 65k must come into a Thai account, only that you must have 65k.

 

 

Non-Immigrant Type O- A (Long Stay) 1 Year/Multiple entries 

 

• Printout of visa application form submitted online, with bar code

• Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months and at least 2 blank pages

• A medical certificate issued in the UK or Ireland or Thailand, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) which include Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Elephantiasis, drug addiction, third stage of Syphilis, and the certificate shall be valid for not more than three months.
• Certificate of criminal record clearance from the UK (ACRO, DBS, or issued by the police) or Ireland
• Financial evidence showing monthly income of not less than 65,000 THB (approx. £1,625) or having the current balance of 800,000 THB (approx. £20,000), e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, for at least 1 month
• Copy of evidence stating that applicants have insurance as per stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and health insurance of Thailand which has insurance money for outpatient not less than 40,000 Baht and for inpatient not less than 400,000 Baht. Please check < http://longstay.tgia.org> for more information regarding the insurance requirement.
•  

• If you wish to be accompanied by spouse, the marriage certificate will be attached. But your spouse will be granted Non-Immigrant “O” instead of “O-A”(Long Stay)
• Applicant must be of age 50 years old or over.

Note: 

- Please submit the originals of bank statement, criminal record check, and medical record, as well as one photocopy of each document. In case that an applicant could not submit the original documents, the Embassy will accept the photocopies which have been certified by a Notary Public officer or Solicitors.

- The consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary. 

 

 

When I looked at the O-A just before the insurance add-on happened

 

I asked about the Combo method on the O_A 

 

UK £ income of 50k+ THB equiv.

and UK £ deposit    200k THB equiv..

Embassy said they were looking for the deposit in a separate account from the one used for the income proof. Deposit element could be in a Thai Bank, if you had a letter from a Thai Bank confirming the Balance.

 

For the money being transferred to a Thailand account(s)

I see the transfer of the monthly amount to the Thai Bank, perhaps from a isolated home country account as  separate from the second issue of proving the "income" transfers are from a legitimate source. In fact I would try to avoid sending realtime income or pensions to Thailand, as it arises / in year, the reality of the source frequency and variation of amount, may not match what is required by "rule of the day" anyway.(just a preference I have formed after a lot of reading)

 

The Thai issued insurance for the 400/40k cover may not provide any actual insurance cover due to the small print saying you must have resided in Thailand for 6 months. Kinda like an extra added to the visa fee if going for it. 

 

......

[Jano22]

Wrong. They can. When i go to the Norwegian embassy i have to bring my history of pension, upon that they confirm it . 

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, Jano22 said:

Wrong. They can. When i go to the Norwegian embassy i have to bring my history of pension, upon that they confirm it . 

No, they take the income from your documents and supply a certified letter for Immigration.

To 'verify' your income, they'd need to confirm with your Pension providers that the documents your supplying are genuine and the amounts correct.

Due to Data Protection law your Insurance providers are not obliged to divulge any of your personal information to a third party, in fact they'd be in breach of the Act if they did and you could sue for a lot of money.

 

If you wish to speak to your Pension providers they'll take you through some security questions to authenticate you are who you say you are before discussing anything else.

[itsari]

14 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

As a UK citizen you'd need the Income letter from the British Embassy but they ceased supplying them in December 2018. (As did the US and Australian Embassies).

You'd therefore have to transfer 65K THB per month into a Thai bank account, or deposit 800K THB in a Thai bank account.

 

The double taxation agreement means if your paying tax in a reciprocal  agreeable Country, then your taxed income from there isn't taxable again in another Country with whom the agreement is between.

In order to deregister from paying tax in Norway you'd need to open a tax file in Thailand and provide proof to the Norwegian government of paying tax in Thailand.

At only 15% tax deduction in Norway, I'd continue to pay tax there.

Thank you for your help

[Peter Denis]

21 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

You confused members by stating a Non O in the first paragraph of your first post. which is entirely different from a Non O-A Visa. The Non O is valid for 90 days and permits a single 90 day entry.

The Non O-A is valid for 12 months and permits multiple entries and permits entries of 12 months on each entry during the validity of the Visa.

...

@SGD > Tanoshi correctly pointed out that your post is confusing by mixing Non Imm O and Non Imm O-A, and unclarity about initial Visa application and subsequent extension requirements.

Unless your questions have nonetheless been answered, it's probably best to open a new thread and reformulate your questions so that you can receive correct and relevant answers.

>> I did PM you a comprehensive Guideline document outlining all options in full detail for long-stay in Thailand when +50 years of age.  That document probably answers any questions you might have re your options.

[Chongalulu]

19 hours ago, timendres said:

 

I apologize, but I do not have a pointer to this exact requirement, but it has been confirmed by many posters here on TVF.

 

 

I do not believe immigration will require any proof of the source of this income, although individual immigration offices do seem to vary on their requirements. The only requirement that seems to be constant across all immigration offices is that the deposit must have a transaction code indicating that the source was international.

For the past 2 years (last extension 1 week ago) Korat only want to see funds ,irrespective of code,going into the account. I have brought in the fx transaction slips from the foreign exchange company as back up ,but they’ve paid scant attention to those. My amounts (which have been substantially in excess of 65k) have been at random and sometimes several times of the month . After initial paper checks at reception the officer did my extension in 15 minutes.

[Sheryl]

22 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

There is no requirements to keep funds in a Thai bank if using the Non O-A Visa for entries.

There is however a requirement to have a valid 100,000 USD Covid Health policy to cover the length of your stay.

 

 

 

the USD100k COVID policy is required for al entries into Thailand regardless of visa type

 

to get an O-A visa you must also have proof of general health insurance valid in Thailand that includes at least 400k baht inpatient and 40k baht outpatient cover. If it is an internationally issued policy there is a special certificate the insurer has to sign. Note that you cannot use foreign insurance to meet the requirement if you want to later do in-country extensions of stay. You'd have to either get a local policy approved by immigration or go back home and get a new O-A visa.

 

This requirement is why people usually prefer to come in on a 90 day non-O . they can get a one year extension of that without the insurance requirement.

[Pumpuynarak]

18 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Embassies that still issue the Income letter only certify the letters, they don't verify them, because they can't.

 

17 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

No, they take the income from your documents and supply a certified letter for Immigration.

To 'verify' your income, they'd need to confirm with your Pension providers that the documents your supplying are genuine and the amounts correct.

Due to Data Protection law your Insurance providers are not obliged to divulge any of your personal information to a third party, in fact they'd be in breach of the Act if they did and you could sue for a lot of money.

 

If you wish to speak to your Pension providers they'll take you through some security questions to authenticate you are who you say you are before discussing anything else.

 

My mate a Swiss national tells me the Swiss embassy will still supply pension income verification letters for Thai Immigration but he has to contact his pension provider in Switzerland each year and get them to send verification to the Swiss embassy in Bangkok. He then has to visit the Swiss embassy and collect the verification.

[chilly07]

If you tick the box "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" Transferwise will classify the transfer as FTT and all other embassies other than Australia USA and UK have no problem issuing income letters demonstrating the obstinacy and obduracy of the recalcitrant three!¹

[jacko45k]

Just now, chilly07 said:

If you tick the box "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" Transferwise will classify the transfer as FTT and all other embassies other than Australia USA and UK have no problem issuing income letters demonstrating the obstinacy and obduracy of the recalcitrant three!¹

Don't want to be too picky but ticking that box simply instructs Transferwise to use the same Thai bank that you use, and then your bank will tag it as a FTT transfer. That applies to Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn and TMB.... if you use another bank it will be going through one of these 3 and domestically transferred to yours and likely appear as a domestic transfer... 

 

[Pumpuynarak]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Don't want to be too picky but ticking that box simply instructs Transferwise to use the same Thai bank that you use, and then your bank will tag it as a FTT transfer. That applies to Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn and TMB.... if you use another bank it will be going through one of these 3 and domestically transferred to yours and likely appear as a domestic transfer... 

 

 

Yes indeed, that is why i changed to Bangkok bank from SCB.

[Adelphi]

I am a UK citizen with an O A visa (Retirement).  This morning applied in Jomtien (Pattaya) for a 1 year extension of stay.   I was asked for proof of income in the UK.  I provided my last months pensions statement which they were happy with.

 

I had a letter from my bank showing the payments from the UK into my Thai bank account for the last 12 months - all in excess of B 65k.  Immigration also wanted a letter from my bank confirming todays balance and so I had to go back to my Thai bank to get that - 10minutes away).  The Immigration Officer I was dealing with very helpfully wrote a note to my bank to explain what was required and told me not just bring it directly to him when I returned.  I am to collect my extension tomorrow.  All very straightforward.  I hope this information is of help.